LVSoxFan

QUOTE(Hangar18 @ Jun 22, 2006 -> 12:38 PM) man, thats right, I forgot about that. People were deemed "less" a SOX fan for thinking we might not make the playoffs last year. Funny thing was, in the SOX WS Video (put out by MLB), there are numerous references to the slide the SOX had, and how they almost didnt make it, how the SOX players themselves thought UHOH, they reference fans being Worried Sick and even have a fan interviewed. Actually Hangar I never said we weren't going to make it, I just said we'd better do this and this and this and get our s*** together or else... and poof! I was banished to Sox Siberia. The only thing that gave me hope was... no, no, there is NO way we could come all this way only to choke. That would just be TOO cruel. And besides, curses are for Cubs. But I remember during the slide having tix to two games against Anaheim (how's that for irony?) and I couldn't even bring myself to go because I was so traumatized. Oh well, all's well that ends well. This year I'm praying for a Detroit 2nd half swoon and the Sox to go on a Cleveland-like tear 2nd half. We'll see.

QUOTE(Controlled Chaos @ Jun 22, 2006 -> 12:36 PM) The blogs are to show him flip flopping. Not every post is negative, it justy shows how he rides the wave. My point is that he pretty much was writing what most people were thinking along the season. I will give you this, his "predictions" absolutely suck. Maybe if he stopped making them, he'd have more cred. Because that's where he gets himself in the most trouble as proven here. Also, as I mentioned, his famous proclamation after the Bulls outlasted the Pacers that the Bulls were too "old and tired" to ever beat Utah. Oops! Good dicussion though, gents (and ladies)! This was fun. Now back to shelling the Cards...

This I take it is November 2004. Um, after that 2004 washout season, why is this such a radical sentiment? That's what I thought. You got him here. Although, nobody thought this was going to work (I personally did think it would). Remember? As Pods says in the WS DVD, everybody had them picked to finish, what, fourth? Again, we all knew from the five hole in 2004 that we couldn't have another one. And at the time, when Clement was up for sale, we all wanted them to jump on it and they didn't. That's how some of us felt on that one--disapppointed, like they weren't serious because of the money. Vizquel you got him on. You got him here--it was premature to write off "the experiment" without letting it unfold first. You definitely got him here. Again, awfully premature for Mariotti to be making these proclamations. Yup, got him here too. Again: WAY too early to be saying this. In 2004, yes. In April of 2005, no. Yes and no. Ozzie's managing is beyond criticism. His mouth, more than a year later... isn't. So now he's coming around, as everybody started to take notice. I'm not seeing what the big offense is here, except that now he has to eat his words from April. Okay, so....? So now the skeptic is on board. And the criticism is...? Hey, I thought he was a Sox-basher 24/7. What gives? This is a wash. Yeah he was proven wrong but is it that off the wall to think what he just said? Um, he said this in JUNE? What was the context? Obviously this is a crow-eating statement. Again, he was ultimately proven wrong but I find it disingenuous for people here to think that they knew all along that this was gonna turn out like it did--now THAT is stretching. Is this the Sox-bashing that everybody's talking about? Guess what: he wasn't saying this about the Cubs. Why is this quote even here? For what purpose? No baseball expert would dispute this statement at that point in time. We ALL thought this at the time. Just because it turned out wrong means it was bad thinking? Huh? I wouldn't go so far as "disaster" but he's got you on this one. Many of us felt this way at the time (about the big bat addition). Not seeing the foul here. Yes this is awfully doomsday, but again: this is what most people thought at the time. Where's the foul here? Except for the ill-timed remark about Jenks. You got him on that one. Even Ozzie said at this time that they were awful. Nobody could. Oakland, Anaheim? We were dreading facing either. And the issue here is... what? He never said Ozzie was a bad manager. Now you're tripping yourself up. And what's so out there about this quote? I'll give you this, quite a reversal from being berated for not trading for Junior. Now THIS is typical Mariotti jumping-the-gun, cashing it all in way too early. Point goes to you. Why is this quote here? Uh, yeah: he's right on about this. You know, I think all your quotes ending up making my point more than yours. Especially those last few. Mariotti is a Sox-hater? Pfft. Thanks though. I rest my case.

QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Jun 22, 2006 -> 12:04 PM) Did you somehow miss the daily choke articles toward the end of the year? How could you possibly read his stuff regularly and not catch it. Through the course of the year he went from Sox doubter to Sox supporter to Sox doubter to Sox supporter again. Go back and look at the blog link that was posted earlier, he changed his stance on virtually everything related to the Sox on a regular basis. Kenny went from a genius for going to the small ball approach to a moron that didn't add a big bat; the Sox went from a team that was never going to win a series with Reisdorf as the owner to a serious title threat to a massive choke-job. Ozzie went from being a genius to a guy that doesn't know what he's doing. The list goes on and on. He never stands by any statement or opinion that he puts forth. You're oversimplifying but let's be honest here: we ALL thought they were gonna choke in September, and that was hardly Mariotti alone that was talking that up in the press. And let's face it, up until 2005 there was no reason to think that the Sox would ever win with Reinsdorf as an owner. Not me, that's for sure. Yes through the years he's of course flip/flopped on the story, just like... fans do. Maybe that's what I like: he writes like a fan. Up and down, love 'em, hate 'em--more about emotion than about Sportscenter analysis. I'll be the first to admit, for instance, that I had my eyes closed until the end of September because I was thinking the unthinkable. I just didn't have the venue to write about it. Actually, I did: and I got banned.

QUOTE(YASNY @ Jun 22, 2006 -> 12:02 PM) What answer? You said I 'inferred' something about you. Show me where! I simply disagreed with you. Mea culpa. I probably generalized and made it sound like you. Meaning: some were starting to call into questin my Sox love, yada yada. You didn't. I apologize if I made it sound that way. It's all good. Hey, I got my piece out there; people don't agree. It was nagging at me this morning and I had to get it off my chest. What more can ya do?

Okay am I the only one floored by how we're shellacking the best (arguably) team in the NL? For all the hype leading up to this, it's like we're playing a AAA club. I would have NEVER guessed this to be the case. Any explanation for this? It's just, well... surreal...

QUOTE(YASNY @ Jun 22, 2006 -> 11:53 AM) Inferences about you? What, you can't handle someone telling you to 'get real'? That's about the only thing I can see that inferred anything. And no, it's not crap. It's exactly what happened. I can handle a lot more than that, thanks. "Get real"? I pointed out where Mariotti had some points and your blanket dismissal was simply that he was a piece of crap. Ooookay, so that's your answer. Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn once in a while. You refuse to acknowledge that and I'm the one who needs to "get real"? QUOTE(CanOfCorn @ Jun 22, 2006 -> 11:56 AM) the sox knew what they were getting when they hired him. By the way, I heard an interesting take on this from Colin Cowherd this morning. He basically said that, yes, Ozzie was wrong for calling Mariotti a f**. But, if you are going to write columns without being there everyday, or even being there everyday, that's what happens in a big league clubhouse. Does that make it right? No. Does it mean nobody should ever be offended? No. But it happens, and if you are going to write something about someone, how can you not expect some retaliation in some form. Also, this wasn't a John Rocker or Jimmy the Greek or Marge Schott or Al Campanis situation, because this was a man-to-man argument. Those other people made gross generalizations about blacks or gays and Ozzie was just pissed off at one guy. Not Bud Selig, not baseball, not fans, but one "columnist." Should he be fined? Yes, because he said something stupid and he should know when to hold his tongue. But that won't stop him. He is who he is and he will never be anything different and I respect him immensely for that. He's always said he would take the shots, but he will also stand up for himself. For Mariotti to be surprised by this turn of events is absolutely ridiculous. That's like Ozzie being surprised that Mariotti came up with a pithy nickname like "The Blizzard of Oz." This should be handled in-house and not in the papers. If you want to read him, read him. But, for the love of god, please don't defend him...he can (but won't) do it himself. Okay maybe this is where I get confused because I never took "Blizzard of Oz" to be a put-down. The comment, yes, was uncalled for (and I mean the language not because it's Mariotti) but no it's hardly along the lines of Marge Schott--agreed. As for Jimmy the Greek I think that was total overkill, but that's another (non-relevant) thread.

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Jun 22, 2006 -> 11:52 AM) It has nothing to do with how he comes off on TV. The other reporters know his writing. They know he prods everyone constantly, flip flops on issues, and is just generally a dickhead. All right, I'll take your word for it. But again: where has he flip-flopped on the Sox over the past two seasons? The only words I think he had to eat was when he was badgering KW for not making a post-ASB trade last year for a big bat when we were swooning. Otherwise, I'm at a loss here. HOWEVER, I will give you this: if I'm not mistaken, in the winter of 2004/2005 when we made the radical change to "small ball" team, I think he was openly doubting that if I'm not mistaken. So I'm aware of the flip/flops (like with the Bulls/Utah as I noted).

