sircaffey

QUOTE(lostfan @ Jan 7, 2008 -> 06:36 PM) You're starting to be on to something, but Aramis Ramirez consistently puts up FPCT in the mid to high 900s too and I don't think anyone really disputes that Crede is a better defender (just like nobody in their right mind would dispute that Ramirez is a far better hitter, and Fields too for that matter but that's another discussion). To get a full picture you'd have to account for things like zone ratings, glove reliability, arm - since Fields is a quarterback and has a f***ing rocket launcher for an arm I'd say that's the one thing he has that I'm counting on. I'm not saying that Fields is going to suck as a 3B forever, just that I don't see him ever being anything better than an average defender. I'm not talking about arbitrarily moving him either, only if certain moves are made that leave the team with another legit 3B and Konerko is gone (Swisher atm may be a really good 1B but he's the best CF on the team whether we like it or not). Ok. As long as you don't want to jump ship with Fields just because he's below average defensively right now like a lot of Sox fans seem to want to do. Let him prove he can't play the position before moving him. Aramis is also a 3B that has made tremendous strides defensively. Give it time. I think we'll all be very satisfied.

QUOTE(JoeCoolMan24 @ Jan 4, 2008 -> 02:31 AM) Well what do ya think? Im also about to make another trade... Angels get: DH Jim Thome + Cash White Sox get: CF Reggie Willits RP Dustin Moseley I then move Dye to DH, and put Swisher in RF. Willits is a bench player. What will he offer in fantasy? Thome is a stud. Or is this a videogame thing.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jan 7, 2008 -> 05:23 PM) I will take every pitcher in the top 2 levels of our organization before I take Livan Hernandez right now. And Colon, on the other hand, supposedly is not throwing 90 on the gun yet and may well be a lot more costly than we think. I think we have to get someone though. We are playing with fire with what we've got. This situation is very 2007 bullpen-ish. All potential. Colon at any speed, might be good enough to be the organization's 5th best SP. However, he's going to want to start from the getgo, something that we can't offer. That's why Freddy seems like a good option to me. He won't be ready for a while, and by the time he is ready, we should have shuffled through our SP candidates and determined whether or not they can do the job.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jan 7, 2008 -> 05:39 PM) All of JD's history indicates he is a team-first guy. If Kenny and/or Ozzie said this would make the team better, I have no doubt he would do it. Look no further than his move to SS in Oakland. JD is all team, no I.

QUOTE(Felix @ Jan 7, 2008 -> 04:02 PM) This post could have meant something if it wasn't made on the premise that fielding percentage was a good tool to determine defensive value. Granted, but it's the only stats that you can get defensively over those years as far as I know. I think it greatly shows the transformation Crede made from the beginning of his career to now.

QUOTE(Steve9347 @ Jan 7, 2008 -> 10:50 AM) I don't think that's really the "next" question that comes up. Dye has a two year contract right now and KW doesn't seem too concerned with 2010, so that's definitely not the next thought. I never said next. It is a question that should come up though.

