Rex Hudler

I do understand what you are saying Yas, even though I have not lived it. BUT, rather than fight the current situation, why not try and change it somehow? You can't force out the owner so why not try and support the White Sox in any way possible? I believe the problem is that there are not enough Sox fans or there are not enough that do support them. The attendance numbers reflect that. In the years the Sox have been winning and attendance has gone up, do you really think it is the die-hard fans that caused the spike in attendance? My guess is no. When a team wins, the more casual fan gets involved. Maybe the number of die-hards has decreased for the very reasons you describe. All I know is that as long as Reinsdorf is the owner, things won't change unless someone swallows some pride and makes a difference. If that can't be done, then expect more of the same.

Catch is, with shoulder surgery, a full recovery is not always in the cards. Tommy John surgery is much more predictable in terms of recovery than shoulder surgery. I will be very broad here and not talk about Rauch specifically. There are many things that fans do not know about players. Some are cocky, some are humble. Some have competitive fire, others do not. Some do drugs. Some drink excessively. Some work hard. Some follow the conditioning programs, some do not. Some think they can turn it on at game time and cruise the rest of the time. Others work their asses off to try and learn, get better. Some work hard in rehab after an injury. Others go through the motions. Some are immature. Some are more worried about getting laid than focusing during the game. Some are just dumb when it comes to how to play the game and can't think for themselves. You have to understand that players are humans and they react differently and think differently just like you would find if you took any group of 25 random males. Add to the fact that most of them have always been the best at what they do and have generally been coddled. Most are always told how great they are by the people around them. People handle success and failure differently, some better than others. They are not robots. So there are many ways that a player's "makeup" can affect his on-field performance. I am not going to get into Rauch specifically, because it has been 3 years since I have seen him pitch or been around him. People can change. They can grow up. I do know that I am not the only person I have ever heard questioning whether he will ever make it, or at least make it with the kind of success he seemed destined for. All that said, I hope he does make it and is very successful. I'll leave it at that.

When he was in Birmingham that is where he was..... also, keep in mind that TV readings tend to be higher

I never saw 95.... at least not consistently. He was more of a 90-92 guy.

In my mind, Rauch's stuff will be exposed once hitter adjust to his height..... not crazy about his mental makeup either.

You forgot one BIG difference............ Michael Jordan could play basketball. Not quite so in baseball.

Its not that any one of those expectations are unreasonable. I just think that all three of them meeting them in what is essentially their rookie year is asking a lot. Once again, I hope you are right. But there are often growing pains with young pitchers. Plus, I am not sold on Jon Rauch. I think he was hyped too much because of one great year (and great it was).

I didn't know he was gone.........

IF the Sox are a part of the city of Chicago, don't you think Chicagoans should support them win or lose? Maybe I am just way off here, but to me a fan is not someone that only buys tickets when he is happy with the free agents the team signed or the amount of money they spend. A fan is someone who roots for the name on the front of the jersey as much as the one on the back.

Fun, is that what you call it?

Unless I mis-interpreted quickman's post, I think he ment time to rebuild the farm system, not rebuild the Sox. I think we would all agree that rebuilding the farm system is a good idea and that we don't have the depth to go with another "youth movement" in the Bigs. I have no problem with the cheap shot. I can take it. I am no expert by any means..... nor are scouts. That is what makes scouting such an inexact science and why stats have become more prevalent in evaluating talent. But I do know how to read a radar gun. I believe you are referring to Ryan Rodriguez? If I am thinking about the right player, he was injured early in the year and wasn't healthy until about halfway through the short season. Instead of throwing him in there with pitch counts, I believe the Sox chose to keep him in Arizona throwing in rehab games and then sent him to Instructional League in the fall. Doing this saved them a contract year or something. I can't remember the exact explanation. Another strong pitcher that missed this whole season was Daniel Haigwood, the LH from Arkansas that had a huge debut in 2002. He tore his ACL, I believe so his injury was not pitching/arm related.

We can agree to disagree on some issues. I think we agree more than you think, though. It just seems like to me there is this standoffish attitude with Sox fans against Reinsdorf. They won't come unless he does certain things. I don't pretend to know the full history nor have lived the full history which pits Sox fans against their owner. But from the outside looking in, it seems like something needs to give. Reinsdorf isn't going to until he sees an indication that it will be worth it. Until then, he will run the team on what he sees as a reasonable budget and trust his staff to put together a team that can win under those guidelines. So my question is, why can't Sox fans (i know i am speaking in a big time generality) not rally around their team, in spite of its owner? Why not support the team avidly whether they are in first place or third? Why not understand that it will be that support that will get them closer to what they want, at least theoretically (good baseball decisions still have to be made)? A wise man once said that doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result is the definition of futility. Why not see that until someone budges, the results aren't going to change? Perhaps it is time for someone to do something different. I know this not an association Sox fans that can vote to better support the team, so this is all more theoretical than realistic, but it seems to me, that there needs to be a way to get the Sox out of the rut of low attendance. Sure the Sox are not free of blame. But rather than sitting back and waiting for someone else to change, why not, in the spirit of supporting the team you love, make a bigger commitment to do something that the fans can control? That is show up more and be more committed than ever.

