sircaffey

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Dec 20, 2007 -> 04:12 PM) You know this how? You're right. I don't know this. Guess I can't say the Royals won't contend either.

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Dec 20, 2007 -> 04:06 PM) Cabrera gives the Sox great defense up the middle along with a veteran to help Richar. He also is a huge upgrade in smarts and offense over Uribe. He is a huge upgrade over what the Sox had and does a lot for this team. I think you are highly overrating that trade chip. He may have been the biggest, but that is hardly saying much. I can see you want this to turn out to be horrendous, but I am planning on seenig why it will turn out to be a great trade. Great so we'll be basking in the upgrade next season while we fail to contend. Just what this organization needed.

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Dec 20, 2007 -> 04:07 PM) They are always right. Damn Borchard and Brian Anderson turned out to be a couple of stud players didn't they? Actually the Sox are 25th on the list. What is the point of your comment? They tend to know a little something about prospects.

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Dec 20, 2007 -> 04:04 PM) 90 loss team last year. By whose standards do we have the 2nd worst farm team in major league baseball? Yet, still teams want our minor league talent and people here don't want to give it up. So strange to me. If it is that bad then trade all those f***ers for any kind of major league talent you can get. Baseball America

The point being regarding the Garland trade is that it does nothing to solve any of the problems this organization has. So we'll score a few more runs next season. We'll give up a few more runs next season. With either Garland or Cabrera this team is not making the playoffs. You don't trade your BIGGEST TRADE CHIP for someone that won't ever help you win a division. When Cabrera is gone after an 80 win 2008 season, you'll see why it was a horrendous trade.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Dec 19, 2007 -> 12:15 PM) Well the scouting report says he hits 92-93 consistently, occasionally hitting 95. Perhaps he was more customarily around 90-91 last year, but I seem to recall him hitting 93-94 more than a few times. "Physically, Floyd is close to being a perfect pitching prospect. He is tall and lanky, but not too thin. He has both a strong upper body and strong legs. His fastball can hit 95 mph, and is a consistent 92-93 mph offering, with movement." http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?id=1794552 Regardless, the point is that Floyd does not have "below average pitches." You misread what I said. I said they also have below average pitches. Floyd's fastball and curve are not below average. His other pitches are.

QUOTE(BearSox @ Dec 19, 2007 -> 08:47 PM) What's that suppossed to mean? I'm not very high on pitchers who no longer can hit 90 and who's stride is too short. Plus, Votto is a beast. You honestly don't know what Hamilton will bring in the future at this point. Yes he was a very highly touted prospect, but 298 AB after all that trouble isn't enough to bet the house on. Votto is very very good, and I personally love him, but we would need to get another solid prospect in addition to Hamilton and Votto to make it worth it. Cueto, Hamilton, and Votto would be a hell of a deal for us.

I would be a hell of a lot more excited to watch the team next season if we had youngsters like Votto, Quentin, Hamilton, Richar, Fields, and whoever else we get for Paulie, Buehrle, and Dye than watching the current team to tell you the truth.

QUOTE(DonnyDevito @ Dec 18, 2007 -> 09:44 PM) Floyd and Danks actually have plus pitches though. that is the thing. Garland doesn't have plus anything. Floyd and Danks also have below average pitches. Garland is at least average across the board, and he can throw each for strikes. Danks and Floyd can't.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Dec 18, 2007 -> 11:57 PM) You are forgetting Rafael Perez in Cleveland. And Juan Rincon sucks. It's all about Neshek and Guerrier now a days. And Perkins if they don't move him back to the rotation.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Dec 18, 2007 -> 06:26 PM) Part of me doesn't even want Bedard...I'd be quite happy with Roberts.... Why would you not want Bedard given the current rotation the Sox have? The price?

I'd rather take another class A reliever.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Dec 18, 2007 -> 02:17 PM) It certainly seems like we are much more in need of Bedard and Roberts than the Cubs are... I've been extremely pessimistic for the upcoming season, but if we got Bedard and Roberts, that pessimism would turn to optimism in a hurry.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Dec 17, 2007 -> 10:51 PM) And Gavin Floyd is a better pitcher than he was when he was with Philadelphia. Why must you hold onto previous experience? Players change and improve, or they get the hell out. Floyd is starting to improve. I hope you're right, but Gavin did the same thing with Philly. He came up in 2004 and showed flashes in a handful of quality outings like he did with us at the end of last season. The next 2 seasons he bombed.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 18, 2007 -> 11:51 AM) Enough people will. People will still want their teams to win baseball games, so enough people will turn a blind eye and accept those explanations. If the Cubs traded for Roberts tomorrow, do you think that there'd be an outcry from their fans who think he's lying? They will now, but when 40 of the 80 names in the Mitchell report say they used it once, for a couple days, or to get over an injury, the people still believing the players need a stiff slap upside the head.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 18, 2007 -> 11:14 AM) If I was named in that report but I wanted people to still believe in me, perhaps the best possible thing I could do would be to claim I just used it once or twice, like all of them are doing now. That way, I could still claim that the numbers were my own, I could still claim to be a decent human being, and I could take advantage of the fact that people will forgive you if you admit a mistake. Even if I'd used as much as Bonds, I might still say "Yes, I just used it one time" if they didn't have the laundry list of checks on me, and I might be able to get away without a suspension or without too many boos. Exactly. It's smart, but when all these players are going to start saying the same thing, no ones going to believe it.

