RockRaines

Way too early top 25 for 2014 http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball...lege-basketball

QUOTE (iamshack @ Apr 9, 2013 -> 09:57 AM) Well, Jay Bilas and several other commentators would disagree, but whatever...I do realize they have been calling it this way for years now, so it's nothing new. If they blew a whistle for every touch people would be on here saying the game had no flow. They made some ridiculously horrible calls all night like the goaltending and foul on Burke, but they also let the kids play and dictate the outcome for the most part. The play in the paint in the second half was who wanted it more.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Apr 9, 2013 -> 09:34 AM) But the officiating did favor Louisville's style of play, which eventually wore down Michigan...whereas if they would have called a tighter game, then the game gets played more along Michigan's style and they win the game. What drives me nuts about college basketball is that they allow the teams that pressure to foul constantly. The play that stands out is when they allow the pressuring defenders to ride on the ball handler's hip as he brings the ball up the court. Coaches have done a very good job of teaching their defenders to then lean on the ball handler. Now I don't know how much you play full court basketball, but it is incredibly annoying to have a defender leaning on you and pushing you as you try to bring the ball up the court. And if the ball handler slows down to try and shake the defender, then the defense brings over another defender to trap. Once a team gets a trap on, the officials will almost never call a foul. So instead, the ball handler is rushing the ball up the court with a defender riding and leaning and pushing him, which is where you see the errant pass or the out of control drive to the basket, where another defender suddenly slides over right as the offensive player leaves the ground to attempt the shot, and a charge is called. And so much of it stems from the one play that the refs do not call...all they have to do is refuse to allow the defender to ride the ball handler and so much of this would go away and then we'd have basketball again... Or he could pass, or run the guy off a screen. Thats basketball. The refs allowing Big Ten type ball should have favored Michigan. But once again they decided to not play defense and watch Burke dribble. Lou's guards are tiny little things, if that bothered them so much why didnt they just have one of their bigger guys bring up the ball? I didnt notice that being an issue at all. Physical play is the way we see our teams play week in and week out. MSU has won titles based on that style.

And as much as I liked the Fab Five, why weren't they actually celebrating the team that won the title? Where was Glen Rice? Such a jinx to keep showing the team that came up short twice and then was the reason you had to take banners down.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Apr 9, 2013 -> 07:18 AM) Rock, I don't know how you can see how poorly that game was officiated and not think the outcome of the game was affected. This wasn't one or two plays they messed up...this was literally 15-20 calls that were very questionable....beginning to the end... Oh well... Because it wasn't lopsided at all. If anything Michigan got the benefit because they were in the bonus the entire second half. The officiating didn't cause Michigan to stand around and watch Burke dribble nor did it cause them to stop playing defense entirely. If anything they had the chance to be more aggressive as that's the way the game was called. There were 6 losses in conference play that looked a lot like last night.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Apr 8, 2013 -> 11:23 PM) I don't dispute your points about the coaching...but a tighter called game leads to a more open game, which I thought Michigan would have won. It wasn't until Louisville (and frankly, many of the favorites in games throughout the tournament) were allowed to foul, I mean pressure, where their guards are allowed to ride the ball handler, rebound without any regard for position, etc, that the game forcibly turned into the style of play Louisville thrives in. You think whatever you want. I certainly don't have to agree with an Ohio State fan about a Michigan game. Lol, Michigan would have won me a hefty sum tonight. Nice try though. I haven't seen much b****ing about the refs influencing the outcome of the game anywhere except right here. It was a great almost wide open game. And the better team won.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Apr 8, 2013 -> 11:12 PM) Did you watch the game? As big as the disparity was, it could have been far worse... Yes every second. When a team gets into foul trouble they back off. Michigan and especially McGary got away with a lot. Somehow the fouls were 2 to 1 against Lou. I saw the overall number one seed beat a good not great Michigan team that got hot. They spent the second half watching Trey Burke play. I've seen that Michigan team lose many games this year. They weren't beaten by the refs, they were beaten by a better team, and frankly better coaching down the stretch.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Apr 8, 2013 -> 10:55 PM) I disagree. The refs have allowed teams that want to play rugby to turn the game into a rugby game whenever they choose. That is the reason Wichita almost lost to Ohio State and it is the reason they lost to Louisville. And now it was the reason Michigan lost tonight. They have to call the fouls consistently, even if it means they are going to be blowing the whistle constantly on the offending team. It is human nature to not want to constantly call infractions over and over, but that allows a team to dictate a style of defense that has a cumulative negative effect on the opposing team. I just don't care (and never have) for allowing a style of play that is not within the rules because you don't want to have to blow your whistle on them every trip down the court. That game was a joke, and I haven't even gotten to ridiculous calls they blew, they called about the only clean block of the game a foul, they assigned fouls to the wrong players, they allowed guys to block balls that had bounced 6 inches off the glass already, kicks...what an all-around piss-poor job. So they let Louisville win by calling more fouls on them?