QUOTE(Steff @ Jun 22, 2006 -> 11:48 AM) You've been around here long enough to know how this s*** goes down. You posted your opinion and that's that. Ya just gotta suck it up and move on, and don't take any s*** to heart from a drive-by poster. Oh I'm fine Steff and I'm glad everybody jumped on this. Hey: at least we got a nice three page distraction going before tonight's game, during the down-time. QUOTE(Controlled Chaos @ Jun 22, 2006 -> 11:49 AM) Dude, I read him every day too. To call him a Sox fan is totally abusurd. Yeah he has written a few positive articles...nobody here ever said he slams the sox 100% of the time. They're the World Champions if he didn't have a positive article once in a while he would lose what little credibility he has. Even when he does write a positive article he almost always has to get in some kind of a dig. Whether it be a past quote of Ozzie or a past experience at the park or something Reinsdorf did or somethign Kenny did. Fan? I don't know if I said he was wearing jerseys to games but I know of no other columnist that's written more positive stuff about the Sox--particularly 1st half last year when everybody was ho-humming them as pretenders--than him. It certainly wasn't the Trib, that's for sure. Look, I'm not being a character witness for Jay Mariotti. What I'm calling into question, and I stand by this, is the idea that he is continually anti-Sox. And the suggestion by some that he is anti-Sox and pro-Cubs is just flat-out laughable, and easily disproven. That's all.

QUOTE(YASNY @ Jun 22, 2006 -> 11:44 AM) You're not the only one that reads this slimeball regularly. If he's talking about baseball, I read it. I happen to have a complete and totally 100% different opinion than you about this tool. You expressed yours, then get upset when I express mine. I never said Ozzie was guilt free. I just know that Mariotti is nothing more than a low class s*** stirrer. Oh that's crap and you know it. I have no problem with you expressing your opinion about Mariotti--IN THE END, HE'S JUST A WRITER, DIG?--the only problem I have is the inferences you make about me because I played, admittedly, devil's advocate here. I agree that he's a s***-stirrer, but in this town with these freakin' owners (save for Jerry who has redeemed himself twice-over), I kinda like that. Maybe we need more s***-stirrers in this town. And regardless of what everybody says, he has been behind the Sox for two years now. I don't know what more everybody wants. Doesn't mean that everybody should start liking Mariotti, just means let's get our facts straight. That's all.

QUOTE(Mike @ Jun 22, 2006 -> 11:43 AM) What do you expect LV, you know before hand the reaction you would get when you post it. Yeah, but I thought people would be a little more rational and objective. Not surprisingly, I've already been straw-manned a couple of times and of course now I'm not a "real" Sox fan, because I don't hate some freakin sports columnists as much as I'm "supposed" to.

QUOTE(Chip Z @ Jun 22, 2006 -> 11:42 AM) Wow I just met the biggest sox fan! As far as Mariotti goes, he is not a good writer, he steals and plagurizes most of his columns from other sources. He could be the biggest white sox homer in the world and it wouldn't change the fact he is a talentless hack. BTW can I get your autograph or something I am still in awe that the biggest sox fan has quoted me Nice straw man, Chip. I didn't say "I AM THE BIGGEST SOX FAN" and you know it. If you need to keep this going by being disingenuous like that, then why should we waste each other's time?

QUOTE(Hangar18 @ Jun 22, 2006 -> 11:34 AM) LV, your saying that today Mariotti has a point and he does. Im with you on that. He has mostly been negative towards the SOX and saved all of his Rah-Rah articles for that other team. Of course, the SOX noticed this and privately told him they didnt appreciate it. Now mind you, some of the Negative articles about the SOX were Excellent and Timely, but then writing a piece saying AJ deserved getting punched? Ridiculous. I want a columnist to just tell the truth, and his many Ligue references have hurt the fanbase perception. Good points, Hangar! I dispute that he's been mostly negative--geez have you guys read him the past two years? Apparently not. And he has SAVAGED the Cubs while talking the Sox up non-stop. But you raise a good point about the AJ column--now THAT was bulls***. And that's my point: yes, he's full of s*** sometimes. Especially on that one. But just not all of the time, as he is portrayed here. It's not that I want to defend the guy up and down, it's just that I have a distaste for irrational extremism.

