Balta1701

QUOTE(PAUL KONERKO 14 @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 06:45 PM) haha one of the best SS's in the league my ass. What about Carlos Guillen, Derek Jeter, Miguel Tejada, Michael Young, Brendan Harris, or Jhonny Peralta? Guillen is being moved to 1st base. Tejada is being talked about as moving to 3rd base.

QUOTE(Chet Lemon @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 05:58 PM) I too do not want, nor think Pods will be back. Regarding Crede, it raises the question: can Crede this offseason fetch a solid leadoff hitter/LF that is decidedly better than Owens in return? By far our best trading chip for an alt. leadoff guy was Garland. Now, we don't have starting pitching to deal any more, which means that we're stuck trying to find a guy who can hit leadoff while playing either CF or LF or 2nd base, because those are the only positions we have that aren't filled by anyone but a rookie. Now that Castillo has resigned, the 2nd base market looks thin on leadoff guys, unless someone wants Eckstein there. Loretta, etc. don't strike my fancy that much. In the OF, a couple of people have mentionned Mike Lamb, who is I believe a FA and might work as an OBP guy. Beyond that, I think Corey Patterson is available but through Boras. And beyond that, at those positions, the FA pickings are slim. So, in terms of trades, if all we have to offer is a guy like Crede, then you have to look at a guy another team is down on. The Phils might move Burrell, but he has a full NTC and has shown no signs of wanting to move. And beyond that, you literally get yourself into "Why did we sign this contract" guy territory and start talking about Pierre. And I for one think we already have an equal version of Juan Pierre in our OF for less money already. So, barring something surprising, I don't really see a better option out there as a leadoff guy.

That's an awful lot of money over an awful long time for him.

QUOTE(BearSox @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 03:51 PM) I think we definitely need a 7 man bullpen now since we will have pretty much 3 question marks in the rotation. How would you feel if the last man out of the pen was Masset, Broadway, or Aardsma in that case?

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 03:42 PM) So just a couple of questions and points quickly; 1 - It's essentially Garland for Cabrera, and the cash it's freed up has probably ensured that we are to sign Hunter if the above report is true? How are people with that overall scenario? 2 - Is Hunter worth 75/5 (or even more)? At 1st glance, definitely not. At least we'll be hurting the Twins I suppose. 3 - What draft picks do we lose for signing Hunter? 4 - Signing Hunter for $15M, lose Garland for $12M, Cabrera for $9M, and we'd probably being paid about $2M. That's an overall gain of $10M. What's our total payroll at, and if we traded Crede and got rid of his $5M salary how would that impact it? 5 - Now with the Hunter signing, do we concentrate on fixing the pen, or do we have to find a SP to fill in for Garland? 1. I could live with those being the changes. I'm more than happy about the SS upgrade, we've taken a hit in the SP but hopefully the young guys can make it so it's not a big hit, and the defensive upgrades should make up for it. 2. He's worth $15 million next season. Down the road, it's hard to say. 3. We would lose our 2nd round pick. 5. Add another RHP to the bullpen, and start trying to move some salaries, and call it a winter

QUOTE(YASNY @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 02:36 PM) I don't think the Dems thought he was of questionable credibilty with the Valarie Plame affair. I don't think anyone would have actually believed him had the CIA not requested the DOJ investigate a couple months after that column came out.

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 03:23 PM) A little help here, please. I haven't been able to check this thread for about 2 hours with the commute home, cooking, etc. Is there anything new since then? I don't feel like reading 10 pages of what is probably a lot of back-and-forth debate on how much this trade sucks or may suck eventually. Other than KW saying he's still trying to land a big fish, no. Probably also worth noting we don't know how much money is coming back, but that's about it.

QUOTE(South Side Fireworks Man @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 03:20 PM) I hope you're correct but...Why would he be meeting with Tom Hicks tonight if he already signed with the Sox? Would you say no to a free dinner?

QUOTE(GreatScott82 @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 02:35 PM) I really hope we get him. Now that Torii wouldn't have to hit number 2 and could be plugged at about 5, 6, or 7 in the order depending on the day, this deal would make much more sense.

QUOTE(Texsox @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 01:58 PM) Cabrera is a plus over Uribe, and that plus will be on the field for 132 more games than Jon. So I'm starting to feel a bit better, but damn it sucks to see Jon go. Shall we start taking bets on who will be the Kevin Butler of the 2005 Sox? Kevin Butler? The Kicker?

QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 01:35 PM) Or Egbert, fwiw. I could see that. Based on who they gave tryouts to last year, I think what's most likely to happen is that we'll just start off with MB, JV, Contreras, Danks, Floyd as the starting 5. And on top of that, they'll start off with Egbert, Gio, Haeger, Broadway, and Sisco in AAA. And for the last 3 in the big leagues, each one of them gets put on a short leash, where if they struggle for a month, they're bullpen material and one of the other guys (Broadway probably first in line) comes up & gets a shot. That's my reading of how the tryouts last year went.

QUOTE(mr_genius @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 01:28 PM) I guess the issue is whether the upgrade at short was significant enough to justify trading away your number 3 starter. I understand that Uribe is going to be dealt, but I don't think he has very much value. Of course, the complaints are based on this trade alone and not taking into consideration future trades. However, the starting pitching staff has a couple holes right now, which is not a good situation. Having a really weak 5th starter is bad, having a gap in the 4th and 5th spot is really unacceptable IMO. The starting rotation and the bullpen have a lot work that needs to be done. Hate to say it, but I think the starting rotation is probably set unless either we gamble on a Garcia/Colon/Clement coming off an injury.. I don't think you do this deal as is unless you think Floyd and Danks are taking those last 2 spots and you're still counting on Jose. Because the next option on the list seems to be Broadway and Gio, and I find it hard to believe we're penciling either of those 2 into the rotation yet.

