jphat007

Go 5 for 65 and I bet we get him. Might as well do it.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Nov 25, 2005 -> 08:53 PM) Okay, let me stick to the topic then. Why were you surprised that the Mets and Red Sox gave up such good prospects in their trades but it's no big deal at all that we gave up Gio Gonzalez and Daniel Haigwood? They aren't exactly trash. They were both top ten prospects with us just as the guys the Mets and Red Sox gave up were. In my opinion, all three trades were good for the Mets, Red Sox, and White Sox but we gave up as much if not more than the Mets and Red Sox did. And if Mike Lowell puts up numbers similar to his 2004 season, he will easily be worth $9 million a year. I wasn't surprised. They gave up an overrated prospect for an overrated pitcher. Where did I say I was surprised. My entire thing was that the trade wasn't nearly as good as everyone was making it out to be for the simple fact that it didn't make them a dominant unstoppable team for next year. Are they better? Sure. They got a pitcher who can be a #3 in the AL for someone who wouldn't contribute next year. But I think Beckett was overrated, as I've shown...many, many times, and I was surprised that everyone was making Boston out to be world beaters against just because of this trade. I'm not sure where you are getting this stuff from. Anything I've said about prospects this last week has been about Delgado, who KW didn't want and how CD didn't want to be here, and how the same trade that Boston made would be horrible for US specifically because we didn't need a pitcher or an aging third baseman with a terrible contract.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Nov 25, 2005 -> 08:32 PM) Lowell had a horrible 2005 season just like Thome. Does Thome suck because he had a terrible 2005? Other than last season, Lowell usually puts up pretty good numbers just as Thome does. Lowell's usual numbers aren't as good as Thome's usual numbers but they are damn good for a third baseman. That was my hole point. You can't bash Lowell for one bad year and praise Thome when he had an equally bad 2005. 1)THome had a bad April, most of which he tried to play through pain. It was too much so he had to take time off. He came back too soon and tried to play through the pain to no avail, so he eventually ahd to call it quit. It's hard to swing and certainly ahrd to generate any power when you are hurt. 2)Lowell was not hurt. The Marlins tried to pawn him off on every team in the major leagues. Nobody would ever do it. They even offered to take some of the awful salary just to get him and his terrible salary out of there. Nobody would bite. WHy? because he sucks. They could ONLY get rid of him when the team with plenty of money to throw away would put him at 3rd and there were immediate rumors of him going off to a place like the Twins because BOston didn't want him. Why? Beacuse he sucks. But he wasn't hurt. The two situations are not even CLOSE to comparable. But all of this is beside the point. You changed the subject after you ONCE AGAIN put words in my mouth. I never said it was a bad trade like you said above. NEVER. So listen. Read and comprehend what I say. It's easy. If you can't do that and have to make up stuff to try and make me look wrong, just don't respond to my posts. It's getting tiresome.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Nov 25, 2005 -> 08:16 PM) I think it was a good trade for us but I don't see how you can dislike the Beckett, Lowell, and Mota trade and the Delgado trade but love the Thome trade. Good prospects were given up in all three trades. Wow. Just wow. How many times do I have to explain it? Seriously. It's getting a little ridiculous. I never said I didn't like the Beckett trade. I said I don't think he is an Ace, certainly not in the AL, and that I think he is overrated and Lowell sucks. Boston needed ANY kind of decent pitching though, so it was a good deal for a guy that will be a low 2, high 3 in the AL. Both Thome and Beckett are both injury risks. But again, I never said it was a bad trade. It's just not as great as everyone seems to think IMO, though getting Mota was nice, but I think he won't do as well in the AL either. But seriously dude, I don't know what else I have to say to get it in your head. I've explained this many times. QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Nov 21, 2005 -> 08:32 PM) It's a good trade for Boston. Prospects are just prospects. They are not guaranteed to be good in the majors. And Hanley Ramirez's offensive numbers are hardly impressive. The Red Sox actually know that they are getting an ace-quality pitcher if he can stay healthy. Lowell could put up great numbers pulling cheap homers over the monster. * 1. I'm not sure Beckett is an "Ace" pitcher in the AL. Probably high 3s ERA, especially in Boston. It's not bad by any means, but not great either. 2. Lowell sucks. I seriously doubt Boston wants to keep him at all. Additionally. Look at Beckett's splits last year. Away .261 .316 .434 .750 4.31 ERA away last year Away three year splits .263 BAA 4.10 ERA away Ace - Not so much. His home park numbers help him out tremendously.

