Jake

The question about demotion or not is solely about what's going to produce the best outcome for Tim. The 2017 White Sox can sustain s***ty shortstop play. So if the Sox believe a demotion would be very bad for an already negative state of mind, keep him up here. If they think they can sell a demotion to AAA to Tim as something that's good for him and not a reflection of the Sox believing he's a terrible player, then consider that instead. The right move will be hard to know from the outside. With that said, he should start getting more frequent rest in the near term and by next season, he should have a short leash regardless of what may be going on emotionally/mentally.

I don't think Tim has earned the "lazy" label based on his full body of work. I think what we've seen recently is a player who has gotten his head stuck up in his ass because he's struggling to deal with his bad play. When your head's up your ass, you sometimes find yourself walking out of the box, angry at yourself instead of running out a grounder.

Cordell seems to be surprisingly talented for a "low ceiling" guy. He hit 19 homers in 107 games last year and 18 HR in 125 games the year before. He has 10 this year in 68 games. He's a 20+ HR/year bat who doesn't have major strikeout problems, is a good runner, and a solid defender in all 3 OF spots. His production in AAA this year tells us there really isn't much risk in terms of whether he's going to be a MLB player, though obviously there's never a guarantee about whether he will be a regular...it's the hardest thing to know for any prospect, of course.

You get a guy who is 100% cinch to make the major leagues, has a very good chance to be at worst a nice bench piece, but has realistic upside as a good everyday player. What the hell is the problem? You just traded Anthony Swarzak! The skeptics of these reliever deals always seem to think about the what if's based on the reliever pitching that good indefinitely into the future. Swarzak was 2 or 3 s***ty outings from losing all of his value. You have to get something for him and we got a real piece back for him.

If you never looked at the statistics and only read this site you'd think Collins had a .500 OPS

I felt that Trayce Thompson reaching the MLB was a pretty significant accomplishment for the Sox minor league system. He came in as a high school with major contact problems, dealt with persistent strikeout issues throughout the minors, but slowly but surely got his bat to an acceptable level. It also made him one of the few draft pick position players to make the majors in a long time and look like a major leaguer. He's joined now by Saladino and Sanchez, who were lower on talent by quite a bit but still had to be developed in our system. Engel is looking like he might be another player who we can say we improved as a system. He is one who has undeniably been a better minor league hitter than college hitter in spite of his inconsistency.

If they let Lackey bat again they've got to hit him

Can someone fill me in on Lackey's off field actions that are supposed to make me not like him? Not to say I would have liked him anyway, he just has one of those faces, you know.

Yeah the ump has no clue what he's doing. And what a weird game for Rodon...

QUOTE (StrykerSox @ Jul 25, 2017 -> 02:48 PM) Rodon is irrelevant. If our contention window starts in 2021, he won't even be here. Right now, we should focus on Moncada and Anderson, neither of whom look very good, at this moment. If we aren't contending by 2020, something has gone very wrong.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jul 24, 2017 -> 02:44 PM) Yoan looks a bit overmatched. Dude is always down 0-2. I honestly think he looks pretty good, but he's got a nasty habit of taking the first pitch every time. You will have some trouble when you're down 0-1 in every count

QUOTE (Lillian @ Jul 23, 2017 -> 03:37 PM) They better be. They cost the Sox one Super Star pitcher and another, pretty close to that. FWIW, I don't think they have to be superstars for the Sox to get what they needed out of those trades. Sox want not just good play (which is what the players they lost will give any team) but they need it at a particular time and a particular price. If the Sox weren't going to be good until 2019, then you'd be starting to get good right as your superstars are about to depart in free agency. With how things are shaping up now, Sox may have the players they got back hitting their stride and under control for many years at that point. Likewise, by 2019 or 2020 we could plausibly sign Sale or Quintana if that's what we needed to put us over the top. And of course there's the other players to consider as well. While I think having ten 1 WAR is not the equivalent of having one 10 WAR player, there's something to be said for having a glut of average to above average players rather than a couple of really good ones.

If Swarzak goes to LA, I'd like to get my old teammate Brock Stewart.

I was commenting to a friend last night how as soon as I get down on Anderson, he'll do one of those rangy grabs where he just turns his hips and fires off a hard strike to first while running sideways like it's the easiest thing. At the plate, the ball really flies when he squares it up and his swing just looks quick. Of course, as of late he rarely squares it up and as another poster said, really seems to be going up there without a plan. But I've grown more confident that the underlying talent is there—not just athleticism, but baseball talent.

I don't know how much of it is his grief, but he's clearly not in a good place mentally. It's easy to let the struggles pile on each other until you can't really play well anymore. I've been worried for a while that he's let the season get away, but I do worry that a demotion would be such a shock to the system that he might just flounder down there.

I like to imagine that Abreu was absolutely laying into the front office and Russo is just translating it into the company line.

Is Luis Robert not able to even visit the US to see the doctor without losing his tax benefit?

Kopech hasn't had a start with fewer than 2 BB. Looking like he'll beat that unless he has a rotten 8th inning (at 85 pitches, I suppose he'll go into the 8th).

