whitesoxfan101

Look, this team is no better than what it did the last 3 years (make the 1st or 2nd round of the playoffs, and that's it). Skiles and Paxson took the team from point A (a joke) to point B (respectable), but the problem is they can't get to point C. Now obviously it's Paxson's job to get this team the personnel it needs to get to point C (a legit NBA title contender), because they do not have it right now. However, for this team, which is basically the same as last year and still young outside of Ben Wallace, who was bad last year too, to fall off like this is not acceptable. It's been clear in a lot of games that the team quit on Skiles, and the coach HAS to be fired when that happens, period. I am very surprised it happened this soon, but it was obvious it would happen this season, teams just tune Skiles out pretty fast. Hopefully the new coach will, unlike Skiles, have a clue how to distribute minutes and develop front line players, most noteably giving Tyrus and Noah some real minutes. All I know is Paxson better figure this out quick, because as my rant last page points out, he's doing a lousy job too. This is the 2nd coach he's fired, and if whoever the next permanent coach is doesn't work out, Pax could be next on the chopping block.

I had to watch this one on the TIVO because of Illinois/Mizzou, so I'm late to the party here, but WOW what an incredible game that was, as good a regular season game as I've seen in a while. GREAT win, that's the kind that can turn the Hawks out of the recent tailspin and get them on a hot streak.

Yep, that has to be the most bizarre result this year so far when you consider how awful Kentucky is. Oakland is a game below .500 even. I assume this game was a gift for the 3 Detroit area players on Oregon, but oops.

The curse amazingly lives!! I wonder if Missouri could ever beat Illinois now, they have a decent squad and the Illini just blow. What an ugly game, but Pruitt is a man and Trent kept it close with some big shots. I can't say much more, but at least it's good to know of some certains in life, like: 1. Death 2. Taxes 3. The Cubs and World Series will never go together again 4. Missouri athletics are the joke of the midwest Oh, and the Illini fans who were screaming out, loudly and proudly, the "BCS!! BCS!!!" chants after the game are outstanding. Well done, that had to have left some people pissed off from Misery, almost as much as the painfully true chant than the game itself. AT LEAST one fun streak will survive this sad season.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan99 @ Dec 22, 2007 -> 01:14 AM) Well based on this decision it would appear he is distancing himself from his mom who clearly wanted him at ND. I would hope your right, and think you do. Once Legion is available, the Illini would in theory and IMO have a backcourt of McCamey, Jamar (regardless of how I feel about him, he can play), and Legion. At least that's 3 legit Big 10 guards (I think DMAC will be ok), and with the calvary coming the next season, at least thinks look only really bad now, instead of like death. Baby steps.

Ehh I'm not impressed. Justin McCariens donated a quarter of a million to our new facilities and he doesn't have anywhere near the paper that Romo has. In all seriousness, that's a nice gesture though.

QUOTE(Mplssoxfan @ Dec 22, 2007 -> 08:04 AM) I think you can be reasonably certain that most of those coaches knew that they wouldn't be back. That's life as an assistant. Exactly. The only assistant NIU brought back, for example, is WR coach P.J. Fleck, who is an up and coming offensive mind that is only 27 years old, is getting a promotion, and will probably be a head coach someday (plus he was a star player here from 2000-2003). Everybody else is gone, even Mike Sabock, who has coached the defense and done recruiting for 24 years and survived 4 coaching changes here. With a new coach, nobody is really safe. Oh and on a random note, Florida Atlantic beat Memphis 44-27 in the New Orleans Bowl last night. It's really amazing, I think ANYBODY could build a really good program down in Florida. In 2000 they didn't even have a fooball team, they were 1-AA from 2001-2004, and now in their third year in 1-A, they have won a conference and bowl championship to cap a great season. "The program builder", Howard Schnellenberger, has done a great job there though now in his early 70's agewise.