QUOTE(Lemon_44 @ Jan 7, 2008 -> 07:17 AM) I don't understand why everyone is conceding the division to a battle between Detroit and Cleveland. I can see Detroit being the team to beat as they are monsters on paper. However, their key players, Rogers, Mags, Sheffield, Pudge, and Renteria are getting old an injuries can becaome an issue. But they are, hands down, the favorites. But, when it comes to the Indians, i see them as having a bunch of question marks and could easily be overtaken by the Sox. People question the Sox 3-5 starters. What about Cleveland? Byrd is going to be off the HGH and may heave it up there at 65 mph this year. He's as much a question mark as Contreras. Westbrook is ther #4. He's as inconsistent as anyone in the league. To me, he's Gavin Floyd with experience. Granted, he's done more than Floyd but Floyd, if he develops, has a higher ceiling. In the other spot,I'll take Danks over Laffey anyday. When it comes to the top end the rotation, Cleveland is no lock to be better than the Sox either. Sabathia is, no doubt, a stud. But you never know how many times he can pull his 300+ pound butt out to the mound and not get hurt. Carmona had a breakout year but let's see how he follows that up. Buehrle and Vasquez, assuming Javy doesn't relapse, are a very solid 1-2 punch. All things being equal, Clevelands top end is better but you know the Sox guys are going to make all their starts.As hard as it is to believe, i think the Sox have a better bullpen. Jenks vs. Borowski is a no-brainer in Jenks' favor.Linebrink is more established than Betancourt and the other guys are a toss up. In the field, i think the teams are similar. Cleveland has Sizemore and he's the best on either team. But the Indians have questions in other positions. In LF,they have a platoon system with Michaels and Delluci. They are both solid guys and would have the edge, right now, over Quentin. CF, Sizemore easily but Swisher is no slouch. In RF, i'll take Dye in abounce back year over Gutierrez. In the infield, Crede or Fields, i'll take over Casey Blake. Blake's consistent and is going to give you about .270/20/75. If Crede is healthy, there's no doubt who the better 3B is. Fields has to build on last year but he has some pretty impressive power potential. At SS, it's about a wash. Peralta is probably the better offensive player but Cabrera may be better all around. 2B, they both have youngsters and it's to early to say who is better between Richar and Cabrera. 1B, Konerko is much better than Garko, unless Garko is hitting against the Sox . Garko still gets platooned. Cleveland's catching is better than the Sox. DH-wise, Thome needs to stay in the lineup.If he does, he and Hafner are a wash. If he doesn't, Cleve is way better. Throw in the fact that the Indians have what may be the worst manager in baseball and i think these teams are pretty much dead even. I know i'm looking at this from a Sox perspective but i think it comes to down to whose bullpen performs better this year will have the better team. THe Indians are younger but the Sox hitters, at least you wouldn't think, can't have as bad a year as what they went through last year. I'll say the Tigers win the division but the Sox and Indians will be in a dogfight for the WC with NY,Bos,and Sea(i think the Angels walk away with the west). I'm just curious, but why do you think Eric Wedge is the worst manager in baseball?

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jan 7, 2008 -> 10:22 AM) Skimming the thread, why would everyone be arguing whether Swisher or Fields would become the 1B if Konerko was traded? Jermaine Dye would be the perfect candidate to be our next 1B, because it would also free up RF for Quentin, LF for Swisher, and leave CF to Figgins, or some other filler D-first type CF off of the scrapheap. Dye with his athleticism and height is a natural future 1B if you ask me. That would probably be the best move. The question then comes up do you even want Dye on this team past his current contract? I don't think I do.

QUOTE(lostfan @ Jan 7, 2008 -> 02:17 AM) Josh Fields has been playing pro ball for 4 years now. How much do you think he's going to improve on defense, realistically? It's not like hitting, where each time you move up it's harder and harder and there's adjustment required. You either can field or you can't. You can be coached to some degree but if you don't have it, you're not just going to suddenly get it when you get called up to the majors. He might one day be an average defender at 3B and that's an absolute best case scenario. Let me illustrate something to you... Joe Crede's first 7 seasons in pro ball defensively: 1996 25 errors, .857 FPCT 1997 33 errors, .905 FPCT 1998 39 errors, .929 FPCT 1999 10 errors, .910 FPCT*(injury shortened year, only 74 games played) 2000 19 errors, .942 FPCT*(Minor Leagues) 2000 1 error, .933 FPCT*(Major Leagues) 2001 20 errors, .946 FPCT 2002 15 errors, .944 FPCT*(Minor Leagues) 2002 8 errors, .938 FPCT*(Major Leagues) Fast forward to 2006: 2006 10 errors, .978 FPCT It took Joe 8 seasons to become good defensively, and some people now worship the ground he walks on. Joe wasn't born with a gold glove on his left hand. For comparison sake... Josh Fields 2007 season (3rd full season of pro ball): 2007 9 errors, .958 FPCT (Majors) Granted, Fields went to college and Crede didn't, but Fields had been splitting time with football is whole life. 3 full seasons of 100% baseball, and I think Josh could be ready to show a sizable amount of improvement very shortly.

QUOTE(lostfan @ Jan 7, 2008 -> 02:19 AM) I didn't say anything like that nor do I recall anyone else saying that. The only thing I've been saying is that Fields's liability on defense is going to be less at 1B than it is at 3B. I don't see what the big deal would be about him making mistakes while trying to learn the position, he's going to do it at 3B too. Post 263. Anyways, I think the real question is why even move him.

We finally develop a decent looking young player and people want to f*** with him instead of nurturing him. I don't get it.

