Punch and Judy Garland

Find me the tree that has a pitcher in his mid-20's who once won 23 games.

I'm not sure when Aaron Rowand became the franchise player but I know I didn't get a say in that election. I'd love to deal him for pitching. I would be very interested in a Zito or Unit in a deal centered around Rowand.

I'd be veery interested in a Lieber-like deal. Also Curtis Leskanic was granted free agency today. He's no world-beater but he might be a decent arm for the 6th or 7th.

I don't recall Oakland ever promising to lock up anybody besides Cahvez. In fact, they had a preseason press conference just to announce Tejada wouldn't be back the following year. Anyways, why wouldn't a Garland/Lee deal work for the A's? Because it would be too expensive for them. None of the big 3 currently make that much and getting an arb. pitcher and an $8 million dollar outfielder won't help them much at all. I think they would be interested in guys like Rowand and maybe even Marte. I would pick Zito out of the 3 because Hudson will make more money than Colon got (according to a recent article) an Mulder's command loss was vexing. I think Zito would be a more affordable long-term option out of them. It would probably take a 3 way deal to get it done since we don't match up well with the A's. Watch out for Toronto as Ricciardi is hard after Zito.

I don;t htink anybody is implying that it's malicious, just that it's bad. I recall a similar worthless projection that Rob Neyer covered once. It involved being able to predict a team's record over a 10 year period. It ended up predicting evy team winning between around 75 and 85 games. It was pretty worthless and that is how I feel a lot of projections are. I'd like to go back to my roto-mags and compare Adrian Beltre's numbers with his projected numbers. These aren't robots afterall.

The page i come from to get here (ss***men) has an article that projects 2005 white sox numbers. I found it interesting only in how laughable it was. It has nuggets such as Maggs hitting 25 homers next year and Frank putting up awesome numbers like .242-24-75. Anyone wanna take the over on that one? Silly projections.

He had a shot this year. I think he went 0-18 to end it since he was hurt/pinch hitting. He ended at .271 or so. He could do it easily if he wanted to but I think he sees his job is to drive in runs and hit homers which it probably is now more than ever with Maggs gone.

I think doing things like that can get your guys hurt. You can play hard without playing dirty. You can take out a 2nd basemen or bowl over a catcher without being dirty. I know what your saying in that you want to see a spark but I don't think that spark and clean play are mutually exclusive.

I wouldn't want KW or Ozzie to condone Cabrera's play. I am referring to the three times in the playoffs that he popped out of his slide at 2nd coming up with elbows in the general vicinity of the middle infielder's head. I like hard-nosed play but not dirty play.

Scott Rolen is not overrated, he's better than Ventura was? Why am I comparing the two? I don't know, it's kind of silly but the argument was that Cabrera is not only the best defensive ss but the best defender in baseball. I don't know how to compare Andruw Jones and Cabrera so I picked an infielder who I think is better. I see Rolen play everyday in SOuthern Illinois and I've never seen anyone as good as him at 3rd.

we could get hermanson who was 17 of 20 or keep our guy who was 19 of 20. I say leave Shingo be.

Scott Rolen is a better defender than Cabrera

It's a tough call. I mean, I like Paulie and all but Lee's speed is one stark advantage for Lee while his D is better than Konerko's. See Ramirez's errors dropping from 33 last year (10 in 63 games with the FLubs, to 10 all season this year. I'd probably go with Lee but it's close. I wouldn't feel real good about either being the go-to-guy in my offense and think they are both better suited to hit 5th or 6th in a potent lineup.

I have to quibble with the numbers though. Radke made 10.5 million this year and I don't see him making much less per year than that given the rough market this year. Also, Percival will surely get more than 4 as it's only him and Benitez as solid solutions for teams looking for a closer. With your numbers they add up to about 10-11 each year where I see them more around 10 and 7 respectively

Alou made 8 errors and ran the bases porrly in addition to his clubhouse problems. You asked if Alou/Konerko is better than Lee/Gload and it is but you would also have to factor in that the Lee/Gload scenario brings in somebody else whereas trading Lee and signing Alou also does but increases precious payroll.

