sircaffey

QUOTE(almagest @ Jan 26, 2008 -> 01:14 AM) Do you think Cain or Lincecum could be any better than a solid 3rd starter in the AL Central? I'd think that's the only reason you'd make the trade, since we already have 4th and 5th starters aplenty. How important of a factor is defense at 3B to you? To me, it's one of the least important defensive positions, with LF and 1B. Most stats point to the same conclusion, as well. I think Crede is overrated based on his defense, and that with Cabrera at SS, you won't notice too much of a drop off next year. Also, I can't really remember a game when Fields cost multiple runs, or the win, based on his defense. Can you? Teams already know Fields has trouble catching up to fastballs at times. I'm sure they had extensive scouting reports on him from the moment he came up. He adjusted, otherwise he wouldn't have put up league-average offensive numbers for a third baseman. I just think we're better off for the future, as well as in 2008, with Fields. Just because they pitch in the NL doesn't mean they'll drop significantly if in the AL. I hate that assumption. The assumption with Lowry is justified as his stuff isn't great, but Cain and Lincecum are nasty. They are 2 of the top 5 young arms in all of baseball. It doesn't matter if they pitch in the NL or AL. They are future aces whether in the NL or AL.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jan 25, 2008 -> 09:39 PM) If it were me, that's precisely what I'd try to do. Either I'd make him a long man and try to deal MMac or I'd try to deal Lowry to another team since I don't think he makes us that much better, but he'd be an ideal fit for the Phillies, Mets, any of the NL Central teams other than the Cubs, etc. I don't think you can waste Lowry in the pen if you acquire him. You either have him in the rotation, which I would, or you trade him. With how much success he's had in the NL already at age 27, you can't waste a year of his cheap contract in the pen. Deal him or start him.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jan 25, 2008 -> 10:04 PM) The only way he could get eight million is if someone paid him in Peso's. Actually, I'm thinking Yen.

UConn and @WIS the next 2 games for IU should shoot that schedule up a bit, and we'll get a better idea of what kind of team they really are.

I'd deal Fields for Cain in a heartbeat. I don't even care if Crede was healthy. I'd go with Uribe at 3B if it meant having Cain in our rotation, and I love Josh Fields.

QUOTE(Steve9347 @ Jan 24, 2008 -> 10:53 AM) Crede, Danks, MacDougal for Cain... i think Sabean takes that or at least thinks on it. He can pick anyone from the roster for Matt Cain for all I care.

QUOTE(chisox2334 @ Jan 24, 2008 -> 09:58 AM) also from rotoworld today The Mercury News reports that the Giants will monitor Joe Crede this spring, and if healthy, there's a "good chance" they could acquire him for a pitcher. The Giants have reportedly been shopping Matt Cain, who would be a solid fit in the back of a Chicago rotation that is starved for experience. Giants special assistant Ron Schueler, the former White Sox GM, has been pushing the team to acquire Crede. I think that they meant to write Noah Lowry and not Matt Cain. No one believes Matt Cain would "fit in the back of a Chicago rotation."

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jan 23, 2008 -> 05:11 PM) From what the reports I'm reading today are saying, I'm not sure he ever had surgery, but I'm almost certain he didn't have surgery at all in 2007. He partially tore a rotator cuff at the end of the 2005 season, and has spent the last 2 years trying to rehab through it. His attempts to pitch through that injury have helped build up other related problems with his elbow. Oh, I thought he had some surgery done this season. Guess not. I would have felt better had he had surgery this off season.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Jan 23, 2008 -> 02:39 PM) http://www.baseballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=732 I hate to let one report totally sour my interest in Colon, but hard to argue with that... How long has it been since Colon has started pitching? Surgery was in August right? I'd think that report would be somewhat positive to know that he was touching 94 mph through 4 innings. Not really a shock that he tires after 4 IP. Looks like his velocity is increasing though.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Jan 23, 2008 -> 03:16 PM) How much value does Lowry really have? The Giants have seemingly had him very available for a while now, and no one has pounced on it yet, so suddenly they trade him for Crede, who has virtually no value at all at this point? That would scream desperation (and probably a Sabean-type move) to get something for him, but then the White Sox are put in a position where they would have to trade him next. If he bombs, then what can they get for him? $6.75 mill is a steal for a quality starting pitcher now a days, seeing as how Marquis got that after putting up an ERA of 6 in the NL Central, but how much more can you really get for him that you can't get for Crede if he does in fact put up a terrible line? I just think you wait for Crede to prove he's healthy in the Spring and try to get a decent (like a B prospect or so, not some C level reliever in A ball) for him at that point in time. Or if you wanted s*** to get really complicated, try and bring a third team into it, but I don't see something like that happening this late in the offseason. You do know that that $6.75 mil is the total for the next 2 seasons. $2.25 mil in '08, $4.5 mil in '09, club option for 2010 at $6.25 mil. FIW, Lowry's career numbers (as SP which is basically all of them but 1 IP) vs the American League (3 vs OAK, 1 vs BOS, 1 vs NYY, 1 vs MIN, 1 vs TEX, 1 vs LAA, 1 vs TOR, 1 vs SEA, 1 vs KC, 1 vs BAL): 68.0 IP, 72 H, 27 ER, 31 BB, 44 K 3.57 ERA

