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nitetrain8601

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Posts posted by nitetrain8601

    Understanding Jerry

    in Pale Hose Talk

    Posted

    On 4/24/2024 at 10:12 AM, T R U said:

    I don't get it. If you don't want to pay the price to sign these high dollar fee agents then invest your money into scouting and development. At least that way you can hopefully produce your own star players and just keep that cycle going.

    We seemingly like to live in the middle ground of behind the times in scouting/development and only shelling out money for mid tier free agents who wont move the needle. Also, continually hiring unqualified alumni to lead your team/organization.

    It's really simple. The Sox don't want to spend money in their front office either. They cost cut everywhere.

    • Like 1

    Sox looking at building in South Loop

    in Pale Hose Talk

    Posted

    15 hours ago, The Beast said:

    But what happens if the hotel tax revenue is short and the Sox and or Bears stadium relies on that revenue? I have to think taxes will be coming from the infrastructure that would be needed unless that came from the capital projects law Pritzker signed.

     

    14 hours ago, 77 Hitmen said:

    According to the Sun-Times, the Bears proposal would still leave enough money from the hotel tax to fund a new Sox ballpark.  So, I don't see this as the Bears beating the Sox to that funding source.  

    https://chicago.suntimes.com/bears/2024/04/23/bears-new-stadium-dome-lakefront-soldier-field

    See what The Beast said. I do think there will be some time of unexpected expense (that's how it always works), which is why I think they beat the Sox to the punch. Because if you're funding the Sox stadium with the same revenue stream, your budgets have to be tight and you have to be in cost cutting mode if you're short at that point. But once shovels go in the ground (which Kevin Warren is aiming for this spring), then they're not going to stop. 

    13 hours ago, Rusty said:

    “No new taxes” is a disgusting marketing term.  It’s a 40 year extension of the existing hotel tax that is currently funding state financing that is $600+ million in the hole still from GRF and the SF renovations.

    It's not. It's already something that's in place. It was set to expire, but if you've followed state or city politics, you should know that it was never going to go away. It was just going to be repurposed for something else, even if it's not a new stadium. See Illinois Tollway for example.

    • Thanks 1

    Sox looking at building in South Loop

    in Pale Hose Talk

    Posted

    1 hour ago, The Beast said:

    Then the Sox should be prepared to not have fans in the middle class attend games either on a regular basis or at all. Those tailgating lots and parking spots make all of the difference for affordability to go to games. If they went to the loop and didn’t have much parking, they would need to ensure more fans attend games and that richer fans/more corporate types made going to Sox games a regular thing.

    Cubs fans have seen the record but there’s no need to be condescending. It’s clear the Sox suck and we have a crappy owner. I think the Cubs and Sox rivalry over the years has kind of died down now that both franchises have won a World Series.

    There will be taxes of some kind. They haven’t even approached the state or had anything voted on yet.

     

    1 hour ago, Texsox said:

    If course there is the misdirection. No new taxes for the stadium because we pulled money from this other pile. Oops, now we need a new tax for that pile. So no new taxes for the stadium.

    It's basically how state lotteries didn't create a net gain for schools. They dumped the lottery proceeds into the pot, but then stopped putting as much from taxes. 

    They're basically going to use the hotel tax at 2% that ISFA uses. I could see them increasing that to 3% even which isn't taxing residents. With that stated, you build that stadium, you also expect to have a lot more hotel tenants with the events lining up such as Final Four for men's and women's, Wrestlemania, Super Bowl, International Soccer, and Olympics (I see them bidding in the next 3 cycles). It could work. 

    11 minutes ago, bmags said:

    100% they did, and the mayor is standing next to them as they do it.

    Yep. And I'm happy for that. Force JR's hand.

    Some Bright Spots

    in Pale Hose Talk

    Posted

    I would be excited, but while the Sox may, if all pans out, have young, controllable young pitching, that's not saying much. That's how JR likes his teams built. Young and cheap. The entire roster will be young and cheap. The main thing missing is good. We all know he won't supplement the roster. Vaughn looks like a 4A player, at best. Benentendi, numbers wise, might be the worst signing in MLB in the past 14 years. 

