Balta1701

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 13, 2015 -> 04:30 PM) Small picture. Great. Big picture, his hitting isn't sustainable, but his bad defense is. He is about at bad at SS as he was at 3B last season. Out of qualified 2b, Micah Johnson has the worst overall fielding out of any 2b, worse than Robinson Cano. Given what you just said, you'd apply that same standard and say that Micah needs replaced and is a major issue with this team right?

QUOTE (raBBit @ May 13, 2015 -> 04:31 PM) Rick Hahn is nowhere near as fickle as you are Balta. And yet ... "Ventura told stuff by front office" is the thread we're in, so someone in the front office is fickle enough to speak to the manager 1.25 months into the season.

QUOTE (chw42 @ May 13, 2015 -> 04:02 PM) He won't get suspended period. He's had one flagrant 1 and one flagrant 2. That's 3 points. If you exceed 3 points, it's a suspension. Unless the NBA thinks what he did really warranted a suspension, he's not getting suspended. That's what I meant, the NBA could have decided he did something significantly worse than just a Flagrant-2 and suspended him JR Smith style. As they reviewed the tape enough to say that the Cavs player should have received a technical foul, we can also say that they've reviewed the tape enough to decide they will not issue an additional suspension.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 13, 2015 -> 03:51 PM) He has also committed more errors than Alexei Ramirez and Conor Gillaspie combined. To look at how those are impacting in balance, Alexei has -0.3 fWAR while Semien has 1.2 fWAR.

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ May 13, 2015 -> 03:42 PM) EDIT: Mods please change the thread title to read 2015-16. You have brought shame onto all basketball fans.

QUOTE (Whitewashed in '05 @ May 13, 2015 -> 03:42 PM) Is Taj eligible to play game 6? Presumably if they reviewed it to add the Tech for the other guy then Taj did not get suspended for game 6 in that review and the review is completed.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ May 13, 2015 -> 03:35 PM) or he could be Marcus Semien so far. Holy s***balls he is raking: http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playe...;position=3B/SS I just had to check this to make sure...Marcus Semien has a higher OPS than anyone on the 2015 White Sox with more than 3 PA.

QUOTE (raBBit @ May 13, 2015 -> 03:11 PM) Nice straw man. Why is this even relevant to ponder? Do you really think the whole offseason will be comprised of these moves/nonmoves or do we have to make a prediction based on an incomplete picture? You get called out for your argument and then just change the point of emphasis. Maybe I missed it but who said anything about Anderson being the 2016 SS? The suggestions made for how to save money were: trade Danks (which still doesn't save money if we have to take back an equal bad contract or send money with), let Samardzija walk, which already is likely to happen anyway since I don't see a $140 million payroll next year, or trade Alexei, which leaves Anderson as the likely candidate and actually does make sense. The problem is...it makes little sense to me to have a team with a $115 million payroll and Tim Anderson starting at SS in 2016. He's going to struggle, especially if moved that fast. This is the quandry we've put ourselves in by the bad start this year. The contracts already on the books get more expensive next year. If we're close to the payroll limit this year, and we don't see the kind of revenue growth that we hoped a competitive team would bring...then we're already close to or even over the payroll limit for next year due to the contracts we already have. There's a reason Rick Hahn is bothered enough to start "telling stuff to Robin Ventura", because he's actually overexposed financially for next year and he knows it. They may not want to trade other guys, they may not want to rebuild, but if they remain a sub .500 team, they may not have a choice. So no, that may not be the roster next year, but if "building next years roster" requires "trading Robertson for cheaper guys and going with a weaker bullpen because we don't have funds to spend in FA" or insert whatever other player you want as the hole we need to create...that's a recipe for another losing season. And if that's the case, why are we still holding onto a $115 million payroll?

So to follow that up, if you guys saw Samardzija walking, Alexei being traded, and Anderson taking over as the starting SS next year you'd call that version of the White Sox ready to compete?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 13, 2015 -> 02:57 PM) This is obviously ignoring that this was the case even before the last five years. Fans were leaving even when the White Sox weren't bad. how about we just try actually putting a non-disappointing team on the field and see what happens? it's been a long time.

QUOTE (flavum @ May 13, 2015 -> 02:55 PM) So how do we fix this? I think the solution is obviously to continue winning 45% of our games and complain louder about having a disloyal fanbase.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 13, 2015 -> 02:50 PM) Resources that this franchise doesn't have. QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 13, 2015 -> 02:50 PM) The Sox could have had Cabrera had they accepted Dontrell Willis. So you both now agree that a major part of the problem is with white sox management? ok.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 13, 2015 -> 02:39 PM) So they managed to increase their attendance after a 119 loss season, by 7k a night, with a 72 win team. That is kind of the point. Sox fans are waiting for consecutive playoff teams. Tigers fans showed up for a team that won one less game that we did last year. That is why the Tigers have nicer things than we have, and were able to swing a deal for Miguel Cabrera, and resign him long term, twice. They get resources that our franchise doesn't. Um, the Tigers were also able to swing a deal for Miguel Cabrera because they had done a better job of stockpiling highly-regarded talent through going over slot in the draft and through being really bad several years in a row.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 13, 2015 -> 02:33 PM) So basically this ownership group needs to go into debt on the hope that they can maybe convince fans to show up after years of winning playoff series. Yeah, good luck with that. If you are waiting for a once in a franchise history kind of run to show up, you might as well find another team to complain about... err, root for. The Tigers have been brought up a bunch in this thread. Go back and look at their history. From 1988 to 2010, they made the playoffs exactly once in a 23 season period. In 2010, the Tigers drew just over 30k a night to Comerica. 2010 was the year before their 4 straight playoff appearances, to see a team that won 81 games. That allowed the Tigers to invest in the minor league system and their major league system in a way that the White Sox, couldn't. For comparisons sake the White Sox were coming off of 3 playoff appearances in 10 years, including the 2005 WS, and drew about 27k a night. Going back to the bottom of Tigers history in 2002 and 2003 when they lost a combined 225 games in two years, they still saw almost 24k a night show up to see a 72 win team in 2004, or about 4k a night more than we had last year. So yes, it is done in other places without winning multiple years in a row. It is another excuse. And yet, the Tigers also bottomed out with 17,000 the year before the one you cite.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ May 13, 2015 -> 02:18 PM) Yes. They don't have a choice. What are they supposed to do? They can't do what the Cubs did. This is in the other thread but "our" fan base wouldn't be on board with a rebuild. They aren't on board unless the team wins consistently. They have to ride it out. They have to hope that their offseason moves work out and supplement those moves with guys from the farm system and other deals. I don't see them dialing it back. They would have done that instead of what they did this offseason. We're looking at 3 straight losing seasons and 4/5. We have done nothing better this decade than doing exactly what people say we can't do. You can't make me fear "OMG what will the fan base do if we tear things down and lose every year" when...we're losing every **** year!