I believe once he found out he was facing Tommy John surgery, that was the icing on the cake. He won't be back in a baseball uniform.

Obviously, nothing.

I think you missed my point. A thin farm system can still produce, there is just less margin for error or injury. The point is, with a greater margin for error, the chance of the system helping the Major League club is greater. I think you are a bit ambitious in hoping that Rauch, Cotts and Pacheco will all produce for the big club this year at the levels you mentioned. Unless of course, the season falls apart and they go with youngsters. I hope you are right, but I don't think the odds of all three giving the Sox that kind of contribution this year is very strong. I don't understand your point in chiming in on the Wylie issue. From the very beginning, it was stated that Wylie has a very marginal chance of making the Big Leagues. So what is your point in stating the same in a manner to imply that I am wrong? Did you forget what you read??

Let's see....... he had an elbow injury and was facing Tommy John surgery which would have meant he would have missed all of this coming season. Obviously, his baseball career wasn't progressing. He was an All-American football player in HS from Louisiana. Getting an opportunity to play for your State school has definite appeal. I don't see anything here to indicate this was a bad career move. At worst, it gets him a free college education.

Well tell us more, since you seem to know all about JR's books. How much does he make each year? After expenses are gone, how much net profit is there? How much more profit would you expect if he spent an extra $20 million on players? If you have all the answers, let's hear em.

That was reported back in August. He has been playing at LSU all year. All anyone had to do is go to LSU's website in September to see this. Phil must be a little slow these days. LOL

It is more that some people think they can decipher everything about a player by his stats (which are helpful) and and a few scouting reports (which are also helpful, yet not always accurate). Whether it is a lack of respect or always having to be right, I don't know, but it would seem to me that having seen a player many times over the course of two seasons would lend a bit of credibility. quick, I don't think the Sox system is as bad as you think, but it is pretty thin at the top and the trades that were made last season didn't help. But I do think the Sox have a lot of good young talent from the past two drafts, so help should be on the way. I have not seen any of those guys, so it is hard to give specifics about any of them, however. We'll see if they can continue to improve and if reality matches the hype.

So if it were your money, you'd just drop another $20 million?? Sounds so easy when it isn't your money.

http://www.sportspages.com is very good. It basically provides links to sports columns and articles from every newspaper in the country.

You keep rehashing the same absurd s***...... and it still proves nothing. Believe what you want to. I know what I know and what I see and will stand behind that all day long.

Its hard to say what kind of money he might get in arbitration because the current market is so uncertain. My guess is around $5.13 million.

Take who's word you want, but I have seen him pitch more than any one you are quoting. If you can't comprehend the fact that I can sit with a scout and see the radar gun consistently at 91-92 when he pitches, then you are hopeless. I would rather you say "wow, Rex, I had heard he didn't throw that hard, I'm surprised to find out different", but you can't because you are the one that always has to be right, which is idiotic. Doesn't matter what YOU hate...... if you want to site numbers rather than knowledge gained from actually watching someone pitch, then look into the numbers. If you don't understand the difference between a guy that was very good for 22 games and s***ty for 2 and a guy that was consistently average, then you are looking at the game with blinders on. Jeff Bajenaru this year had an ERA of 3.20. His ERA was 2.15 minus one outing in which he gave up 8 runs in two innings. He was left out there because the game was out of hand and the bullpen was taxed. He basically took one for the team. If you don't think the Sox and "those who are paid preofessionally to scout" don't take things like that into consideration, then you don't understand the game at all. Hide behind stats all you want, but you can find out more by looking into those numbers and watching the player play. Hopefully one day you will understand that. Okay, take away his two best and his two worst and his ERA was 3.76, still more than respectable. I said that. But because a guy got injured one time doesn't make him injury prone. It means he got injured. Simple as that. But to try and use his numbers while he is recovering from an injury, you are using skewed numbers. To say he sucks because he had a 4.76 ERA in 2002 when that was based on 6 games and an injury IS assinine, whether you can see it or not. It does when I can watch him throw 91-92 with my own eyes, consistently. You act like I saw him pitch one time.... Hate to break it to you, but that is the pot calling the kettle black. You think you know everything and are not open to new information. That is not my problem. And sure, I've been wrong before. But I generally am not because I pick and choose my battles. I generally find I am wrong before I decide to post something, but if I am wrong, I admit it. So how many times have you seen Mitch Wylie pitch?? How many times have you watched a radar gun measure his speed?? Perhaps you should hold off forming opinions on guys you have actually seen. The stupid part of all of this is that I think Mitch has a so-so chance of making the big leagues and you think he has none. We are splitting hairs, but because you refuse to believe I have actually seen the guy pitch a time or two and know that he is not a "junkballer", you have to try to prove me wrong. This whole conversation has been stupid and began because you can't be open to new information because you always have to be right. Get a life!

And before you get too far into your research to try and prove me wrong, tell me you aren't trying to evaluate a guy based on the numbers you gave. The 4.76 was in 6 games before he was hurt and had to have surgery. The 4.40 ERA was in his rehab year where he started in the bullpen working two innings and worked up to starting. His whip was 1.22 which is respectable. Then again, I think I already mentioned all of this before.