QUOTE(BearSox @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 01:11 PM) I have a question... why sign Uribe for 5 million, and then trade for a SS? Okay, lots of people were expecting to see Garland traded, but our biggest need right now on offense is a leadoff hitter! This tells me that KW and Ozzie are now planning on having Jerry Owens start in CF and leadoff... I disagree. By far our biggest need was a #2 hitter. Last year, Owens was at least tolerable to my eyes, and if he could somehow put up a .350 OBP with his speed, which really isn't that big of a challenge for him, then we'd be at least ok on that spot. On the other hand, we had Josh Fields hitting #2 for a month pretty much by default because we had no one else, which is horrible because of his strikeouts. This deal solves that hole if it's the only thing it does. We now have as good of a #2 hitter as any team in our division. We still, of course, need 1 more OF, because if Fields is not playing LF next year as has been said, our OF still has Owens, Dye, Blank. So we still have at least 1 more signing to put out there before we can field a team.

QUOTE(PAUL KONERKO 14 @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 12:49 PM) I'm not a huge defense stat-head, can you show me the stats that suggest this? If nothing else, I'll just give you Fielding %age to start off. Last year, Eckstein made 20 errors in 310 attempts. Cabrera made 11 in 415 attempts. .983/.960.

QUOTE(caulfield12 @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 12:10 PM) I don't see where they have any pitchers to trade...beyond either E. Santana and/or Saunders. Neither of those guys, or both together, is not going to get you a Miguel Cabrera caliber player. They would have to trade Kendry Morales, Willits and another fringe prospect in the mold of McPherson/Kotchmann (06-07) along with those two pitchers...and that opens up just as many problems as it solves. Maybe if they gave up Aybar/Morales/Willits (two of those three) along with Santana or Sanders...but neither of those pitchers are enough to get anyone excited, they're not true frontline starters, at least at this stage of their careers. Nick Adenhart would get the attention of any team out there if the Halos put his name out.

QUOTE(beck72 @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 12:05 PM) The salary saved by trading Uribe could come back to bite the sox if 1] Cabrera gets hurt, who's the backup SS?; 2] Richar struggles big time; who goes to 2b? Uribe was stellar at 2b defensively; 3] Fields goes down, who plays 3b? Having Uribe around for backup at 3 spots [without sacrificing defense at any of the 3 spots] makes his $4.5 mill salary worth it, IMO. Far more than just the salary dump alone. I'm one of the bigger Richar backers out here. Yet he still is very unproven. And needs to get some time off, as does Fields. Those factors, as well as having Uribe's power off the bench, flexibility for late inning subbing, too, makes more sense than dumping him, IMO. I'm of the opposite opinion, for one simple reason; with any sort of non-Yankee salary constraints, you do at some level have to gamble on the guys you have doing their jobs. You can't just keep quality players sitting on the bench, esp. if they're chewing up a decent chunk of salary, because the people they bring back, if you're smart about it, could and should help you more, and that salary clearing would help even more. We shouldn't just dump Juan for someone with no chance to ever get to the big leagues, but backup infielders aren't exactly that hard to find. We already have a couple in Pablo and Bourgeois, and if OC were to go down, the difference between Pablo and Uribe is not going to be the difference between missing the playoffs and making them.

QUOTE(caulfield12 @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 11:50 AM) They felt they had to open the spot for Aybar and/or Wood. The thing that's funny is that the Angels STILL haven't addressed their offensive problems (the lack of one more middle of the order power hitter)...not having another big bat like Konerko in that line-up has been enough to cancel that strong starting pitching, lockdown bullpen and multi-faceted offensive attack in the post-season. And...I'd say this move makes it less likely that they'll do that this offseason by going after the last remaining bat; the other Cabrera, because now they really can't afford to move Wood for MCabrera since they've created a hole at SS.

QUOTE(jasonxctf @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 10:59 AM) wouldnt Rowand be a nice #2 too??? Last year's Rowand? Sure. The .325 OBP Rowand we kept seeing in years like 05? Not exactly.

What was it, game 4 against the Angels? On 10 days rest, sinker not working at all, and he comes back and throws a complete game with nothing but his fastball?

QUOTE(Capn12 @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 09:14 AM) I get the feeling Cabrera or Uribe is playing second this year coming... I don't mind the deal so much honestly, Cabrera can give us what we need, a real #2 hitter. Garland was gone either way soon enough, and as long as the money saved from Garland + the money from the Angels is turned into something else for us, I don't mind. It would be incredibly silly to sit Richar for a year for Uribe. Danny actually put up a higher OBP, Slug, and consequently OPS than Uribe did last year, and Danny hit .195 in August (his first full month).

QUOTE(Heads22 @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 09:14 AM) So, say hello to one of Gio/Gavin/Egbert for the rotation next year. Buehrle Vazquez Contreras Danks Floyd/Gonzalez/Egbert It had to happen. Coming off of last year, the downside to gambling on the Kids seems like it is worth the risk. What else can happen, we finish behind the Royals? It's just the return isn't what some of us had hoped.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 09:12 AM) Thank god we signed our 5 million dollar utility guy now, or 2nd baseman. Think there's a power desperate team out there that might be interested in both Crede & Uribe?

So...given the state of our system, I think i'll be the first to ask this...what do folks think it will take to resign OC?

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 09:08 AM) So if I had to guess, Garland will be a type B and Cabrera will be a type A. But then you have to ask yourself; will a team be willing to surrender a 1st round pick for a 34 year old Cabrera? He's not just going to go unsigned, it certainly hasn't yet reached the point where no one would sign him. More likely we'll wind up with a 2nd rounder instead of the late first rounder, but unless he wants to retire, someone will sign him.