Actually, had the Sox not collapsed in 03, he was a top 5 MVP guy in the AL that year. The AL was wide open and memory tells me that he was a real catalyst for this team out of the two-hole and was hitting big homers and stealing a lot of bases. I think he's already a star offensively on the level of a pre 04 Abreu type. Maybe a little less speed but a little more raw power. Of course Sbreu broke out and had a monster year this year. I don't hate Konerko or anything but if I had to pick my choice would be simple. That said, if your trading partner wants only Lee....

Right, Lee still has plenty of room to improve and no one would dispute that. But, it's hard to argue that he hasn't come along way and is one of the better all-around corner outfielders in the game. Is Lee the best player on the Sox? That's always a tricky question with the Sox because I think that Frank is our best hitter and obviously he doesn't field so I would not really have a problem saying that Lee is our best player. It's rare that your best player isn't your best hitter, defender, or runner but such is life on the South Side.

I agree. He may not throw out guys at the plate but compare him to a guy like Alou and it's night and day. He makes some nice catches and is pretty solid in general ou there. I'm not sayign not to trade him, but I just get the feeling that a lot of us can't wait to deal him or Konerko because change is exciting. My point is that in baseball as much as anything in life, you tend to underrate what you already have.

His walks aren't Frank like but they aren't Hillenbrand like either. HIs .366 obp is nothing to sneeze at. Admittedly, we aren't in the clubhouse so it's hard to argue the heart issue but I do know that Carlos is a much improved defender from 2-3 years ago. I hope it's Paul that goes if anybody and that carlos sticks around

Sometimes we have a tendency to not always value enough what we have. So, just as a reminder, here are Lee's numbers for this year. 0 errors 31 hr 37 doubles 11 steals 103 runs 99 rbi 86 k's (not bad for a slugger) 305/366/525 I'm not saying that keeping Lee is the right or wrong move. But, I think the Sox don't just make a change for change's sake and if you give up Lee, a lot of quality needs to come back. Is Lee the type of guy you build a team around? I would tend to say no but I think he's a real weapon in the order that can legitimately hit anywhere between 2nd and 6th. I just wanted to throw this out there as a nugget to think about before we get excited about trading him.

Maybe Carlos Castillo can make his 2nd annual trip to Spring Training

He must have vanished over that rainbow. Jokes on the cob I guess.

I like Rowand but would deal him for a guy 2 years removed from winning 23 games. Could Coop get through to Zito? I don't think so. From what I've read, Zito is so cerebral that it takes a special individual to help him harness his ability. You could see the drop in the post-Peterson climate in Oakland. This is purely hypothetical, but it sure would make you wonder about Steve Stone as Zito's pitching coach.....

Here's my prediction: 1. Garcia 2. Buehrle 3. Barry Zito 4. Jon Garland 5. Jose Contreras Pen Closer-Shingo Time Set-Marte Set-Jeff Nelson Mid-Politte Mid-Cotts Long-Adkins I don't think we will be using FA to bring in a starter but I think KW will pay the piper to acquire Zito from the A's. What will it take to do that? That's an excellent question but I think it will center around a guy like Rowand. This particular trading scenario makes sense for the Sox as Zito will not cause an increase in payroll. I am not stupid enough to think that Rowand alone will land Zito but I think he will be the start of a package that will include other guys who are farther away from arbitration.

As far as Marte's save %, I don't believe in looking at it for guys who pitch the 7th and 8th because I think that they face tougher situations than most closers do in that they may face a lefty with the bases loaded and nobody out wheras a closer usually gets to start an inning. That said, I'm not in favor of using Marte as a closer because we have aguy who saved 95% of his saves last year. I don't believe the league will "figure" out Shingo but I do know that as a guy who has saved games for as long as he has, you know you don't have to worry about him not being mentally tough enough to handle it.