Frank the Tank 35

Don't assume Everett isn't a valuable trade chip. He's hardly ever been used as a full time player during his career, but extrapolating his numbers out this year to a full season, he could have had about 30 homers and 120 rbis. Granted that would be playing 1/2 his games at the Cell, AND it's only speculation. I dunno what team wouldn't be interested in a guy who can hit 25 homers and drive in over 100 runs. Yeah last year he sucked because he was coming back from injury, and he was a fatass. He dropped the weight though and being 34 years old, he's still at the backend of his prime. He's a free agent after this year and only making 4 mil this year (I think), not a huge commitment. If a team is looking to make a push and needs a lefthanded bat in the outfield, I see Everett as a pretty good option. Where else will you find that type of production for that kind of $$? He's said some interesting things but hasn't been a clubhouse cancer. I love having the luxury of Everett off the bench, but we might as well trade from our surplus if we need to shore up any weaknesses.

Putz and Mateo are making about league minimum, they're not going anywhere. Villone might be moved, and he's a lefty. Dunn=overrated on anything but a fantasy team

Yeah, addendum to my vote. 1a is to get Chavez as that would really be building for a playoff team. But as for me realistic vote, go for the starter.

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 05:57 PM) Guardado is an All-Star THIS year, Giambi is not. As I mentioned in another thread, a rotator cuff problem is nothing to snuff at. He may be the toughest guy there is, but a serious rotator cuff injury is not something you can get around. I myself injured my rotator a few months ago, and it was not pleasant. At first there was just minor pain/discomfort, then all of a sudden and really without warning I woke up in the middle of the night to stinging, sharp pain. I mean it could turn out that Guardado makes it through the entire year, but I wouldn't risk that. Someone mentioned a few relief guys as possibilities which sound a lot more compelling and feasible. Ron Villone is a lefty we could use. Scott Eyre is pitching on the Giants, if KW is interested in Schmidt maybe he could increase the trade to include him as well. Salomon Torres of the Pirates may be an option. He's not pitching as well as last year but is still in the mid 3's for era. All 3 of them are making over a mil, which makes it more feasible that their respective teams might be taking offers for them to unload a little cash. In any event, my vote is to trade for a starter, demote Viz, bring up a rookie reliever/demote Duque to the pen. If we can acquire a 3b, hell I'm tired of Crede's popups, go for it. If there were only a way to have someone else play 3b for the first 6 or 7 innings, then put Crede in the 8th (the only time it seems he hits) for a clutch homer...

I'll say it again, all prospects are suspects till they prove otherwise. Who cares about prospects? Sure if you have the time to invest them. Look how long it took Garland to develop. Pitchers that develop overnight into dominant forces, like Prior, are few and far in between. BMac may be a good pitcher one day, but probably not that dominant and not for a few years. Besides, it's not like the Sox have a great record of drafting dominant pitchers lately... who exactly have we groomed besides Buehrle in the past decade? Buehrle wasn't even a top pick either, we kinda got lucky. Position players you have a little more leniancy with as a team could afford to have a 8th or 9th place hitter batting .250/.260. Playoff contending teams don't have the luxury of letting their 5th starter go out and bomb every time he's out there. Not on a team that is supposed to be based around pitching and defense especially. If the Sox were to add one of these top pitchers, give up anyone in the minors, who cares? Besides injury risk, which would apply to many pitchers anyway, you KNOW you are getting a top quality pitcher. You DO NOT KNOW that with any prospect. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you have to save money, blah blah blah... SCREW IT! Do we wanna win it all this year? Hell yeah. Screw the prospects, give me the allstars. After almost 90 years of waiting, do you want to blow another shot at a WSC? But hey, if we keep these prospects then we could win.... sometime in the next century??? None of these prospects are going to be immediate help even next year except maybe a bench player here or a relief pitcher there. That's it. If you're making the argument that you'd rather see the Sox trade for a relief pitcher or a 3b rather than a starter, well that's fine and acceptable. Stop the man-love for prospects.