QUOTE(JoeCoolMan24 @ Jan 6, 2008 -> 10:11 PM) No one is saying keep Crede all season, but it sure dosen't make any sense to dump him now while he has no value at all. Brian Anderson would bring more back than Crede right now. Give Crede a chance to prove he is healthy, then trade him come July. And of all the positions in baseball, 1B is the one that requires the LEAST amount of skill or athletism. Fields, however, has athletism and I am sure if Konerko can stretch to reach balls, then Fields would have no problem doing so. Basically I see it this way, Swisher is a better OF defensively, then Fields is a 3B defensively, so it would be better to stick Fields at 1B, then it would Swisher. Also, Crede at 3B would be much better defensively, than Fields in LF or Quentin in LF. It doesn't make any sense to make the team worse just so we can MAYBE sneak out a better prospect for Crede later in the season. In fact, if we're looking to increase Crede's value, proving that he can play 1B as well as 3B would increase his value. If he's not going to be on the team after a month or two, why would you want to stunt your best young player's progress by making him focus attention on defense at 1B if he's the team's long-term 3B? Fields already needs improvement at 3B. He certainly doesn't need to focus his attention on 1B.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jan 6, 2008 -> 09:28 PM) All this talk of how easy first base is kind of makes me laugh. Yes playing first for your beer league softball team probably doesn't require any athleticism. But playing the position in the majors requires some skill. There is this whole footwork part that everyone is glossing over. And the ability to take short hop throws and stretch while keeping on the bag is another thing. So no you cant just put anyone over at first and hope it works. Can fields do it sure, but whats the point. Oh its the Crede-4-Life coalition who is always inventing brand new ways of keeping him on this team. They were on the move Fields to left for a while no matter how much Kenny said that isn't going to happen. Now its lets get rid of Konerko and move Fields over there. For the C4L crew remember this magical formula. Crede+2007 Season Ending surgery+Bora$$+FA Year = Overwhelming HE GONE. Thank you. Not to mention defense at 1B is grossly undervalued. Seems to me you'd like a plus defender at a position that touches the ball the 3rd most times of anyone on the team.

QUOTE(Leonard Zelig @ Jan 6, 2008 -> 09:34 PM) Thanks for the warm welcome. I only asked because I read this thread and didn't remember anybody saying that he would be a GG caliber 1B this season. No one did say that. Some, however, are under the assumption that Fields would immediately become an average+ defender at 1B simply by putting him over there. It doesn't work like that, or at least it hasn't for the vast majority of people moved to 1B.

QUOTE(JoeCoolMan24 @ Jan 6, 2008 -> 09:26 PM) Fields is a below average defensive 3B. Fields in LF and Swisher at 1B is worse than Swisher in LF and Fields at 1B. Swisher PLAYS outfield, Fields does not, or at least not very well when he had to. You are hurting Swishers value by putting him at 1B (he is a good corner outfielder defensively), but you are NOT hurting Fields' value by putting him at 1B (he is NOT a good 3B defensively). Also, I am not so sure that Quentin can hit .280+ with 30 HR, 90+ RBI, and play gold glove defense. Swisher's best position is 1B. He is a very good defensive 1B. I'd gladly take a very good defensive 1B coupled with a below average LF (Fields) than an above average LF and a below average 1B (Fields). Give me the defense at 1B over LF every day of the week.

QUOTE(Leonard Zelig @ Jan 6, 2008 -> 08:51 PM) Did anybody make that claim? Fields is athlethic enough to learn the position. OMG, GREAT NEW IDEA!: Move Greg Walker to 1B defensive coach and get a new hitting coach. Yes they did. That's what lostfan and myself were discussing. Welcome to the conversation. Of course he is athletic enough to learn the position. That's not the point we were discussing, however.

QUOTE(ptatc @ Jan 6, 2008 -> 07:15 PM) Jim Thome, Billy Williams Again, Thome had 10 errors in less than a full season (140 G). Billy Williams never had a full season at 1B, but his first relatively full-time work at 1B (65 games in 1974) he committed 9 errors in those 65 games. So I ask the question again. Where is this assumption that anyone can switch to 1B and perform immediately coming from?