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Jun 22, 2006 -> 11:35 AM) He bashes everyone equally. We don't hate him just for being against the Sox. He switches sides on a topic at the drop of a hat, and he does it all to get people to read him. I read him for a long time before I stopped. He plays both sides. Hell, if you watched Around the Horn yesterday, you would've seen that even the other reporters think very little of him. They know his game. Well hell: at least you acknowledge one of my points about bashing equally. But is everybody going to keep pretending that he hasn't been a vocal Sox fan the past two years? I concede though that I never watch him on TV and for all I know he comes off like a total a-hole. I only know him from print.

QUOTE(YASNY @ Jun 22, 2006 -> 11:34 AM) Immune to critcism? Have you read some of the s*** thrown around here at various Sox personalities? C'mon. Get real. Mariotti's a tool of the lowest order. Ya know? I give up. I try and present an objective look at this and the pile-on begins because how dare I not jump on the bandwagon where Mariotti is the anti-Christ when it comes to the Sox. You're right: Ozzie was totally right to say what he said, Ozzie never does anything inappropriate or unbecoming for a World Series champ, Mariotti is simply lying 100% of the time and I am a traitor and an impostor for even suggesting otherwise. And of course I know nothing about what I'm saying, seeing that I read the column every day. God knows what you people think of Bill Simmons. Anyway, you guys win. I'm a traitor, a sheep and a lunatic and not only probably Mariotti himself trolling, but probably a Cubs fan, too. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if I have WMDs to top it all off. Carry on. Forget I even posted.

QUOTE(Controlled Chaos @ Jun 22, 2006 -> 11:31 AM) Don't misquote Ozzie he said "f***in f.a.g" Mariotti is an asshole and he knows it and gets paid well for it. You defending him is ridiculous, as he probably wouldn't even defend himself in an honest moment with friends. He knows he goes to the extreme to sell papers. He gets people talking at all costs. He's right along the lines of Skip Bayless. Boy, you really didn't read what I wrote, did you? How's that knee? Don't sprain it from jerkin' so fast...

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Jun 22, 2006 -> 11:29 AM) If you honestly believe all of that, LV, you're a sheep. Pfft. Sheep. Right. No, I'm the guy who actually reads him. And again I say: prove that Mariotti is so anti-Sox. If he's full of s***, he's full of s*** and I'll say it when he is (and he is sometimes). But excuse me if I don't get in line to drink to Kool-Aid here. If he were that much of a Sox-bashing jagoff, I would have stopped reading him long ago. QUOTE(Chip Z @ Jun 22, 2006 -> 11:31 AM) Mariotti's hasn't come up with an original thought since he arrived in Chicago. He just surfs the net net for forum boards like this, finds a quote that sounds like it will fire people up, and writes a column about it. The reason you agree with Mariotti, is because you probably wrote the exact same thing and he plagurized your work. Really, Chip? I'm one of the biggest, loyal Sox fans in the world so obviously you don't know what you're talking about. Try coming up with something better than a lame straw man.

QUOTE(KevHead0881 @ Jun 22, 2006 -> 11:26 AM) Mariotti is especially fair when he references the William Ligues of the world as being an accurate representation of all Sox fans (which he has done on numerous occasions). I will say that the Sox have to do a better job of ignoring a dufus like Mariotti. But to say that he has been fair to the Sox over the years is beyond comprehension. Okay, I'll give you that--he was over-the-top in that if he's characterizing all Sox fans as that type. But that incident was a black-eye on our park and our team. Especially since there were two. I'm starting to wonder though: are we immune to criticism? Is that what we think here?

Well I knew that I'd get blowback for not crucifying Mariotti--and would you guys remember I did NOT say that he is never wrong--but it certainly is a mystery to me. That mystery is that, like I said, I read the guy every column (mostly) out of habit and I'm at a loss where everybody's claiming he's been so unfair to the Sox the past couple of years. Hell, there's been more than a few that I've read where he was right-on about us and especially in talking about how we're the "real" baseball team in Chicago. He called KW a genius GM for his offseason deals. Yada, yada. I guess I really don't know what you guys want out of a columnist. Where has he ever been so unfair to the Sox?

