nitetrain8601
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Posts posted by nitetrain8601
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1 hour ago, Vacheron said:
Hahn's probably a decent guy and he's great at negotiating contracts, but this isn't working and we need a culture change.
Won't happen under Jerry.
We give Hahn a lot of crap, but let's not forget Kenny Williams has been a waste of space just as long. Glad he won a World Series but we have been paying for it with his incompetence for the last 18 years.
The book out on him was that he was good at negotiating contracts. Based off of the signings and self-imposed cap, I'd say he's pretty awful at money overall. It's been posted countless dollars that he has wasted for the bullpen or for trash signings. Giving Leury what he did is proof enough that he isn't a great negotiator.
And this "I'm just as pissed as you..." shtick doesn't work if you constantly have to use it. You're the GM and you're essentially calling yourself a victim in terms of why things don't get done.
He sucks, plain and simple. Cubs dodged a bullet not hiring him. Sox are taking that bullet. But unfortunately, until Jerry sells (which he won't), nepotism will run rampant through this organization. So Hahn will fail upwards and we will get Hahn's nephew running things. SMDH
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3 hours ago, joejoesox said:
38 million down the drain and he still hasn't enough to prove he sucks at his job apparently
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I don't think it's a terrible move, but I also would've waited until the offseason to see what I have with Tatis. I don't forsee how they could afford all three of Soto, Tatis and Machado long term while fielding a team.
Theoretically, you prefer to keep the younger ones, but oh well.
Sucks that the Sox would never be in on this at all.
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57 minutes ago, supernuke said:
Do you think JR would have approved another white flag?
This is not a defense of Rick Hahn but I would guess that the reason he hasn't been fired is because JR doesn't have any issue with the job he is doing.
What other GM is going to come in and try to operate with little to no ability to sign a long term big money contract and also with little investment in scouting and player development.
I'm all for showing Hahn the door, but I doubt anything changes if they do.
I don't think JR thinks that deeply on it to be honest. I think he is loyal and entrusts who he has in front of him to make all of the decisions. The only constraint I see him put forth is that of money, which is frustrating, but also understandable.
With that stated, I don't forsee JR being happy about saying "We need to rebuild all over again". And that's not what I'm suggesting. I'm suggesting a retool. Roster is good and young enough for that. We all knew at least one of Abreu, Vaughn, Eloy, Grandal, or Sheets could not be here going forward. We knew this bullpen was way too expensive. We also knew this team was injury prone all of last year from the gate. We didn't buy, nor sell which is the worst thing you could do.
Hahn did have the ability to sign someone to a big contract. He chose to get cute with it (well if Machado hit the incentives, then he would've received more per annual, blah blah blah). You don't do stupid ish like that to a generational 3B like Machado. It's a slap in the face. Then saying, "Well, now we can take those dollars and invest elsewhere", which is true, but then signing Joe Kelly, getting Liam (good player, but no way is a bullpen arm worth that much short of Mo Rivera), Leury's deal, etc. The best deal Hahn has made in his tenure is that of Cueto and that was arguably by stupid blink necessity and luck.
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I think a GM needs to know how to operate with the confinements given to them by those up top. It happens in everyday life, and in all organizations. Your boss wants you to make something happen, but makes it a little bit more difficult than it needs to be due to certain constraints out of your control. So you either make it happen or find an organization that better fits how you need to operate.
With that stated, it's long enough to realize that one of the following is true: Hahn is bad at his job or Hahn sucks at working within the rules his bosses want him to play. Regardless of reason, he's shown enough that he needs to be put through that door.
In my mind, I think he's just flat out bad at his job. I appreciate that he breaks the 4th wall and gets upset like we do and shows it. I was happy enough with him blowing up the team a few years ago and getting some major players like Eloy. But, IMO, whether it was due to payroll, or teams overvaluing their players, or him just not having a plan, it's clear that he doesn't know how to do anything other than blow up a team for the Chicago White Sox.
His forecasting has sucked when it comes to players wanting more money (Machado fiasco), his use of assets made available to him such as trade chips or money has sucked (that bullpen, Leury, etc.), he has allowed his players to become depreciating assets (Grandal, Kimbrel, Hendriks, etc.), his answer to filling starting voids on the team is to have players way out of position or to fulfill with backup minor league options.
IMO, I can't put that on Jerry. If Jerry told him that they were going to roll back on payroll, that's understandable because they sucked in the worst division in baseball. Hahn should've sold off the team at the deadline, especially Abreu. He didn't even do that. So now we are stuck with the exact same team again and expecting to do 12-15 games better based upon hopes and dreams.