QUOTE(He_Gawn @ Dec 21, 2007 -> 09:53 PM) Well none of the ND recruits probably saw this type of season coming, but when Illinois kept losing over the years, it looked fishy. I like Zook though and believe he's doing it the right way. Most people thought ND wouldn't make a bowl, but your right nobody thought it would be that bad. I don't think either school is cheating at all, the only schools that really cheat in football recruiting are the SEC ones, which is a major reason why they are so good. Anyways, both schools aren't doing anything illegal here but it just is strange to me how people will accuse with no facts.

Just a thought here. Last year, Illinois was coming off a 2-10 season, and a lot of people said their #20 recruiting class in the nation had to be at least somewhat a byproduct of cheating. This year, Notre Dame goes 3-9, has the consensus #1 recruiting class in the nation, and nobody says a word. I know it's different situations, but still a sign of typical media hypocrisy. Oh, and one of the Kentucky beat writers says Legion to Illinois is official. We'll see if/when this is confirmed by the school, but I'm not surprised, he'll have a chance to play 40 minutes a game in Champaign.

We don't know how Ramirez will translate to the highest level, but he's quite a talent. I really like this move, and have a good feeling it will work out. Nice job for once KW.

Yeah this thread has been friendly compared to the Illini board stuff, as it hasn't gotten personal and turned into death threats and stuff. The illini boards are too crazy even for a nut job like me to visit these days. That's a fair point, but the difference is this: Those programs, with the exception of Maryland (who like Illinois, can't get recruits and thus is in a death spirial that will last for years), are recruiting well and showing/will show signs of coming out of it fast. UConn only missed the dance last year, and this years 7-2 team (who has 2 close losses to top 20 teams) will make the dance, and has a lot of talent, and I'd be shocked if Kentucky doesn't get good again soon with Billy G as coach. Downturn years should be like last year with all the momentum this program has, not like what this year will be, around .500 and in the NIT at best. Wisconsin doesn't have 1/10th the talent to recruit that Illinois does, yet they know their role and have consistent success under Bo Ryan. Yeah they aren't a team that will win a national championship, but I wouldn't mind Illinois being like that, for example. The scary thing about this team is Patrick Beverly, Jeremy Pargo, and E'Twaun Moore could all be on it if Bruce had wanted them, but instead Bruce was too busy whiffing on big targets. So he can't recruit, and he turns down good guys he COULD get.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Dec 21, 2007 -> 05:07 PM) I'm personally happy that we stayed far away from Hamilton. That makes one of us. With our incredible lack of talent as an organization, he would have been worth the risk for this low of a price. Lousy trade by Cincinnati.

Aww congrats and best wishes!! Cute little kid.

I'm not expecting finals fours every year at all, but for Illinois to be this bereft of talent and be in position to miss multiple NCAA tournaments in a row is inexcuseable, and to say this program hasn't had a HUGE falloff under Weber is inaccurate. He's destroyed years and years of momentum, and did it very fast.