What a game, better team won but what a run by Michigan. Inconsistent refereeing was annoying but didn't have all that much to do with the outcome. Sad the season is over. I guess football is next.

QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ Apr 8, 2013 -> 05:12 PM) I think it's respectful, not an outdated tradition. Me too, however I didnt do it. I knew that he couldnt keep the secret, so I told no one.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Apr 8, 2013 -> 09:54 AM) So I was watching Chicago Fire last night with the girlfriend, and since the show takes place in Chicago, and of course they want to add in some local flavor to each episode, last night they had a scene where the firefighters were in the station watching baseball games. They were arguing about the Cubs vs the Sox while watching a Sox game. Then one guy shouts out "Be quiet, I am trying to listen to 'The Hawk.'" Dead give away that the writers have no clue... Better than most. The fire station is just south of little italy, the bar that is always filmed is lottie's in bucktown.

Congrats Michigan. Shows how deep the conference is.

QUOTE (whitesoxfan99 @ Apr 5, 2013 -> 04:36 PM) You do realize that John Shurna led the Big 10 in scoring last year right? Adam Morrison>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>John Shurna. The Big 10 was better this year than last year but this argument is pretty ridiculous. Appreciate the input. I disagree.

QUOTE (whitesoxfan99 @ Apr 5, 2013 -> 04:33 PM) Ager was a first round pick. Not sure how that helps your argument. I was stating a fact, what was it supposed to help?

QUOTE (Boogua @ Apr 5, 2013 -> 04:28 PM) Ah, you're saying the B1G would be too physical for him in conference. That's a better point, but the B1G is always pretty physical and he put up 43 on MSU that year. This argument is trivial though. At least the Thomas debate will play itself out. Conference play in general. I know you are hanging your hat on an early season contest vs MSU in which no defense was played in 3 OT's, but I dont think thats a good barometer. The Thomas situation I think wont prove out until about 3-4 years from now. By then we'll have forgotten all about it. BTW, this guy dropped 36 in that game: http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/2982/maurice-ager Probably safe to say Brown and Pargo were the only real NBA guys in the game I guess.

I know McGary has said he's coming back, but I just saw he's the #2 scorer and #1 rebounder left in the final four. Is that correct? He's probably playing himself into a top 10 pick.

QUOTE (Boogua @ Apr 5, 2013 -> 04:22 PM) Athletes in the NBA>>>>>>>> athletes in this year's B1G. Also no team in the B1G this year had more NBA players than that team Morrison went 10-17 against in an NCAA tournament game when he was every team's focal point on defense. We can just agree to disagree. Tournament games have about 0% to do with conference play.

QUOTE (Boogua @ Apr 5, 2013 -> 04:00 PM) This is obviously all speculation though and I know you're sticking up so hard for him because you're a big Ohio State guy. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out though. Actually if you look at the NCAA threads I am tougher on him than most folks, I just dont think you've watched much of him other than the occasional game or a few his first few years. As the only scoring option he forces it at times which hurts his percentages, however nobody has shown the ability to shut him down regardless of who was guarding him. And thats in the best defensive conference in America with coaches who have been game planning against him for 3 years. The NBA game will suit him because of open looks. He'll be a good stretch 4, post up 3 coming off the bench for stretches of time. Probably nothing more than that. The guy has this knack or 6th sense for finding the ball and scoring it, its hard to explain unless you watch the guy play alot.