As we eventually learned with Johnson, he had a bum arm. When I pitched in college, I know I would do well in fits and starts (while my stuff seemed to have regressed) before we realized there was a pretty substantial labrum tear that wasn't really showing on MRIs.

I'm not a huge fan of trading a guy like this who you have for 5 more seasons at little cost. You'd be extremely lucky to get someone as useful as he is in return.

QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 09:36 PM) I get that point but not throwing strikes in AAA is the same as not throwing strikes in A or AA. I still think the Sox called him up last year to show him that something he thought he was doing well would never work against MLB batters. I disagree with the bolded. It's true that if you can't throw strikes at all, it doesn't matter where you pitch. But if your command is marginal, it really matters what the level of competition is. Think about how many guys we've seen with good command in AAA get called up to MLB and suddenly struggle with walks. So what I would say is that his command issues in AAA *might* be a sign that he is simply incapable of strike-throwing, but it might also be a sign that he's not ready for the level or there's something else going on. QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 09:41 PM) All you have to do is see the stuff he's throwing and it's pretty evident he's a long shot to perform well in the majors. His stuff has declined too much to make up for his mediocre command. Stephens had the injury issue, but unlike Fulmer, at least he's consistently getting AA hitters out I've had limited ability to see him in AAA this year. I know that I've seen Carson Fulmer pitch with stuff that was plenty good enough to be a good MLB starter. I generally don't assume that if the stuff declines in a 23 year old without a known injury, that this is a permanent change. It's concerning, and maybe indicative of an injury, but when I think about Carson Fulmer I assume that at least with the right coaching and training, he has access to the good stuff we've all seen before. When prospects regress, I want to know why. There's a chance that there was no regression; the player was always bad and his previous stats were lying to us. So looking at Fulmer, I have to ask, were his stats lying to us? In 2016, he started off terribly. He pitched 46 innings over his first 10 starts, with a BB/9 and K/9 each about 7.00 to go with 6 homers allowed and a near 6.00 ERA. He threw strikes about 57% of the time. Bad! Preceding his callup to the majors, he improved. In 41 IP over 7 starts, he had a 3.51 ERA, 11.8 K/9, and 3.7 BB/9. He allowed 1 homer in that time and threw 64% strikes. I think it's fair to say that this good run of pitching was probably not a fluke, especially considering the high K rate. Then he gets called up to the majors and I don't think we need to retread that ground. In his first start in AAA, he went down and got shelled in a 1 inning start. After that, combining his 3 final starts of last season and his first 7 of this season, he pitched fairly well: 54.2 IP, 2.14 ERA, 2.5 BB/9, 7.7 K/9, allowing 6 HR and throwing 63% strikes. It's not exactly Cy Young level pitching, but it was good and made it look like he was on track to be a MLB pitcher again. I don't think it's a flukey 10 starts. Now, he's on a 12 start stretch that has been rotten. 55 IP, 7.36 ERA, 5.9 BB/9, 5.4 K/9, 9 homers and 57% strike rate. Just like his rotten stretch when he started off in AA last year. I admittedly don't break down every pitcher with shoddy season numbers this way, but I just don't get the feeling that most pitchers combine streaks of consistent good pitching with streaks of consistent horrible pitching. It makes me think there's a real ability for Carson Fulmer to pitch like the good version of himself if the White Sox can figure why Mr. Hyde keeps coming out. What I do suspect, though, is that these peaks and valleys wouldn't be nearly so striking if he'd been given the developmental pace of someone like Alec Hansen.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 08:29 PM) To me, he's done nothing besides being drafted high to deserve a top 20 spot in the org rankings. Give me Stephens, Guerrero and Adams over him Sounds like if Fulmer had spent all of 2016 in A+ and started this year in AA, you'd love him. I don't see how these guys repeating AA or in Stephen's case reaching AA at 24 years old is supposed to be some conclusive proof that Fulmer is an inferior prospect. It's fairly logical to think if we slow-walked Fulmer's development, he'd have a fan club following his AA debut this year with interest. I've been wondering if he might be hurt since about mid-May this eyar, but what seems most clear is the Sox are paying the price for pushing his development timeline harder than was reasonable.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 08:33 AM) I think they want him to learn to play at this level now, so that he is fairly developed when the next wave of kids come up in a 18 months or so... "waves of talent" And his service clock is such that the Sox don't get to keep him any longer even if they waited until early next year to call him up. As long as you're confident that he won't be so overwhelmed up here that it will hurt his development, it's better to get him up here against the best competition and presumably with the best coaches.

There are two separate questions re: Rutherford. One is how good is he, what will he turn into, is he over/underrated, that basic thing. The other is what his market value likely was. His market value is sufficiently high that it's quite incredible that we got him in a deal that centered on Tommy Kahnle. You might disagree about what the market thinks, that's question one. But based on extracting market value from his pieces, Hahn did fairly well here.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 10:17 AM) No, he's always flirted with 100. He started throwing strikes. FanGraphs article yesterday included a chart showing a constant increase in velocity from his first MLB appearance in 2014 up to now.