Could we maybe trade for a new 3rd base coach? One with spacial perception?

While Uribe is frightfully returning to form, the argument to get rid of him seems somewhat moot. He has a cannon for an arm and really helps out on the defensive end. Sure he frequently makes an out but often hits against pitchers no one else can because of his erractic behavior. Crede and Uribe are becoming far too similar to call one out and not the other. In any event, if you must replace Uribe: Omar is a good replacement option for this year but, Julio Lugo may be just as good for this year and even better in subsequent years. He may not have the postseason experience like Omar but has better numbers this year and almost certainly will next year as Omar's age catches up to him. Lugo is 29 and a 5 year veteran. It appears as if he's finally stopped swinging for the fences and realizes the type of player he is. He's the 3rd highest paid player on a Rays team that will probably be unloading. They were previously looking to sign him longterm but have been unable to do so. He's making $3.25 mil this year with an option worth almost $5 mil next year. With that cheapass running the show down in Tampa, and Baez and Huff probable candidates to be moved this year (the other 2 players being paid more), it seems not all that unlikely that Lugo could be acquired too. He's hitting .290 with 20 stolen bases. He seems like a perfect fit into Ozzie's style and primed to set the highest stolen base total of his career. With a little help from Ozzieball, he could steal 40-50 bases at the rate he's going now. Speculation of course but something to think about nonetheless. The only holdup I see is that I've read the Rays' GM is hard to deal with. Thoughts?

I agree with you for the most part. I, however, would be tentative about getting Eddie. Normally I'd be all for it, but he may be an injury waiting to happen. He's been pitching with a rotator problem recently, and I just don't know how it's just going to get better with more use. Just a few months back I injured my rotator. It started as slight discomfort, then one day, bam, I was out and my shoulder was in sharp pain. That alone would be enough to scare me away from him. Although if we got a top starter we could solve the "Cuban pitching crisis" and put one of them in the pen, solidifying that as well. Demote Vizcaino, he's been given ample opportunity to find his location but still cannot do it. I was at the game yesterday when he pitched the ninth. It was pathetic, the only reason he got 3 outs was because the Cubs batters insisted on swinging at balls way out of the strike zone. As per Schmidt, at first I really thought it was a bad idea given his injury. His last start though was promising in that his velocity was back up. The Giants will wait on it now as long as they can (probably till close to the deadline) and see if Schmidt can make the full recovery. Don't think that the bidding would be any higher for Schmidt than it would be for Clemens. If Schmidt continues to improve and be the Cy-caliber pitcher that he's capable of being, I couldn't fault Kenny for moving for him either.

Any team that's willing to spend money can be a contender overnight (as long as you're not the Tigers). When the checkbook frees up, they have to have players to build on. They're obviously keeping Berkman, and I'd bet they keep the inexpensive, young Lidge as well. Lane, Ensberg, and Lamb are some decent everyday players. Clemens is obviously done soon. Pettitte may come back if he isn't traded, but he's already 33 and wouldn't be a huge part of a "rebuilding" process except for maybe a veteran presence. Bags is pretty much done. Biggio's gotta give it up soon. Who's left of note? Honestly no one. They have no young pitching stud who's making his rookie/sophomore tour. Oswalt's a building block. Giving up Oswalt and starting your pitching staff basically from nothing would add a lot of time to that rebuilding process.

I think of the old adage, "all prospects are suspects" until they prove otherwise. Oswalt has proven he has the stuff. He could easily be the best pitcher in baseball in a couple years. Why would you trade a PROVEN elite #1 starting pitcher for suspects? Unless you're getting like 3 or 4 major league ready, seriously can't miss prospects, which I don't think the Sox have, there's no way I'd deal Oswalt.