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ May 13, 2015 -> 01:52 PM) They aren't going to rebuild with Sale, Q, and Rodon at the front of the rotation, Duke and Robertson at back end of the bullpen, and Abreu in his prime. Not wasting Sale and Abreu's prime is one of a myriad of reasons why they spent heavily this offseason. I just think it's a nonissue. They aren't going to tear it down properly, they never have. I also think they'll be around .500 though and it'll be a moot point. And so we'll slog from one just-under .500 season into another, amazed at how attendance keeps going down from year to year.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 13, 2015 -> 01:56 PM) Keeping Scott Kazmir and Coco Crisp, trading for Tyler Clippard. Signing Billy Butler, aren't moves teams "totally committed" to rebuilding make. So laugh all you want. You are incorrect yet again. No, but letting Lester walk, trading Samardzija for zero established players, and trading away one of the best 3b in the game are very much rebuilding moves. If we traded away Quintana, let Sale walk, and traded away Abreu...I don't think we'd care if we brought in LaRoche to replace him, we'd still call that rebuilding.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 13, 2015 -> 01:49 PM) So substitute having the near worst TV audience then. Hey come on man, even in our 63 win season we didn't have any games with what was it, 1000 viewers like Houston had?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 13, 2015 -> 01:32 PM) They didn't clearly commit to rebuilding. WHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 13, 2015 -> 01:29 PM) Who said he would sell tickets? Frank Thomas was the back to back MVP. The team was in first place back to back years. They couldn't sell as many tickets as 16 other teams. I gave reasons why the fanbase would think that team was going to crap. Trading away a cy young winner is a pretty good one. Your response was "But they brought back Lyle Mouton please edit your post", so clearly you think that somehow bringing back Lyle Mouton in a trade should have sold tickets. Explain how? What am I forgetting about Lyle Mouton that would offset trading away a Cy Young Winner to the Yankees?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 13, 2015 -> 01:24 PM) I figured that one would go over your head. yeah, ok, I'll agree, explain how acquiring Lyle Mouton would sell tickets?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 13, 2015 -> 01:23 PM) Yet you seem to love Marcus Semien who committed error number 11 last night. That's a great comparison for what Timmy will probably be like if he's at SS in the big leagues in 2016. The difference? The A's sold off expensive pieces and clearly committed to a rebuilding season and are hoping that Semien can develop into a more solid defender at SS with time. Are you prepared to commit to 2016 as a rebuilding season?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 13, 2015 -> 01:20 PM) Lyle Mouton was acquired for Jack McDowell. Please edit your post. I do remember watch a Cubs/Sox preseason game at Wrigley before the season started, the Sox had Kruk and Sabo. Harry and Steve were going on and on about how loaded the Sox were. WOW OMG THEY ACQUIRED A 26 YEAR OLD WHO SPENT 1/2 THE SEASON IN CHARLOTTE FOR A CY YOUNG WINNER!!! WHY ON EARTH DIDN'T PEOPLE BUY TICKETS!! QUICK CHECK CHARLOTTE'S ATTENDANCE IN 1995, IT MUST HAVE SKYROCKETED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ May 13, 2015 -> 01:18 PM) I think that Danks, Ramirez, and Shark could possibly go if it gets out of hand. Robertson, Melky, and LaRoche aren't going anywhere though and I'd probably rather have the 1st round pick for Shark than the package. I just think it's way too early to consider even talking about pulling the plug. If anyone would take Danks they'd have moved him by now. Shark...letting him go doesn't fix the payroll mess they created since he's not under contract, and with the way he's pitching right now just settling for the crappy draft pick is starting to seem like better than what we'll be able to get in trade. Ramirez...yes we could possibly move him so I'm hoping he picks it up with the bats more in the next month, and that does help the payroll problem a lot...but then we have the delightful middle infield of Tim Anderson as a rookie who could be in AAA and Micah Johnson as a rushed sophomore next year, which is pretty **** far from a competitive infield.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 13, 2015 -> 01:11 PM) We also heard last year there was no way they could have the payroll they currently are sporting. You have no idea of the White Sox finances. None of us do. They obviously have a plan in place, and that plan doesn't seem to be cutting back payroll after this season. That plan also didn't include being 4 games under .500 and 6.5 back of the division in mid-April, hence the fact that this thread exists in the first place.