    Add new players? Getz' response - "Easier said than done"

    in Pale Hose Talk

    Posted

    Warning: Incoming Rant

    The problem is the lack of finances JR and the board make available for FAs or even big trade acquisitions. The problem is the team owner lying through his teeth about making a quick hire to ensure he had a leg up on the competition because he wanted to remain competitive this year. The problem is the owner scoffs at the idea of paying any player market value. The problem is the owner wants to model himself after small market KC Royals. The problem is the goddamn owner's favorite player is David Eckstein. The problem is the owner doesn't value the fans, their opinions, or their desires. The problem is, the owner has always had this mindset and gotten away with it. He lucked into one world series. He hired Kenny because it would be cheaper than the alternative. He hired Ozzie who was so damn determined to take any job, that he took one where he argued with the GM in the goddamn interview room. The problem was, the owner still allowed the hire because it would still be cheaper than the alternatives. This goddamn owner hired his friend when a WS caliber manager was available. The problem is, that same damn owner won't even hire a competent staff that could hide a lot of his cheapness on the field; he rather hire the cheapest staff that money can hire. The same goddamn owner who only makes 250 of his novelty shakes on gameday because he's too fkn cheap to make any more. "You know the price of a cow went up".

    And that's just the owner.

    We have a GM who is in over his head. He didn't have credentials to be leading the farm system, yet here he was, leading the farm system. And what did that farm system produce in his time? A whole lot of nothing. Many of his top prospects wouldn't be ranked in the top 25 of other organizations. Why? Well part of the reason why is because the goddamn owner refuses to pay over slot for players and refuses to trade for international money. Why is he here? Because the owner was too cheap and too lazy to go actually find someone worth a damn. So lazy, in fact, that he sought a waiver from MLB to let him just make the hire. His idea of creating a competitive ball club is trading whatever prospects we have for bench players or fringe MLB type. To give playing time to 4A players or contracts to players way past their bedtime and their prime. We have a GM who's okay with knowing that he won't ever be able to spend a dime. And we have that same GM who recommended the piece of s%*# manager.

    And who is the manager? The worst manager, coach, leader of any professional sports team in the world. I mean it. I have more confidence in a soccer coach who's never even watched baseball to do a better job leading these men.

     

    This organization is a joke, but you know what's more of a joke? Major league baseball. Because to them, as long as the good ole boys club is not interrupted, they could give a s%*# less about competition in their sport. They could care less about fun. It's why you have s%*# popping up in Oakland, and more s%*# popping up in the third biggest city in the nation. 

    • Like 2

    Grade the Cease trade

    in Pale Hose Talk

    Posted

    1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

    Just because you trade someone doesn't mean you didn't want them.  It may well be another team wants them  more.  Keep in mind Drew Thorpe specifically never threw a regular season pitch for the Padres organization.

    At one point or another, yes, you want that prospect. But as time goes by, you're willing to deal that prospect for even a flawed player. Padres are great at showcasing their prospects and putting them in positions to succeed, but I would bet maybe 5 of their top 25 prospects over the past 3 years even pan out into + WAR players over the course of their careers. Look at Washington. They thought they got a haul for Soto. 

    Grade the Cease trade

    in Pale Hose Talk

    Posted

    I give it a D. Padres gave up prospects they "developed", but didn't want. If Cease pitches well, they could flip him again at the deadline. Sox were also adamant about top end talent. Doesn't feel like we got that. Lastly, when you're rebuilding, I'm always in the opinion that you trade star pitching for position players, because everyday players affect the season more than SP. 

    Talks about Spencer Jones or Kjerstad, and we go Thorpe? Yeah, no. 

    Sox looking at building in South Loop

    in Pale Hose Talk

    Posted

    19 minutes ago, LittleHurtCG said:

    Who is going to buy up that Arlington Heights property? The Bears are going to take a haircut if they put it back on the market anytime soon. 

    A developer. I don't think that's too hard. They may sell it at a slight loss, but maybe not since the area is clear. You can start building on it almost immediately. 

    • Like 1

    Sox looking at building in South Loop

    in Pale Hose Talk

    Posted

    19 minutes ago, LittleHurtCG said:

    The two organizations working together on something never made any realistic sense to me. There is no way they can share a stadium and it seems impossible to put both a baseball stadium and a football stadium at the 78 site. 

    I still think the Bears end up out in Arlington Heights. They already have the land purchased. Arlington Heights is also so much easier to get to for a majority of their fanbase and season ticket holders. It seems like a natural fit. 