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jan 23, 2008 -> 02:44 PM) Aside from Haeger, I'll disagree with all of that. I know we'd like it to not be the case, but Danks, Floyd, Broadway, and Haeger have had very little Major League success. Lowry has pitched 620 innings at the Major League level. Granted, the NL is currently down, but Lowry was very productive 3-4 years ago (when the NL was a good bit better than it is currently). Danks I could see being a similar bet, but I see no reason to believe Floyd and Broadway are better bets to succeed in the AL Central.

At this point Lowry is a better bet in the AL Central than Danks, Floyd, Broadway, Haeger, etc. It'd be wise to pick up someone we know can pitch at the Major League level.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Jan 23, 2008 -> 12:50 PM) I agree, and it looks like that is KW's plan (barring someone making a strong offer, I am sure). Uribe, I'd think, he'd be willing to deal at any time. I think if you can get a player like Lowry now, you jump on it. Just because you wait longer doesn't mean Crede's value will improve. Crede could A) either get reinjured, and have absolutely no value and you are stuck absorbing his contract or B perform horribly in ST. Afterall, he's missed a ton of time. Teams don't just want to see if he is healthy. They'd be seeing if he's lost a step or two after major surgery. Deal him at any point you can get a quality player in return.

As far as his peripherals are concerned, Lowry's BB certainly spiked last season, but the year before his BB/9 were at 3.16 which is good. He hasn't been a high K guy recently, but did K 172 a few seasons ago so there is some potential there. He's always given up near or below a H per IP. If we are trying to compete this season, we can't shuffle through our minor leaguers that are left struggling to find a consistently productive SP. Lowry's likely not going to set the world on fire, but he's already proven he can pitch at the MLB level albeit in the NL. All of our options, Danks, Floyd, Broadway, Haeger, etc. haven't proven they can even pitch in the NL. As far as the salary goes, ~$6 mil for the next 2 seasons is a great deal (not to mention an option for a 3rd season). We just gave $11 mil to an oft-injured reliever. It's definitely worth it. You can never have too much pitching. That said, I'd be surprised if we got Lowry just for Crede.

Why does everyone think he'd be crushed in the cell? His GB% of 52 last season was quite good. For comparisons, Buehrle's was 50. Vazquez's was 45. Contreras' was 50. He was equally good on the road as at home last season. He's improving (and historically, near the age of a breakout season, 27), and was having a hell of a season until straining something in his elbow. Pre-Break numbers of 107.1 IP, 96 H, 3.35 ERA. Plus he's signed very cheap for the next 2 seasons. If Danks and his 40 GB% can pitch at the Cell, then Lowry certainly can. We'd be lucky to get Lowry for Crede. We aren't getting anyone better than Lowry for Crede. I would do that deal in a heartbeat.

QUOTE(rowand's rowdies @ Jan 23, 2008 -> 11:46 AM) I like the optimism, guys. And the thought of dogs and brews at the park on a warm summer day. I'd go if the sox were 0-50 at this point. Winter sucks. Anyway does anyone like the idea of keeping what we have (maybe adding a starter low risk high reward) and shuffling players around a lot? It's not usually something major league clubs try, but why the hell not? last year we were forced because of injuries, but we didn't have this depth. let me show you what I'm thinking. Vs. RHP Day 1 (not of season, just a normal series) Cabrera - SS Swisher - CF Thome - DH Konerko - 1B Dye - RF Fields - 3B AJP - C Quentin - LF Richar - 2B Vs. LHP Day 2 Cabrera - SS Swisher - CF Crede - DH Konerko - 1B Dye - RF Fields - 3B Quentin - LF Uribe - 2B Hall - C Vs. RHP Day 3 Ramirez - CF Swisher - 1B Thome - DH Dye - RF Crede - 3B Fields - LF AJP - C Uribe - SS Ozuna - 2B Those aren't for sure, and Richar should be playing 2/3 but I left it just to show the possibilities. We've got lots of options, look at our multiple position players (to varying degrees, I know Fields isn't great in LF, etc.) Ramirez - CF, SS, 2B Dye - RF, 1B Swisher - OF, 1B Ozuna - 2B, 3B, LF Fields - 3B, 1B, LF Uribe - SS, 2B I'm sure I'm missing some. Any thoughts? It would keep players healthy and rested. The starters would get 5+ games a week still. I already hate Ozzie's Sunday lineups. This would be even worse. Why constantly not have your best lineup out there? A sub here and there is fine, but everyday is just a waste.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Jan 22, 2008 -> 11:52 PM) MacDougal threw strikes for a year and a half; otherwise, he's been pretty piss poor in his career at it. And he's never exactly been one who has been great at limiting hits. It seems he throws quite a few get me overs that are hit pretty hard, and when he doesn't throw those, he's walking people. I really don't like MacDougal; fantastic stuff, surely, but I just don't see him as a good pitcher by any stretch of the imagination, and I really doubt he ever will be good again. Perhaps with some fantastic coaching and adjustments, but I'm not even sure of that. I'm with you there. Enough with the "stuff" in the bullpen. I'd gladly swap Mac for someone of lesser stuff with better control which is why I'd love to see Broadway in there instead of Mac. At least Lance has shown to have decent control in the past, although 2007 was a bit erratic.