I see your point, but they're shelling out 18 million for Clemens, 18 million for Bagwell, and 8.5 million for Pettitte. These guys will be off the books soon, the pitchers perhaps sooner than later. Their owner is clearly willing to spend $$ on talent if necessary. I mean he was going to give Beltran a hefty contract as well but just got plain outbidded by a New York team. If he wasn't fiscally trapped by all these high contracts, who knows, Beltran may still be in an Astros uni. If they're going into rebuilding mode, why wouldn't you keep your young ace? He may not even be at his full potential yet. By the time Oswalt's contract is up, Drayton McLane will have plenty of $$ to spend on him.

They have two other top veteran pitchers making more salary that I'm sure they'd prefer to dump and would get PLENTY of value for.

I mean while we're on the topic of acquiring fantastic young talented pitchers who play for mediocre teams, why don't we also add Ben Sheets, Ollie Perez, Rich Harden, Roy Halladay, and oh the Marlins are only playing .500 ball, maybe any one of their pitchers as well. I don't mean to sound like I'm going off, but Oswalt is clearly a pipe dream. If somehow we did get him, I'd gladly eat my words for a month.

I voted for Oswalt, but it ain't happening. He's probably the best thing the 'stros have going for them, one of the best pitchers in baseball, tied up in a VERY affordable contract for his talent, and is only 27 years old. If there's anybody at all on that team who's not going to get moved besides Berkman, it's definitely Oswalt. If you were the Astros, would you trade him for any suspect in anybody's minor league system? I sure wouldn't...

Jason Schmidt doesn't have the same velocity this year. That is the reason he's struggling with a 5.40 era. Let's not forget the last pitcher we traded for who lost a few mph off his fastball... begins with a Billy, ends with a Koch.

Adding any 3 of the Astros' top starters would definitely be a boon to our postseason hopes. However, it is unlikely that we'd be able to obtain the services of Clemens or Oswalt. Oswalt, in my opinion, is their best pitcher, he's young, and he's only making 5.9 mil this year. While it would be beautiful to get Clemens, some retribution for skipping out on him earlier to sign Navarro, he's making 18 mil... as much as anyone would like a Championship, I can't see JR shelling out that much. Pettitte, on the other hand, is making 8.5 mil. He's 33 so he's not that young. Out of all their pitchers, the Sox would probably have the best chance of landing Pettitte. He's got a semi-sizable contract, and he's getting older, so they'd be willing to part ways. He also has a TON of postseason experience which would be a big help. Another idea, not saying it's going to happen or is even likely but just throwing it out there, is the possibility of the Braves finally giving up their stranglehold of the NL East and giving up some of their veteran talent. Granted everyone in the NL East has a legitimate chance of winning that division, but the Braves just don't look like they can keep it together with all of their players hitting the DL. By the time they start getting everyone back, it may be too late and they could decide to retool for next year. Seeing as they have already parted ways with pitchers such as Maddux, Glavine, Millwood, etc., it should stand to reason that they'd be willing to give up Smoltz for the right price. He's obviously only a couple years away from retirement, and he's making 9 mil. He also has a ton of postseason experience AND could either be a #2 starter or a TOP closer... interesting indeed. Another Braves veteran of interest could be Chipper. He's also getting older and making 16 mil this year. He has a rather hefty contract and is currently on the DL, so there could be some obvious tepidation about getting his services. The Braves would have to give us a sweet deal, otherwise I'd be disinclined to go after Chipper. Unlikely they'd trade Huddy though despite his struggles and DL stint this year. Just an idea anyway... I also heard on the radio that Jason Johnson of the Tigers and Mark Redman of the Pirates were a couple pitchers that will probably be traded by the deadline. Both have had some good and bad seasons in the past, but both are doing well this year. Aaron Sele is also a probability to be on the trading block and is having a fine year for an otherwise disappointing Mariners team. They're not the blockbuster moves everyone's looking for, and I don't know if they'd be anymore reliable than Duque. Personally I can't say I'd be overjoyed about acquiring any of those pitchers, but realistically that may be what KW will be dealing with.