QUOTE (whitesoxfan99 @ Apr 5, 2013 -> 03:54 PM) Disagree on Morrison. He sucked in the NBA but that guy would have scored in bunches against the Big 10. He scored 43 against MSU, 43 against a really good Washington team with Brandon Roy, 34 against a Memphis team that won 33 games and made the Elite 8, 25 on Maryland, 24 on UCLA, etc. I dont think he ends up as a top 3 scorer in the Big Ten this season. He obviously couldnt get much going against athletes in the NBA.

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Apr 5, 2013 -> 02:32 PM) Hopefully Mike Morse can be tamed this series. He scares me. The roids arent nearly as effective at night in the cold.

QUOTE (Boogua @ Apr 5, 2013 -> 03:21 PM) Chad Ford has him projected as a mid to late second round pick/undrafted. So it's not that far-fetched. So no, not clearly. Yeah, because Morrison wouldn't have done well in any other conference. He played a B1G team in Maui that year I think. He put up what, 43? If you don't think Morrison would have played well in any conference that year I don't know what to tell you. That is just absurd. His last game he played a UCLA team chock full of NBA players and still went 10-17 with 24 points. I can't believe that's what you got out of the Morrison comparison. Fair enough though. He is a very below average defender. I'm sure he's gotten better, but he's still way below average. Sometimes he doesn't even try. Sullinger would have been drafted higher if he didn't have injury concerns. He also averaged 3.8 PPG and 4 RPG in the 5 games when he started. Yes, he clearly transitioned well to the NBA. Sullinger averaged 7 and 7 in 23 min in Jan before his back went out. Funny enough his back hurt him enough in his last few games to have surgery. And no, I dont think Morrison would be a dominant force in this years Big Ten. I dont think Olynk would either FWIW. Your opinions are great, I hope to see more of them, however I dont think you've watched enough of Thomas this season. He will be a good bench player in the NBA, thats about it. If he goes undrafted I will be the first to say I am wrong, however thats pretty far fetched as of today. Also I dont look at Chad Ford's lists. They are usually far fetched at this point. I believe he has guys like GR3 as lottery picks. I dont think thats very accurate at this point.

Yes, clearly, especially your horrible "will he even be drafted" comment. The guy is projected late 1st early second and yet you dont think he'll even be selected. The Adam Morrison example is incredibly spot on though, I mean Gonzaga basically plays in the Big Ten but slight further west. I guess you havent watch much of him this year, but he's developed into a better defender yet still below average. He will be guarding a 3 or a 4 from off the bench. He played the 3, 4 and 5 at OSU through conference play this year. Unless he plays for the Bulls (not likely) he will be fine defending in the NBA. I guess we'll see with all the expert opinions. Sullinger wasnt going to translate and he ended up coming on and starting for the Celtics before he got hurt.

Looking at history, Matta has had now 8 guys go pro early, all have been first rounders. Michael Redd is the last early entry I can remember not being a first rounder.

QUOTE (Boogua @ Apr 5, 2013 -> 02:05 PM) I would say that would be his absolute peak. I honestly don't think he'll ever even have a season where he gets to Tisdale's career averages of 15 and 6, let alone some of his peak years. What position is he going to play? He's too small to play the four and he isn't quick or athletic enough to play the three. He shot 44.5% from the field and 34.5% from 3, so I wouldn't exactly call him a shooter either. He's a scorer, but his size and athleticism are pretty huge red flags. Will he even be drafted? Right now he's projected late first early second Indiana hs 3rd highest all time leading scorer 2nd highest leading scorer for 3 years at osu Top scorer in top conference in college I'd say he'll be perfectly fine. He's scored on everyone that guarded him so clearly your red flags are overstated. He won't be an allstar but he'll post up 3's and stretch 4's from the bench. Very valuable in the NBA.

QUOTE (Boogua @ Apr 5, 2013 -> 01:24 PM) Deshaun Thomas announces that he's going pro. Not sure how his game translates to the NBA game. It should be interesting. Shooter/rebounder/scorer. He has 1 kid and another on the way. Think Wayman Tisdale