QUOTE(bucket-of-suck @ Dec 18, 2007 -> 02:39 AM) Not a bad position to be in. It gives us flexibility. If we want to resign OC, we do it. If we walks, the Sox then own two first-round draft picks in 2009 and a sandwich pick. I'll take it. The notion of this franchise having extra draft picks does not excite me in the least.

QUOTE(Shadows @ Dec 18, 2007 -> 10:59 AM) Man this s*** is getting so lame.. First of all, if Roberts injected steroids ONCE and then said "This is wrong" and never did it again he would get zero benefit from it. You cant just squirt one needle into yourself and turn into a stud you have to take cycles of it. So if he really did only do it once and never again he doesnt even need to be on this list, he didnt do anything to enhance his performance via steroids. Exactly. This thing is going to go on like this. We all know that the steroid era was out-of-control, yet all these guys use it just once, for two days, or just to get over an injury. My ass. No one uses steroids for one injection. Perhaps by once, Roberts meant one cycle. That's the only thing that makes sense.

We don't need anymore free-agents-to-be.

QUOTE(CanOfCorn @ Dec 17, 2007 -> 05:12 PM) Not saying they should, but he's still young, only 32 I believe, and yes, he has a bad hip, but if he can work on that during the offseasons, he might be able to fight it off a little. Also, $12mil/year is relatively cheap for a good middle of the order hitter. Some team might want him for DH? They aren't going to get a lot of top notch prospects, but if they can get a good package that helps to restock our system with mayb one major league ready player and one that's a year away plus a bunch of lower level prospects, and by bunch, I mean 2-3 depending on how good they are, I would be inclined to take a good hard look. I think Konerko will be kept as well for the duration of the contract at least. He'll be our next DH when Thome's contract is up. By that time, Konerko's defense will have deteriorated enough to were he warrants being a DH. I think that's the path KW has Konerko on.