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7 hours ago, ThirdGen said:
Sounds like the upper level group areas at the UC.
Yep, sounds like they're building a MadHouse section like at the UC. That would be cool, but I think they severely underutilize the space around the immediate park.
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2 hours ago, caulfield12 said:
Dylan Cease is worth a LOT more than Clevinger who got CLE Quantrill Naylor O.Miller Hedges Reyes...
Cease can hardly ever get past 5-6 innings.
A great GM makes that kind of a fill out the roster with depth move if they're cornered by payroll constraints.
The only other obvious cuts are Abreu for Vaughn, along with Graveman for Lopez. Or Hendriks for Lopez.
Then Crochet/Bummer coming back equalizes that loss and then some.
Well, I don't even believe in paying your bullpen much. It's a crap shoot every year. I wouldn't count on Bummer or Crochet along with Graveman, Lopez or Hendriks. Definitely not Kelly either, which is why I hated the move. I think, honestly, the team is two years away from actually competing again and that's if they do a retool.
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3 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:
Dansby Swanson is pretty inconsistent, but closer to that second tier price range.
(We would probably get Brandon Crawford two years too late.)
And X.Bogaerts will cost an arm and a leg.
Agreed. Honestly, the only way I see this team competing next year is via trade or just giving two sh*ts about the salary cap and overpaying everyone. They still need two corner OFs, a decision on Abrea/Vaughn/Eloy (who plays DH, who plays 1B and who's left out). They need to get a C who can play. Moncada would be a nice 7th hitter, but I don't know if that's possible on this roster.
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Wouldn't mind Bochy or Beltran. It's going to be someone familiar with them, however, so Ozzie would be the only "We know him hire" i might be halfway convinced on.
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Honestly, I would move TA to 2B, but I don't know if Correa is the one to convince me. They do need to get some vocal leaders for that clubhouse. Everyone is just so non-chalant, lead by example types. On a baseball roster, you need vocal leaders.
Correa simply isn't as good as people have rated him. Trea is an injury waiting to happen. 😕
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I think Machado has showed he can carry a team by himself. I get deciding that in the end, he's not worth not being able to build the rest of the roster. The reason why I would've argued against that is that if you have what everyone thinks are young studs coming up at darn near every position, and you've had general success in developing pitching, Machado makes the most sense for your team.
Instead, the deals that they signed are mind boggling - Manny Machado fan club, Eaton, Kelly, Hendriks, Grandal (never liked that deal from the get go), Keuchel (who looked washed with ATL, but got bailed out quite a bit), Lynn (which I thought was a bad use of assets, though he has played better than I expected overall). I just think Hahn didn't know what to do after he actually acquired a ton of prospects. You almost needed a Dave Dombroski type to cash in the chips for him.
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On 9/10/2022 at 3:09 PM, scs787 said:
Ah yes, the separation argument. You know who got a ton of separation last year? Byron Pringle. Like top 5 in the league I wanna say.
Just wanted to bring that back. To show him some love.
Yes, the argument makes a ton of sense considering the argument being made is that Robinson is washed, doesn't deserve the money he wanted, etc. Or is the argument shifting that having separation actually means you're doing worse?
Robinson was getting 3.4 years of separation according to Statcast, Kupp 1.4, yet Kupp was seeing a whole lot more targets. Robinson is not the problem in Game 1.
Continue on...
PS Didn't know Pringle was seeing usage, or had similar roles to Robinson or Kupp prior to joining the Bears. I kept hearing Kelce, Hill, Watkins, Robinson, etc. I guess 67 total touches amount to that these days though.
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How are people saying Robinson is cooked when he actually, statistically got more separation than Cooper Kupp did. QB has to throw him the ball more than twice. Kupp is going to be good due to pure usage for fantasy purposes. The Rams offense, specifically Stafford, need to learn to spread the ball passing wise.
I also have concerns with Cam Akers.
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Oof, I wish they saved the 13 runs for Gio's start tomorrow. They'll need it. If Gio wins, then the Sox may actually be onto something. Whether it be Stick'Em, Miggy Cairo (I remember when he used to be a catcher; i'm getting old) or someone giving a damn, ThE KiDz CaN PlAy!1!
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12 hours ago, bmags said:
The point is if McCaskey hires a president now, that president will be above poles, and will not have hire poles.
Had he retired last year, the whole group would have been brought in together.
George has always made these arranged marriages since taking over.
Apologies, but I realized I didn't write that clearly. So my bad. Phillips actually had nothing to do with the hiring of Poles other than contract negotiations.