QUOTE(Jenksismyb**** @ Dec 21, 2007 -> 10:13 AM) All this crap about Weber getting fired is nonsense. The guy is one of the best coaches in the country. I love the irrational part of Illini Nation, the part that apparently forgot that the program was mediocre for the better part of 50 years with an occasional burst every now and again. Weber has made the program what it is (on the cusp of elite) in the last five years. Yeah yeah, other players recruits, blah blah. He still won a lot of games. People need to relax and step away from the ledge. Every program, even good programs, go through a s***ty stretch of seasons. I think given what Weber has done the last 5 years, I'm willing to let this season and the next play out until he gets his big time recruits in the building. Your ignorance is almost as poorly informed as it is laughable. The Illini program, going back to the late 80's, had been stopped by only the Deon Thomas scandal. Lon Krueger fixed it, Bill Self built it, and Bruce Weber has destroyed it. The two previous coaches to Weber had built/were building something very special in Champaign, and Bruce Weber in only a couple years has destroyed the program and sent it into a spiral of mediocrity that will last at a minimum two years, but more likely three or four, if not until there is a new coach. Not to mention the fact that Bruce couldn't sell water to a thirsty man in the desert, so I'll believe this great class of 2009 when it's signed. The numbers under Weber don't like: 2003-2004: 5 Self recruits starting, Sweet 16 2004-2005: 5 Self recruits starting (all as juniors and seniors), 5 NBA players, National Runner Up 2005-2006: 5 Self recruits starting, but lost Luther, Deron, Powell, and Ingram: blew 11 point 2nd half lead in 2nd round. 2006-2007: 4 Self recruits starting, but lost James and Dee, blew 13 point lead in 8 minutes to lose in 1st round 2007-2008: 1 Self recruit (the only one left) starting, no guard play, 6-4 record, NIT bound (maybe), only help incoming next season is the 100th 3 star big man Weber has signed, and a convicted felon. If that's not a bad coach ruining a great program that he inherited, I don't know what is. And he's done it FAST, I didn't even think the falloff would be this quick, I mean it's an undeserved fluke they were even in the tournament last year, should have been in the NIT with their resume.

QUOTE(thedoctor @ Dec 21, 2007 -> 09:28 AM) while i'm as frustrated as anyone, i'm curious as to why you think guenther is a "fool" for not doing something, and i'm presuming you are referring to him firing weber. i'm aware that you don't like weber, but i'm curious what you think we gain at this point by firing the coach. i think most rational fans were aware that this year and next were potentially going to be difficult. that's on weber for his repeated recruiting misses. at the same time, while there are never any guarantees regarding recruiting, i'm not sure how smart it would be to fire your coach when you have the program's biggest talent influx in years (ever?) waiting in the wings. It was a bad hire from the start, that's the problem. He settled for Weber in 2003 when much better was available, he got away with it for a while because of 2004-2005, and now the problems are coming full circle.

QUOTE(SnB @ Dec 20, 2007 -> 09:19 PM) yikes. anyone got a quick recap of the game tonight? Let me guess. we made 20% of our free throws and chester airballed it 4 times. That's about it. The refs all but had Illinois jerseys on or they lose by 8 in regulation. Bruce is a joke and is ruining this program, the players are useless, and nothing will happen anytime soon because Guenther is a fool. Typical night at the hall. Sad part is I said last week Miami of Ohio would win this game and I was serious and right. How sad.

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/2201154/ Wow..........

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 20, 2007 -> 11:29 AM) I assume you are talking about me? And yes, after his season he dropped to three and then jumped back up to four. And every fan has relative thoughts about their recruits. Every single one that goes to illinois is omg the best signee ever!!!! That's how everyones brain works. I've known he was an illinois lean for awhile, he was even before any of his visits. If you ask the opinion of many of the posters I enact with on our osu boards we thought highly of him, but also felt he was maybe the 3rd or 4th best receiver we were offering. Many guys thought he would be a safety for us. I'm sorry if my comments hurt you, I was trying to give another perspective on the recruit from our pov. He's a great sign for ill, and really the best thing for zook is that he was able to finally get a guy out of glenville to not choose osu. As for shocking us etc? Not really the case. We have 3 ships left I believe and are really focusing on pryor and jenkins for our two main targets. Don't take my comments from my opinion and the opinion of other bucks fans to downplay your recruits whatsoever. We will lose many others plays come feb to other schools, and thus is the joy and pain of recruiting high school kids. Peace and love to the illini, and hatred of meatchicken. Actually no, I wasn't talking about you, all you said was he'll play earlier at Illinois, which is accurate. And I also have no problem with Ohio State at all, Tressel does it the right way (SEE: Him suspending a starter today for the title game). I am just refering to all the people on Buckeye Planet and all that nonsense. Scott this year had a statistically identical year on offense to last year, which is all I'm aware of. And hell, guys like Washington and Robiskie and Aaron Gant were "backup plan", lower rated recruits IIRC, so even when Ohio State has to go to backup plans, it works out. As for Illini recruiting, as long as the current staff is in place, Ohio, Florida, and Maryland/DC will be hotbeds. Hell of a trio of places to have ties.