     

    3 minutes ago, WBWSF said:

    The  Bears didn't want to spend a few million dollars in taxes in Arlington Heights. I find it hard to believe the Bears are going to pay $2 Billion dollars for a stadium in Chicago.

    I think they end up selling Arlington Heights and are including that sale as part of the "We'll pony up 2 mil". And I think that's why it gets done. Even if the stadium is 4 billion to build, that's half. You would be lucky to get even a quarter of that from JR.

    Sox looking at building in South Loop

    in Pale Hose Talk

    Posted

    1 hour ago, LittleHurtCG said:

    And why should they? This whole scenario has been fascinating to observe. The only leverage Jerry has left is to threaten to move the team if he doesn't get his way. It is very hard to teach an old dog a new trick and JR is no exception. 

    My guess is that the Bears and Sox were told to go work something out together (public info), then the Bears and Sox did. Sox probably tried their schtick with the Bears saying "Yeah, you let us use your cash and we'll lobby support behind whatever you want to do." Warren, who has done this before, said "yeah, no, this isn't going to work." and decided, we are just going to move along ourselves. 

    I've always felt, the first to the table is the one that gets their stadium done with at least some public financing. The other one will get very little financing and probably doesn't end up building. Bears released this to the press on Sunday less than a week after they were going to try to work with the Sox. It's clear they're racing to the table.

    JR moves to the beat of his own drum, so I'm sure he's not panicking. 

    • Paper Bag 1

    Sox looking at building in South Loop

    in Pale Hose Talk

    Posted

    2 hours ago, tray said:

    I have enumerated facts supported by links why the 78 site makes no sense for the WSox, coupled with my own opinions and reasoning and no, it wasn't only about parking. However, it would be short sighted to discount that. I do not want to re-litigate the Related/78 proposal, but to highlight a few points.

    The 78 site is over a former river bed and dump site. Related is looking (once again) through rose colored glasses with their hands out after their prior proposals for that site (going back over 20 years) have failed.  Reorienting streets, railroad tracks, and ingress/egress for the 78 would add tremendously to development costs for the City and State over developing other sites, including the Bridgeport or Bronzeville/M. Reese site. 

    The 78 rendering of a nondescript baseball stadium within an office park was uninspiring. Related patronizing fans with a later version of their rendering painted green for St. Pat's day, was insulting.

     

     

     

    People want urban areas where they can do stuff pre-game and post game. While there is a contingent that like to tailgate, that’s simply what the younger generations want and that’s been proven. 
     

    The river bed stuff is a failed argument. There’s a public park adjacent just south of the proposed stadium site called ping tom park. It’s good enough to have folks walking around, catching kayaks, etc, but the area next to it isn’t? 
     

    Atlanta has a large office building in truist sightlines. Wrigleyville has had the rooftops. This wouldn’t be any different. With that stated, not “being inspired” by the renderings is subjective just like the rest of your post. The folks downstate actually like the renderings and the area.

     

    if the stadium isn’t built it has nothing to do with parking lots or how the renderings look. It’s purely money related.

    • Like 1

    Sox looking at building in South Loop

    in Pale Hose Talk

    Posted

    2 hours ago, NO!!MARY!!! said:

    If they are Sox fans who are willing to see the team leave over an 88 year old owner who won’t be around long, that makes them worse. 

    See I think Sox fans (not you in particular) have a double standard. Pride ourselves in not supporting crap, but at the same time, we crap on those who aren't supporting the crap. 

    I'm with whatever pushes JR to be out of the sports game fastest. Whether that's giving him his darn stadium to make it more attractive to sell the team, or losing out to take his ball and go home (via relocation or sale). You say he's 88 like he hasn't been stirring up more and more trouble. Now, he's willing to blame lack of attendance to potentially screw over tax payers as one of his final acts as if his product isn't complete and utter garbage. 

    2 hours ago, tray said:

    For the umpteenth time, the 78 proposal was dreamed up and hyped by a developer that could not obtain financing or public funding for several past projects there. This things was NOT the WSox or Reinsdorf's idea.

    Related paid for a laughable rendering of a generic stadium that has absolutely no relationship to historical baseball architecture, including original Comiskey or Wrigley.  There is nothing to make it a destination or a special experience like Fenway or even the more modern stadiums, including Three Rivers or Oracle Park. It is a POS. But, Related thnks that smacking a several story high lighted SOX  logo on the side, a few whirlybirds with fireworks will be enough to impress some fans. LOL. A view of the Loop?  So what, but even that looks like it is blocked by a huge scoreboard, a similar mistake that was made during the remodel of Wrigley where the neighborhood views from inside and outside the park were blocked off with scoreboards.