Interesting debate... It seems like everyone agrees on the smoking issue, but there is a wide gap on the middle of the inning hotdog/bathroom run. I will agree that after about the fourth or fifth time someone gets up in the middle of a play, it would start to become annoying... but honestly, I can't ever remember that happening to me. I'm only in my early twenties, but I've had the chance to go to at least a handful of games every summer since I became a fan in '91. It seems to me that most people wait for a break in the action. I, myself, always wait till the end of a half inning because I don't want to miss any of the action. However, even if something to the effect of someone leaving in the middle of a play was even a semiregular occurence, I've never noticed it and, more importantly, it never bothered me. Like one of my college professor's always said, "When you're going to the beach, you put on your beach clothes... you don't wear nice clothes." I am actually an avid fan of opera and have had season tickets to the Chicago Lyric. When I go to a performance there, I am well aware what to expect... best behavior, keep the shifting in your seat to a minimum, don't you dare cough during the tenor's aria, and no exiting or entering the theater during acts... and if you exit, you are not let back in. Likewise, when I go to a Sox game, I expect a relaxed atmosphere. I expect people to be getting in and out of their seats, and it really doesn't bother me unless, as I stated previously, it happened all too frequently in the middle of plays (which I cannot remember occurring). I think it all boils down to what people expect gauged against what their individual tolerances for such behavior are. Of course some people are going to cry about it, and of course there will be aggressive, lewd people who are going to call them Ms. Sassypants. My advice is to just keep your head screwed on and relax. If you get pissed off, go to a gym afterwards and punish some iron... at least it'll do a little good for your body and work off those beer calories. Totally unrelated to this topic... what's the point of this??? --->

I don't think anyone posted this yet, per whitesox.com Sounds good to me...

KW: It's my "flying under the radar" camouflage look... Oz: Bag home dat's duh "Urbina kidnapper" luke...

The 2003 Marlins did have a great rotation, but going into the season they had just as many question marks as we do now. Beckett was pretty much only in his second year plus he had that whole blister thing. Willis was a rookie who they got from the Cubs for Clement and had a ridiculous season. Pavano had shown flashes of dominance in his past, but on the flip side he had a couple seasons where he threw in the 6's for era plus he'd been pitching in the league for like 5 years already. Redman came out and had the best season he'd ever had... like .7 era better than his very best season (granted in the AL... but that only accounts for .3). Their "ace" Burnett was out for the season. Penny was just about the most solid thing they had going into the season. The commonality here is the potential. Unfortunately we don't have the potential of lots of young guys but rather we're sorta relying on the potential of a couple aging Cubans.

Senior at IWU.... close enough

I agree Pods is currently the poor man's Juan Pierre, and I can only hope that Gooch hits like Castillo has at the MLB level. The potential is there, however, and I think KW has done the best he can to position the pieces to fall in the Sox' favor. With the Sox' payroll, it's hard to buy sure things. Pods can oust Pierre steals wise, and if he can get back some of his rookie hitting form, he could be just as effective. Harris obviously will never be the hitter that Castillo is, which is one of the reasons KW figured he had to take a stab with Gooch. The 2003 Marlins had many question marks as well. Burnett was out. Dontrelle Willis came out of nowhere. Pavano, Penny, and Redman all put up some of their best numbers ever (I'm looking towards Contreras, Garland, etc here). Cabrera stepped in to fill the void left when Lowell got hurt and produced big time. Hollandsworth, Alex Gonzalez, and Encarnacion weren't exactly premiere hitters, but they put up the numbers when they had to. Although I realize that the Marlins had to deal with the pitchers hitting, you can't just rule it out. The pitchers do have to bat and it effects the lineup. The Sox had about the same OBP as the Marlins did last year and when comparing leagues, it lines up pretty much across the board (league leaders had about same OBP on down). Sox were 8th in their league and Marlins were 10th. Their total OBP from 2003 was the exact same as it was for the Sox last year. Additionally, there was no Frank or Maggs for most the year which definitely affected that stat. But obviously that's last year. I'm just saying that the Sox are trying to duplicate what the Marlins did. It obviously can't be exact science. Remember the A's teams of recent memory. Beane assembled high OBP teams, but they NEVER stole so there was hardly a threat of worry for the opposing pitcher. Sure, great pitching, took them to the playoffs along with that adequate offense. They couldn't beat the Yanks though. Bottom line? If the chips fall right, Kenny has put us in a position to win. I don't mean to be one of those ridiculously optimistic Cub-like fans, but we obviously weren't going to outslug the Yankees. However, the Marlins beat them using the same tactics that the Sox are trying to use. I'm still thinking it's a longshot to actually win a WS in Chicago, but at least we're in better position to do it should we get so far.