I would have liked to have seen the reaction if he didn't trade for Thome in time, Paulie didn't resign, and we had to go with Pods, Rowand, Anderson in the outfield and Dye at first with Frank Thomas spending each and every at bat swinging for the fences to try and reach 500. That's one VERY viable option if he doesn't trade for Thome. We would have a terrible year with a terrible (much worse than last year) offense and lose all of our momentum from the World Series Championship. We'd have been like the Twins this past year with great pitching and no hitting. And our precious Haigwood and GIO would be of zero help in that regard, unless they have a hidden talent of getting on base at a crazy clip and hitting 30-40 bombs.

Might as well trade for Manny in our continued quest for the acquisition of the late 90s Cleveland Indians. Lofton.....Check Vizquel.....Almost Alomar......Check Thome.......Check Manny.......MIght as well... Fryman......eh, not so much Baines (in the 99 playoffs).......Check Sandy.......Check Colon........Check

If we resign Paulie I'll look at this trade like: Rowand for Thome Haigwood and Gio for Konerko because we would use the money we earned by trading Gio and Haig to sign Paulie. Or any other first baseman we sign if not Paulie.

I like it. If we didn't sign Paulie, we were in some fairly big trouble next year on offense. Now we have protection and can still be aggressive. I would dislike this trade if it involved the starting staff.

QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 01:36 PM) The Mets gave up their 2 and 4 prospects in this deal IIRC. So it wouldn't be BMac and Sweeney. It would be Josh Fields and Brian Anderson if you go by Futuresox.com which is a pretty good site in terms of rating our prospects. That deal doesn't seem so bad at all. Yah, but you can't go by numbers alone. They wanted a really good young pitcher and a pretty good first baseman type of player or somebody like Ryan. Bmac and Sweeney are probably the two highest of our prospects that fit that bill, so thats who they would have asked for. Not just 2 and 4. and it is close to 2 and 4 anyway. Bmac would be 1 and Sweeney would be probably close to 4 depending on who you ask. And Petit is not 1 because Lastings Milledge is in front of him.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 01:04 PM) I agree but saying that the Marlins would ask for McCarthy and only accept him in a trade for Delgado is all just conjecture. I read somewhere that they wanted Bmac in any sort of deal for Delgado. I think they also said Bmac in any sort of deal for Pierre, which might be the funniest thing I've ever heard. They weren't a good match, because they wanted a good young starter in the mold of a Bmac or JG and we weren't going to give them up for 1 year of Delgado.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 12:49 PM) Right now, I would think that McCarthy has more trade value than Petit. He has actually pitched in the majors and has been successful. He even looked dominant in a few starts against great offenses (Boston and Texas). That has to impress teams more than minor league stats. Exactly. Which is why they asked for BMac, which is why that trade was laughable for us. He's a young, potentially dominant pitcher who could be an ACE for the next 5 or 6 years or however long we have control of him. You don't give that up for 1 year of Delgado. There are only a couple of players I would give up Bmac for and thats only in the right situation.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 12:40 PM) Sorry, you didn't sound like you thought that this was a good trade for the Mets in this post: I was talking about us. The 1-year rental only applies to us, because as was stated in the post above that we were discussing, he doesn't want to come to Chicago. That was a the whole point from our point of view as an organziation. That and BMac should be close to untradable for anyone, and thats who they wanted.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 12:33 PM) Except the Red Sox and Mets are trying to compete next season. The Marlins are dumping salary and hoping they can compete in 5 years. That's the big difference. Both the Red Sox and Mets think it's worth giving up prospects for proven talent so they can try to win a World Series next year. Jacobs + Petit + Salary for Delgado's whole deal = Good for the Mets Bmac + Sweeney for 1 year of Delgado = Incredibly bad for the White Sox Just because a trade is good for one team doesn't mean it would be a good trade for everyone. That's what I said for both Boston and NYM's deals. But you sit there and say "He thinks any trade not done by the White Sox is a horrible trade." Right, wtf are you talking about?