    So we have a greedy developer with a laughable plan to build as many buildings as they could draw in as small a space as possible, leaving WSox fans with no useful ingress/egress or provisions for reasonable parking. Oh, and Related wants Billions from IL taxpayers to develop that site? LOL.  No matter what you think of Gov. Pritzker, he is right about this one. No public funds for stadiums or funds awarded to private developers to build more unnecessary office space or high end condos.  The answer is no.

     

    Lots of people liked the renderings. And what makes you think JR cares about "historical baseball architecture" when he's the one who greenlit Guaranteed Rate which looked like a parking garage and a baseball field had a baby the day it was thought of?

    Make no mistake, JR wants a new stadium and a new sweetheart deal from the city and state. There was already talk if him looking at the UC area or Soldier Field before the Related talk began. He also is friends with the developer.

    • Paper Bag 1

    Sox looking at building in South Loop

    in Pale Hose Talk

    Posted

    16 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

    Just wanted to put this out there. Mainstream media stories came out yesterday that the Chicago Red Stars of the women's pro soccer league said they now want to get a stadium built for them. One of the quotes in the story way "women deserve a seat at the table..."

    I don't think it will happen. They don't draw enough in Bridgeview. That stadium in Bridgeview is pretty nice overall. At best, they'll have to share a stadium. If they drew heavy, then yes, they would most definitely have a seat at the table. 

    • Like 1

    Sox looking at building in South Loop

    in Pale Hose Talk

    Posted · Edited by nitetrain8601

    44 minutes ago, Lightly Folded said:

    Pritzker made it clear that credible taxpayer benefits would have to be evident before any state aid would be on the table. A question Pritzker also could have also been asked is does he see any taxpayer benefits from the current deal the Sox have with the state and how he’d feel about extending it past 2029. I believe the overwhelming view is that there is only benefits to the white sox ownership group and none to the taxpayer. Therefore how could there be any justification in extending that deal if it doesn’t benefit taxpayers. Jerry obviously isn’t going accept a lesser deal. . I suppose the bears are in the same situation regarding extending the hotel tax with it going to them for help building a new stadium. There is a possibility the Sox won’t have any home ballpark to play in after 2029 if Pritzker hold fast to his commitment to Illinois taxpayers.

    I worry about the Bears issue if it's not Arlington Heights. Large part of the allure was a domed stadium in Bear land where they build up a stadium park similar to LA Live with Staples, The Battery with the Braves, etc. If the Bears are not getting that, they don't get much benefit. If they don't get much benefit, then they're going to look for a sweeter deal from the city to make up on potentially lost revenue. Ultimately, it hits taxpayers again for a stadium, potentially, not so different from Soldier Field. At that point, just renovate Soldier again. Move the columns to an outside park potentially on the south lot. Put a retractable roof and touch up the bottom concourse. 

    For the Sox, location and space make sense. Sweetheart deal where everyone else pays for it and gets no benefit from don't. 

    Sox looking at building in South Loop

    in Pale Hose Talk

    Posted

    3 hours ago, 77 Hitmen said:

    I agree.  That debt is *only* $50M.  If Jerry isn't willing to cover that, then the state should tell him no.   JR is saving at least that much by slashing payroll after the rebuild crashed and burned.  

    There are no term limits for Illinois Governor.  Edgar chose not to seek a 3rd term voluntarily.  Everyone else since him has been limited due to their incompetence and/or crookedness.  

    I was in high school at the time, anyone know why Edgar didn’t want a third term?

    Nike Fanatics Jerseys

    in Pale Hose Talk

    Posted

    2 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

    It's Fanatics.  They are a freaking disaster.

     

    5 hours ago, Kyyle23 said:

    Honestly how did Nike mess this up so badly.  You are NIKE, one of the world’s top athletic wear producers!  What the hell lmao

    It's both Nike and Fanatics. Fanatics makes giant posters, hats and accessories. They don't make uniforms. They never have. I've seen Temu jerseys that look better. Nike screwed up because they wanted that contract so bad so they could put their check on the uniform. They got it, then they subcontracted the job to Fanatics. And shame on MLB for allowing them to do that. 

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