QUOTE(Vance Law @ Dec 17, 2007 -> 03:33 PM) He gets full no-trade protection in May I believe. Yes sir. Any indications of where he might accept a trade to? Both LA clubs perhaps, but if we don't trade Pauly before May we might as well keep him for a while because we'll lose a bunch of bargaining power.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Dec 17, 2007 -> 03:43 PM) Well KW was wrong, but that wasn't the only thing he was wrong about going into last season; I think it's pretty much the consensus of the board that last year was terrible. The move I absolutely hated was Erstad, and my fears were unfortunately correct. They resigned Uribe as an insurance policy in case they could not bring in a shortstop. That, too, was a miscalculation on his part. He was not resigned to a $4.5 mill deal with the intent to have him be a bench player. Orlando Cabrera is going to be a Type A free agent; thus, if the Sox offer him arbitration, they'll almost certainly get two draft picks for him (as he almost certainly won't accept an offer of about $9 mill when his reputation will more than likely get him a multi-year deal at around $11 mill per). If they resign him, they have a shortstop for the next 3-4 years. That looks quite a bit like building towards the future, even if said player is on the wrong side of 30. Linebrink isn't building towards the future, but it's not a burden of a contract. Two years from now it will be moveable, and he is an upgrade in the bullpen. The only downfall of the deal is the loss of the 2nd rounder. He is an upgrade to the team - a pretty significant upgrade - and KW feels the downgrade from Garland to Floyd is not going to be that significant. We shall see about that. But when KW says "we have a pretty darn good team," what does that mean exactly? It's a statement that's vague as hell that the average person interprets as "the White Sox are going to be good" but what one who looks into what he's done and what he's saying says "good can mean a lot of things." I do like how you make no mention of the moves for Richar and Quentin. Did he just make those moves because he felt compelled to do so? because he's building for the short-term? There's no way KW feels this team is going to win the division, and I don't think you'll ever see him make a statement that says quite that. Any statement he makes will be vague as hell and will have many, many different interpretations with only one of those really being correct. Until Uribe is traded then he's an improvement to the bench. None of us know if he was insurance or not. That is purely speculation. In fact, it's entirely possible that he resigned Uribe knowing he was going to make the Cabrera trade in a few days. Yes, I know Cabrera will be type A, but that does not mean acquiring him was a move for the future. He's said he does not want to sign an extension before hitting the market. So looks like we will have to compete with everyone else which we could have done without trading Garland for him. If we wanted him for the future, we could have signed him after this coming year, but we also wanted him to compete in 2008. Why else acquire a rental player? Re: Quentin/Richar...You seem to be missing the point. The point here is not that he is NOT keeping an eye on the future, it's that he's also trying to compete this year, and is making moves under the assumption that he can compete this year. One last thing, just because KW was out trying to make big moves(signing Hunter, trading for Miguel) does not mean he does not think his current team can win. In 2006, he went out and got Thome and Vazquez. Did he do that because he thought his current reigning World Series Champs couldn't win? Of course not.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Dec 17, 2007 -> 01:58 AM) Morons don't graduate from Stanford. But seriously, is he supposed to say that he feels the team is going to suck? No, he's going to try and build off of the 2005 and 2006 season; the bandwagon fan brings in mad revenue. You can also count me in as one of the people who thought the bullpen last year was going to be very good. It failed; whoop dee s***. I don't recall you being here clamoring over how bad it was going to be. There's no way he thinks this is a good team; why do you think he didn't jump to conclusions and bring in Rowand or Jones? or why he hasn't strengthened the bench or brought in depth to the middle of the infield? The opportunity has presented itself, and those moves would have pushed a team that is "close" to "over the top;" if he really felt this team was that good, why would he have not made one of those moves? Why? He's been a bad GM, but don't confuse Ken Williams with a moron; look beyond the black and white and read into his moves (or lack there of) and his reasons for saying the team will be good. It's a business, and all he's trying to do is maximize profit. If the team sucks, but people still show up, it's still money in the bank. Dishonest, absolutely, but it's money all the same. Beyond that, the trade for Orlando Cabrera puts the Sox in a slightly better position to rebuild the minor league system through the draft or give the Sox a cog at SS for the next few years. Garland would have had to have repeated his 2005 performance to get anywhere close to that. I don't think he thinks the Sox are good, and all he has done this offseason is put the Sox in a position to compete if Jerry Owens learns how to turn water into wine. His moves suggest that he's building towards the future, and he hasn't brought in any contracts that will damper the team's chances in the long-run. First, KW didn't graduate from Stanford. I'm not saying Kenny is a moron. In fact, it appears he's a very articulate, intelligent man. There are many intelligent articulate baseball fans. That doesn't mean they would make good GMs. As far as the bullpen goes, you would have to have a hell of a memory to remember what little old me thought of the bullpen. It doesn't matter what I thought because I'm not getting paid to make the decisions. KW did strengthen the bench and the middle infield. He brought in Cabrera forcing Uribe to the bench. He didn't bring in a CF, yet, because the ones that he wanted were too expensive. You can't get around the budget no matter what you think of your team. I don't see how bringing in a 33 year old SS and locking in an aging middle reliever for $19 mil is "building towards the future." If he was building for the future, he would have gotten a package for Garland that was meant for the future. He would not have brought in a player that would only be under contract for one season if he didn't think this team could compete in 2008. Generally you don't bring in players on the downside of their careers if you are building for the future, do you? If you really think Garland was traded for Cabrera because of the extra draft pick you are grasping for straws. If KW really cares about the draft picks and building for the future, why did he sign a type A free agent middle reliever forfeiting an even higher pick? Sorry, I don't buy this crap that these moves were made for the future.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Dec 16, 2007 -> 11:47 PM) Are you f***ing kidding me right now? He didn't think it needed major changes, yet was in the Torii Hunter bidding until the end and tried to acquire Miguel Cabrera? KW realizes this team sucks, missed out on his targets, and is giving the company line right now to keep fans interested so he won't lose revenue. He also realizes it will take nothing short of a mini-miracle for this team to compete, but he's not about to tell that to the media. KW's failed the two past offseasons, but he's not a moron people. If you think so, you need to do some checking yourself. He didn't just luck his way into a degree from Stanford. What does Stanford have to do with anything? They offer scouting classes there? A person who couldn't get into your local community college could be the best GM out there as long as he evaluates baseball talent well and knows what it takes to create a good baseball team. Our GM is the same one that believed our bullpen was going to be very good last year. It sucked. Stanford didn't help much in that department, did it? There is little doubt in my mind that KW believes he has a good team. Whether he still believes we can compete after the moves DET made, I don't know. But he thinks this is a good team, no doubt.

QUOTE(bigruss22 @ Dec 16, 2007 -> 07:18 PM) THe Giants dont want to give dump Roberts that much, youre talking about two of the best young pitchers in the game, no way youre going to get both, you can get one, but both together is 99% untouchable I highly doubt we could even get just one for Konerko.