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 12:23 PM) Once again, I don't think you understand that prospects are unproven talent. Beckett, Lowell, and Delgado have all had good seasons in the majors. I agree that it would be hard for the White Sox to pay all of Delgado's contract but this is the Mets and Red Sox we're talking about. They have money up the wazoo. I doubt those two teams care about picking up Lowell's or Delgado's contracts. And how did you make me look dumb? I think everyone already got a good chuckle about how you would rather have Scott Podsednik than Grady Sizemore. That's just borderline insanity. There you go again. Making stuff up. Putting words in my mouth. As I explained in October, I would take Sizemroe over Pods in almost every situation. That was NOT the discussion. The discussion was that I would take Pods over Sizemore if the only place they could hit was lead off. Pods does a better job getting on base when nobodies on, steals more bases (when he's healthy), and generally f***s with the pitchers mind. He has a good OBP, a good BA, and he does everything a leadoff man should do, better or just as good as Sizemore. A little better in my opinion. You continue to ignore this, and just say that I think that Pods is better when I have categorically said otherwise many times. So please. Stop making s*** up. Stop putting words in my mouth. I'm sure I could get a chuckle out of everyone if I made up something that you said.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 12:01 PM) Jphat007 seems to think any trade not made by the White Sox is horrible. He said the same thing about the Red Sox trading for Beckett and Lowell. I don't think he realizes that prospects are really just unproven talent. They could be busts for all we know. Delgado is a sure thing. You are exactly right. "That's what they're for." Did you cry when the Sox traded Jeremy Reed and Miguel Olivo? No. I was one of the biggest backers of the deal. And you are putting words into my mouth. I never said the deal was bad for Boston, I said Beckett was not an Ace IMO and Lowell sucks. Boston gives up a lot, but they get a good 2/3 pitcher, but one that could very easily get injured and wreck their rotation. It was a good deal for a team like Boston that doesn't need prospects and can just go out and get whoever they want. It would not have been a good deal for a lot of other teams. That doesn't change my opinion on this Delgado deal either. I would not have given up BMac + Sweeney for 1-year of Delgado at 13.5 million. That is a stupid deal. And stop putting words in my mouth. You did the same thing during the playoffs and I made you look dumb then too. At least read what I say.

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 10:27 AM) So wait, you know exactly what salary we were willing to take on? The Mets were able to acquire D without using anyone (essentially, Jacobs would have been their starting 1B) from their 25 man roster. Isn't that exactly what the defending World Champion should be trying to do? Yeah he cost prospects. That's what they're for. Yah, 2 of the best prospects in the system for a 1-year rental, one that costs 12.5 million that the Mets will have to pay for him next year. Forgive me if I wouldn't do that.

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 10:10 AM) Yeah, Mike Jacobs is a Supa Stah Scouts hate Petit. But yeah, that was an unbeatable deal. They wanted a team to take most of his salary. We wouldn't do that. They wanted a team's high prospects. Petit is ranked right behind Milledge according to most minor league sites. Jacobs 4th. We would have had to give up similar prospects in our system that high. Plus Delgado didn't want to come here and would have demanded a trade in the offseason. He likes NYY much better than us. But yah, other than those small things we could have gotten him for next to nothing.

And considering he has the right to demand a trade, like Vasquez, it probably wouldn't have been a very good trade. We couldn't have come close to matching the mets anyway.

Yikes. We didn't have a chance to get Delgado over an offer like that. Not even close.

I want whatever it is that the Phils are smoking, cause its some good stuff.

Pre-All Star .197 .267 .300 .567 Player A .226 .282 .351 .633 Player B Post All-Star .275 .346 .507 .853 Player A .250 .320 .373 .693 Player B Which would you bet on having a better year the following season?

QUOTE(AnthraxFan93 @ Nov 21, 2005 -> 08:55 PM) Pauly's 2003 stats? Good call.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Nov 21, 2005 -> 08:51 PM) Lowell puts up pretty good offensive numbers and plays good defense. I would praise Allah if Crede could put up an .806 OPS. He also won't be costing the Red Sox $7.5 million a year: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2232211 They better throw in 16 million of that 18 million. Lowell is getting older and suckier. They couldn't find anyone dumb enough to take him at the deadline last year. They just found someone dumb enough, and you can rest assured that Boston's on the phone right now seeing if they can sucker in some other dumb team to take his suckiness and salary. I saw the Twins were interested. How awesome would that be. Just for fun. .236 .298 .360 .658 Nine million a year for that (little less as cash) LOL. Suckers.

QUOTE(3E8 @ Nov 21, 2005 -> 08:50 PM) .234 .305 .399 $6.25 mil ? sucks Somebody on our team? Which stats are those?

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Nov 21, 2005 -> 08:44 PM) Regardless, he's instantly the best starting pitcher in the Red Sox rotation now. Oh boy, Lowell sucks now because he had one bad season. He must have caught Juan Pierre's disease. That must mean Konerko sucks because he was horrible in 2003. :rolly .270 .339 .467 .806 $7.5 mil Lowell sucks Those are 3-year stats by the way. I didn't have hte heart to put his 2005 stats. And saying he's Boston's best pitcher isn't saying very much.