Ohio State fans are great fans, but their spin on recruiting is always funny. If you ask them, they've never lost a recruit, it's always they won't play or academics or they didn't offer, nobody actually beats them for a player. And yes, Scott is still a 4 star and will remain one, he didn't "lose a star this season". It's a great get.

Oh, and Andres Nocioni is BRUTAL. His contract, although not Ben Wallace bad, is a joke. I know I'll get ripped on in here since the typical white fan loves Nocioni because he yells a lot, but the man is nothing more than an undersized forward who tries hard. He doesn't go to the basket enough, instead falling in love with his 3 point shot, of which he shoots 33.3 percent. He has the worst plus/minus of any player on the team this year (the Bulls especially got killed when he was on the floor last night and tonight), he's a poor defender (despite all the charges he takes flopping), his lack of size and quickness make him an overall liability, and he's had more turnovers than assists his whole career /rant And while your at it, get Ben Gordon's ass out of here. A 6'2 shooting guard with as many turnovers as assists? He also never gets to the free throw line, and his mediocre 42 percent shot for his career is now 38 percent. And that is for a guy whom is an offensive specialist, as everybody knows he's one of the worst guards in the league on defense. Obviously add Ben Wallace to that list too. I'm tired of these damn guys with college experience that try hard and are good soliders, give me TALENT. /rant 2.0 Years of college among NBA top 10 scorers: LeBron: 0 Kobe: 0 Iverson: 2 Boozer: 3 Richard Jefferson: 3 Carmelo: 1 McGrady: 0 Dwight Howard: 0 Caron Butler: 2 Baron Davis: 2 No correlation. None at all, and it'd be the same story in other major categories. In fact, it seems better to NOT have much or any college experience, hell if your good, you wouldn't waste your time playing there. So stop giving me this "we draft character guys with college experience" stuff Pax, it's as big a myth as the one that your a good GM. BRING A STAR TO CHICAGO PAX!! /rant 3.0 Ok, now I feel better. This damn team drives me nuts.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/stor...=Celtics-071219 REALLY good J.A. Adande article on the misconception of the Celtics. People seem to forget that although the Celtics were the "white" team in the 1980's, they did more for blacks in the NBA in the mid to late 20th century than every other NBA team combined. Almost every racial barrier was broken by the Celtics, yet all people do is think of the "white" 80's teams with Bird and McHale and that's a damn shame.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 19, 2007 -> 09:00 PM) A decent part of me would be really happy right now to see a few games to see what a rotation of Tyrus, Gray, Noah, and Smith a little bit off the bench would look like. Big Ben injured his foot last night, so you might get your wish here. Bulls play Friday and Saturday after a day off tomorrow, I wouldn't be surprised if Ben sits out those games. I like Gray backing up Smith though, he seems like a nice guy to bring off the bench.

QUOTE(dasox24 @ Dec 19, 2007 -> 04:20 PM) And Cordale Scott (4* WR from Ohio) is also thought to be leaning towards Illinois and could commit by next week. That'd be a huge steal getting him away from Ohio State. He's been an Illini lean for months, the only reason people will be shocked by this is all the Ohio State people ignorantly assumed Scott was theirs since he goes to Glenville.

Wow, shocking. The Celtics play a real team, at home, and lose to Detroit. Yeah the Celtics are good, but I'm not even convinced they are actually better than Detroit yet, and can beat them in a playoff series. Maybe people will shut up about a Celtic team that has just taken advantage of an easy schedule so far. Oh, and nice win Bulls. 10/10/5 for Aaron Gray? Wow, and Tyrus looks better too.