QUOTE(JFields27 @ Jan 6, 2008 -> 07:10 PM) Adam Dunn? Albert Pujols? Dunn from OF to 1B .. but then he went back to OF Pujols played OF and 3B and then went to 1B Yes, I'm aware of those that made the switch. I asked for those that played well immediately after the switch. Pujols had 5 errors in 43 games in his first action. Dunn had 6 errors in 44 games. Considering that Pujols is now a Gold Glove caliber defensive player, even he struggled in his first action at 1B. Keep in mind these figures don't include the mistakes not given an official error (mental mistakes, missed scoops, etc.) Just for comparison sake...Konerko made 5 errors all of last season.

Can someone point me to an example of where a player switch off a position to 1B, and performed well at 1B immediately? I know Konerko didn't. There must be some basis to your assumptions.

Yes, 1B is not a difficult position to learn, but it still takes time to learn the position. You look at the first year Konerko played 1B in the minors, he made 14 errors in 120 games which doesn't include the mistakes that aren't noted by an error. You don't just step into the position and perform. It takes time. It probably takes less time than any other position, but it still takes time. If Fields is moved to 1B just to open up a spot for Crede this year, you are going to get below average defensive production at 1B as Fields learns the position. He may become average in 2009, but then what's the point as Crede is gone after this next season. Moving Fields off of 3B is worthless.

QUOTE(lostfan @ Jan 6, 2008 -> 05:40 PM) Above average offensive 3B... below average defensive 3B. I don't particularly care how he hits in comparison to other 1Bs, esp. in the AL. Defense disadvantages mitigate offensive advantages and if you go to 1B it's just offset. He is in the lineup providing power numbers and decent speed, that's what's important. Why do people just assume you can stick any shmo over at 1B and they'll automatically be at least average defensively? There are skills needed to play there just like any other position. Fields has rarely ever played the position in his career. He's got enough defensive potential to stick at 3B, and shouldn't be moved to 1B unless we acquire a top 3B.

QUOTE(lostfan @ Jan 6, 2008 -> 05:08 PM) How exactly? As things stand now, he just plain isn't a good defensive 3B. He's an above average offensive 3B. He'd be a below average offensive 1B meanwhile adding nothing defensively.

What is all this moving Swisher to 1B decreases his value stuff? Swisher is not a long-term answer in CF and shouldn't be. He's a corner OF or 1B, and it's just as easy to find a decent corner OF as a 1B (in fact, it may be easier to find a corner OF). Swisher's best defensive position is 1B (where he is well above average), and because of that, that's where you are going to get the most value out of him. I'd much rather have B+/A- 1B than a B-/B LF or C- CF. Defense at 1B is way too often undervalued.

QUOTE(JoeCoolMan24 @ Jan 6, 2008 -> 01:35 PM) 1B is the easiest position to move to. Konerko is an average defensive 1B and we have never had problems. Put Fields there, and he will be fin.e Swisher going to 1st hurts his value, he is a very gifted athlete, Corner OF would get better value out of him. Quentin better offensively than Crede? Mind you he had surgery so you wont see terrible numbers like in 07. I would rather see Crede's great glove down at 3rd then dump him off while he has absolutely no value. At least give him until the all-star break before you trade him. And Quentin can survive 1 year of platooning in the OF, its not like he is never going to get a shot. Moving Fields to 1B hurts his value as well. If you want Crede in the lineup and Quentin out, the best thing would be to use Swisher at 1B which is his best position by a good margin and Fields in LF. Either way, you are hurting someone's value. You can disagree with the assessment of Quentin being a better offensive player than Crede it's fine. It's all opinion at this stage. Neither is exactly in great shape health wise. When healthy, I'll take Quentin's bat over Crede's every day of the week.

QUOTE(JoeCoolMan24 @ Jan 6, 2008 -> 01:01 PM) If we trade Konerko, why does Swisher move to first? Trade Konerko and try to get Willits and Shields. Or some CF and pitcher. Then set us up like this... LF - Swisher CF - Willits RF - Dye 3B - Crede SS - O-Cab 2B - Richar/Uribe whatever 1B - Fields DH - Thome Instead of moving Swisher to 1B and still having to play Quentin in left, why not move Fields to 1st, and keep Crede with us. And in the event that Crede needs a day off for his back, you move Fields to 3rd, Swisher to 1st, and Quentin then in LF. Am i missing something? Why hasn't this been mentioned? First, Swisher is a very good defensive 1B. Second, Fields doesn't play 1B. Third, Quentin will be a better offensive player than Crede.