It's really a shame our minor league system is absolutely pathetic because Bedard and Roberts seem to be sitting there waiting to be plucked. And what a team we'd be with Bedard and Roberts [shudder]...

QUOTE(kyyle23 @ Jan 23, 2008 -> 10:03 AM) I was looking at the article stating that Dotel was 100% healthy, and this little KW gem was at the bottom We have some of the most balance? What exactly is some of the most balance? Delusional visions of Floyd, Danks, Quentin, Richar, and Contreras...

QUOTE(BearSox @ Jan 22, 2008 -> 03:53 PM) If we get Bedard, I will take back everything bad I have ever said about KW. I'd wait until you see what he gave up before making that statement.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Jan 22, 2008 -> 12:26 PM) How is it not that simple? He hit .298 in 667 ABs at AAA; his major league average falls almost 50 points at the cost of power, and that's not a reasonable explanation? I see. So Josh hits .300 in AAA, has an OBP in the .380's, and SLG .500 (which was higher than his SLG in MLB last season just with far less HR), then goes up to the majors and the Sox say to him, "Alright you're done working on stuff. Hit some home runs."? Seems to me they'd rather keep him "working on things". Point being, 373 AB is far too small of a sample size to start assuming Josh changed his approach. The man slugged .698 vs LHP which is extremely abnormal even for the game's elite let alone a 1st/2nd year player. He slugged .393 vs RHP. Neither of which should remain a constant, but by his splits you can see that going off of 2007 (MLB) to predict the future for Josh is just foolish. They are far too extreme.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Jan 22, 2008 -> 03:27 AM) No, I would say he was probably being told to work on something else in the minors. Oh I see. So the fact that Josh only hit 52 HR in 1400 minor league AB is due to focusing on something else. Now he's going to shoot right up to 40+ HR because he's now unleashed. If only it were that simple.

QUOTE(BearSox @ Jan 21, 2008 -> 10:37 PM) To be honest, the only pitcher I am banking on for us to be at least decent (ERA less then 4.5, not get knocked around every other time out) is Vazquez. Buehrle, maybe, but he has to show me he has made some changes from late last season. We really need one Floyd and/or Danks to step up big time. At this point, I'd MUCH, MUCH, MUCH rather have Garland over Cabrera. Very much agree. I'd feel a hell of a lot better with a solidified rotation rather than a good 2 hole hitter especially now that Swisher looks like he could end up hitting there.

QUOTE(gosox41 @ Jan 21, 2008 -> 11:07 PM) Not too ruin a good mood, but I'll give you 3 reasons not to get too excited: 1. Contreras 2. Floyd 3. Danks Assuming Buehrle is his usual self and Vazquez pitches as well as he did in 2007 and not 2006, one of those 3 needs to step it up to pitch 200 + innings and 15-17 wins. The other 2 have to fall in the 10-12 win category with close to 200 IP. Bob I don't think we'll see Danks or Floyd near 200 IP, and it's probably a good idea. Not because they are young and we want to protect them (although that is a good reason as well), but because those 30 or so extra innings are likely to be poor performance innings. If both can average 5.2 IP per start (~170 IP) their overall numbers should be a lot better compared to trying to stretch them an extra inning. Hand it over to the bullpen in the 6th/beginning of the 7th and be very happy.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Jan 21, 2008 -> 02:31 PM) How much you losing from it? Maybe I am putting too much faith in the organization, but I really doubt the Dotel contract is going to hinder other moves the Sox want to make in the future. As of right now, it may not hinder any future moves the Sox want to make, but they are putting a good deal of faith in Floyd, Danks, Quentin, and Richar to succeed. If any of them fail, the Sox will have to change their future plans.