I realize I'm risking the wrath of the entire board and Soxdom in general by not jumping on the Mariotti/Mornotti/whatever bashing-bandwagon, but there's a few things to be pointed out here, IMO. What Ozzie said this week was unbecoming of a manager of a World Series Champion ballclub. To use that kind of guttural language in front of the press, knowing it would be reported, was stupid. Don't get me wrong I LOVE OZZIE TO DEATH but sometimes he can be an idiot, and he's being one now. For all the Mariotti bashing (I read him every day), what's overlooked is that this man has been MORE than fair to the Sox over the past few seasons. The idea that he rips them and champions the Cubs is absurd. While he may call out Ozzie for something like the Tracey episode (or calling that guy in NY a "child molester") or even K.W. last August--wrongly, as it turned out--for not making a trade for a big bat, the man has been talking the Sox up all during 2005 and this year too. He was the guy last year who was telling Chicago to forget the has-been/never-were Cubs and check out the real baseball on the South Side. He was the guy calling KW a genius over the winter for his trades. He was the guy talking up the new Sox as genuinely exciting this year, because everybody knows that we have a chance to repeat. I don't know how much more of a cheerleader this guy's supposed to be, and be objective. What I personally like about Mariotti is that he is unafraid to challenge the sacred cows here in Chicago and rip into teams/ownership that deserve it. This year it's been the Cubs (and rightly so, yes?), but in the past it's been the Bears (any arguments there?), the Bulls (save for the last couple seasons) and probably the Hawks at some point. He was also blistering in his criticisms of the Sox prior to '05 and you know what? He should have been. Yes, he gets things wrong sometimes (famously predicting the Bulls would never win that last championship against Utah, I remember). Yes, his feud with Hawk is idiotic (on both ends). Yes he can be arrogant and a blowhard. But for my money I'd rather see a guy stirring the pot rather than lapsing into the passivity that apparently allows us to continue to suffer owners like the McCaskeys and Wirtz. I WANT a guy who's going to slice and dice the teams when they suck. So apparently this year Mariotti is on Ozzie's hit list because he's criticized Ozzie's behavior here and there. And you know what? That is positively CUBS-LIKE. Oh, you remember, don't you? In 2004 (after the historic 2003 choke) all of a sudden Steve Stone couldn't dare criticize Baker or the team--and when he did, he was either tackled in the press by the team/Baker (ahem) or personally threatened/confronted by players. And that proved to be nothing more than yet another distraction that made sure, among all the other things, that they failed in 2004 as well. As for the Hawk thing, I'm not sure that Mariotti was ever wrong about him. He IS a homer. He IS a mouthpiece for Reinsdorf. That doesn't mean I don't enjoy Hawk, but what's in dispute here? Granted, Mariotti's comments have gotten more personal than that, but on the other end, Hawk spent an entire game the other night reading viewer email about what an asshole Mariotti is. THIS is the kind of thing we need to spend time on as we attempt to repeat as World Champions? Pfft. I doubt it. And as much as I love Ozzie, we don't need to hear him gleefully referring to unliked columnists as "f******* ***gots." At least not publically. Remember his Magglio tirade? That was embarassing. Magglio probably wasn't all innocent in his ultimate departure, but he didn't deserve that. At least not with that kind of language. I'd like to see Mariotti and Ozzie meet and bury the hatchet. Mariotti should be able to write what he wants without worrying about threats from Ozzie. And if Ozzie doesn't like it, he should be able to pick up the phone and call Mariotti and tell him why he thinks he's full of s***. But this nonsense is just getting old. I know Sox fans hate Mariotti, but the man is certainly not the anti-Christ he's made out to be. We need to worry about more important things. Sorry for being a heretic, but that's just how I see it. BTW, though, his suggestion for a two-week suspension for Ozzie is absurd. Now THAT is bulls***.

OMG Ichiro on the Sox? To good to be true.

I would not count on them declining any time soon, if at all. These guys have been perpetual also-rans in the Central (sound familiar?) and now that they're having a breakout year, they're not about to give it up. I doubt they feel any "pressure" yet. Sure they probably wanted to pull away but this is the Central--the Sox aren't going away and neither are the Indians. Yeah, they're pretty far back but I certainly would NOT count them out. Look what they did last year. Things can change in a blink. Look at Oakland; they were sucking when we played them and now they're on a 10-game winning streak!

I too have noticed that their chemistry has improved greatly and I enjoy them together. DJ has some great, great one-liners. Yes, he's obviously smarter than Hawk--Hawk's a good ole' boy who has some good old-time stories. But they are both great together and I too also noticed that DJ's play-by-play is getting pretty damn good. Wouldn't want to listen to anybody else right now.

I am all for Anderson; I have no qualms. His batting will come around. His "D" is game-saving. Enough for me. Keep the kid in there, I say.

I love Pods, but what is that guy doing this year? What happened to stealing bases? When was the last time he even tried? That was the WHOLE point of having him here. His batting is so-so and his fielding is barely the same. At least you know with Pablo that he's going 110% the whole time; Pods appears to be phoning it in. I know this is sacreligious, but seriously, it's about time somebody said it. Pods has been unremarkable in 2006.