Don't get me wrong, I love watching a ball get hit out of the park, but the Marlins pretty much summed up what the underspending Sox need to do in order to beat teams like the Yankees with all their sluggers. Perhaps it's true that it also puts more pressure on hitters to hit when there are men on base but check out these numbers: Player avg avg w/ runner on avg w/ runner in scoring pos Crede .239 .234 (-5) .238 (-1) Everett .260 .275 (+15) .306 (+46) Konerko .277 .303 (+26) .314 (+37) Rowand .310 .317 (+7) .290 (-20) Uribe .283 .308 (+25) .323 (+40) Thomas .271 .252 (-19) .273 (+2) Timo .245 .303 (+58) .397 (+157) Maggs .292 .347 (+55) .352 (+60) CLee .305 .282 (-23) .299 (-6) Jose .216 .221 (+5) .248 (+32) Willie .262 .275 (+13) .273 (+11) Pods .244 .221 (-23) .209 (-35) Dye .265 .264 (-1) .240 (-25) Pierz .272 .288 (+16) .307 (+35) Gooch .333 .344 (+11) As you can see, the prevailing tendency is for hitters to hit BETTER when there are other runners on base. (Hopefully Pods comes out of that sophomore slump! And Dye is fully recovered! ) Whether the reason be that the hitter concentrates more or the pitchers are more distracted by the baserunners makes no difference I suppose. The point is that by stringing together non-homerun hits, we should be able to score just as easily and readily as we did in the past... only with more consistency. In addition all of the speed on our team should make it that much more of a distraction for pitchers.

I don't think anyone has touched on this subject yet, so... The problem with homeruns is that they're rally killers. Once someone hits a homerun, the bases are again empty, and the pressure on the defense and pitching has lightened. Having runners on base puts constant pressure and more tension on the other team's defense and pitching. Errors become more costly because they can score runs. Hanging a pitch is an even bigger mistake because instead of a having to hit a homerun to score someone, only a single is necessary. It becomes harder for a pitcher to concentrate when he has to think about the guy on first or second stealing. He has to work out of the stretch, etc, etc. This team was designed with the '03 Marlins in mind, especially since Ozzie saw it work firsthand. I could personally care less if this year's team doesn't max out on homers (although I would like to see Thomas hit number 500 in a Sox uni) because with the speed on the basepaths that we now have, we should be able to score just as many runs or more.

I agree that getting Clement/Perez and Burnett would be better than getting RJ. But what would we have to give up for Burnett? Garland and Konerko? I'd rather keep Konerko and give up Everett, Borchard (give him away anyway, that hack), and some minor leaguer/bullpen. I'd only trade Marte after working him out... Last year his fastball was waaay down. I don't know if anyone else noticed, but 2 years ago his fastball was hitting 98/99 all the time. Last year it he was lucky to be pitching 94/95... a big difference in why his numbers were not as good. If his fastball is back up, I say don't include him as he is an elite bullpen guy in that case. If Burnett could be had at the same price or less than Randy, I say get him and then sign a FA SP. Even if we get Randy, I just don't see the JR opening up the coffers to spend enough to fill the rest of the gaps.