"
But there was more to it.
“The reality is the team wasn’t a consistent winner,” Phillips said. “So I talked to George and told him that we need to make some changes in terms of football reporting, and the decision was made to make a change.”
During Phillips’ reign, the Bears have a .480 winning percentage and failed to make the playoffs in 73 percent of their seasons. Phillips called the lack of winning “my biggest disappointment.”
Fans and media sometimes blamed Phillips for the Bears’ struggles, but he never made decisions about players and was not a meddler. He hired the people to make decisions about players and then discussed their choices with them."
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1 minute ago, reiks12 said:
What inning do you start putting in defensive subs for Sheets and Vaughn with what Cease is doing out there?
At what point do you put in a defensive sub for Eloy as well. Yes, he's never safe and god knows when Robert will be back.
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You have a better shot of Kenny owning the team than you do of a legit invested owner doing so.
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2 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:
Phillips retiring now instead of last year is dumb. New football guy will want his own people and that means Poles and Flus are on borrowed time already, unless they decide to make Poles the football guy and hire a new business person.
Actually not the case. If you have access to the Athletic article, it's pretty good. With regards to your comment, Phillips actually ceded control of football operations to McCaskey and suggested to McCaskey even. From the sounds of it too, he would hire football guys and stay out of their way. Theoretically, that's what most fans want. So maybe the crime now is that he didn't care enough to fire someone quick enough? Not sure what the complaint would be other than just general frustration with the team and blaming Phillips as the fall guy.
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Where's the press conference?
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Just now, harkness99 said:
wont be what he could have got at the deadline.
As opposed to what the Sox will get - hint: nothing
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Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said:
Jed Hoyer completely taking a dump as well.
Hoyer was worse than Hahn today. That guy has no idea what he's doing. Let's his players go around saying goodbye too. lol
No way he did worse. He did slightly better. Bad that he let everyone say goodbye. But he can still get compensation for those guys. Sox aren't getting anyone for Cueto, Abreu, Hendriks next season.
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4 minutes ago, The Beast said:
And said fans will make their disapproval known with their wallets.
Some will. Most won't. Sox are in perfect position for...
4 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:Yeah I believe Samson when he said that. Everything that has been done over the last 20 years points to it.
This. As Jack has stated, based upon the moves made historically with this team, it appears this is true. Sox have proven they are a 2nd place team and they'll win games to get you believing in them again, then lose games they should win with their eyes closed (like last night with TLR's eyes closed in the 1st inning).
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1 minute ago, Goober said:
Lololol these idiots really did nothing except getting Beakman yesterday?
How do they still have jobs?
"Because the best thing you can do is be in 2nd place to give the fans hope while also ensuring you're not spending top money. Keeps the fans in the ballpark and spending on parking and concessions."
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1 minute ago, JoeC said:
I feel like the quintessential KW move would have been to acquire someone like Pujols or Nelson Cruz.
Correct. He would've tried though. He thought big. He would've gone after Pujols, Cruz, Joc, Syndergaard, Whit, etc. But he would've picked a lane.
The End of the Big Lie
in Pale Hose Talk
Posted
I don't think I've ever turned on a GM quicker. Even with GarPax, they built good will with the work they did earlier in their careers and took the Bulls out of some very dark days. You could also see that they were decent amateur evaluators.
Hahn supposedly is great at contracts and all I've seen him do is pay for players that there really is no competition for, and blow cash that way. The Machado thing was the biggest eye opener. Had a legit stud, HOF player willing to come here, and he says stupid crap like "He's going to have to prove it".
All of his moves outside of Quintana's trade, have been disastrous. Resigning Leury to a contract extension, wasting so much money on a bad bullpen, the Jon Jay and Yonder Alonso crap, and blaming media for interviewing the wrong fans. The only people who are going to ball games are people who have been gifted seats, already had a planned outing there, or simply those who have nothing to do.
Shame on Jerry for letting this continue. He won't fire them, especially midseason, so what's his end game here? He's already stated he wants his family to sell the Sox when he's gone. So why not just sell them now?
No one, not your die hards, not your negative fans, nor the most positive fans are rooting for the White Sox. And that's the problem. They've created such disdain that we're all apathetic to it all. There is nothing to root for, not until there's an entire overhaul of the FO. I don't even want Suzy who's been in the ticketing department for 15 years to still be there (Sorry Suzy), for fear of the remnants of bad ashes to be on her. This whole thing is rotten to the core. Unfortunately, the White Sox have made themselves so irrelevant, they won't be called out by the national media, which is seemingly the only time JR actually does things.