LVSoxFan

Sorry, while Renteria is better than RV (and that's setting the bar pretty low), all we've done is hire the next captain of the Titanic. As long as KW is running the show, enjoy your 2016 White Sox... in 2017. 'Cause that's what we're going to get.

You can arrange the deck chairs all you want but nothing changes as long as KW is president, and unfortunately, probably while JR is owner. He can talk about winning NOW all he wants, but the people tasked with assembling that winner have been to the playoffs exactly once in the last 11 years, where they were dispatched easily in the first round. The people whom their #1 player clearly doesn't respect, and who've made bad decision after bad decision, this year's winner being Shields. Boy that was worth it. Sadly, I think like the Bears with the McCaskeys, you can expect indefinite mediocrity as long as JR himself owns the team.

I don't see JR selling the Sox while he's still alive--he's obviously making money, hence the decade of fail. Just like the Bears, when nothing changes and you wonder why the operation defies all common sense, it's because somebody's making money off the status quo. I read somewhere this summer that JR gets a big tax break if the Sox don't hit a certain attendance number, so that explains why there's no urgency with regard to our pathetic attendance numbers. The Bears sell out regardless so it's no wonder the McCaskeys have offered up fail after fail for years--they have no financial incentive to win and obviously it's not important to them. Clearly the Ricketts weren't fooling around, as they spent the cash and made the moves to turn around the Cubs and turn around they did. Rocky Wirtz also did the same thing. And now you have the two most promising franchises in the city, one with three Stanley Cups and the other set up to be contenders for years. Here we have nothing but failed experiment after failed experiment to go with all the horrible trades/acquisitions that were supposed to be game-changers, skippered by a previously no-experience manager and a president who, as the years stretch into more than a decade, seems more and more like he just got lucky in 2005. What worries me is that the more we suck and the more attendance continues to fall, the only way somebody could be enticed into buying this team is if they got to take them somewhere else.

QUOTE (Sleepy Harold @ Aug 3, 2016 -> 09:06 PM) Bravo! This hits the nail on the head. I couldn't express my feelings towards the current situation the White Sox are in any better than this. Yup, that summed it all up perfectly.

I knew something was up when Sale lit in to KW on-air after the LaRoche fiasco. I've never seen a player go after a team president like that while still playing for him. That's when I knew something was quite wrong. A great April of course makes everything disappear--until it stopped being great. Sale even took a shot at Ventura recently (after the jersey thing)--what that shows me is that the elite players (all two or three of them) know that they're surrounded by incompetence and it's harder and harder to tolerate it anymore. I feel for Sale--he's spending his glory years on a team that has absolutely no chance to do anything. I'd be mad too. As for nothing happening at the trade deadline, not a shock. A blowup would mean management admitting failure--something they have never done. There was no big splash to be made to make us instant contenders, so they basically just sat there and made some meaningless trade. Pathetic. If this team goes away because of this mismanagement, I will always blame JR--I don't care if we won in 2005.

The way Sale reacted to the LaRoche thing back in April showed the fuse had been lit between Sale and management. I think some are missing that the uniform incident could have been anything, it just happened to be THE thing; i.e., a symptom not the cause. It was clear back then that he hated KW at least.

I've said it before, I'll say it again: nothing improves as long as KW is president. I firmly believe KW gambled--and won--in 2005 (and we thank him for that) but then became convinced he's on a par with Theo Epstein. 11 years and one losing playoff appearance later, here we are. More like Juan Epstein. But yes, KW is there because of JR so things may never change as long as JR is owner. Someone here once said that JR's M.O. is that he won't pay big bucks for management or unproven talent. While the latter might make sense, how's the former workin' out for ya, Jer? I mean FFS after Ozzie the big splash was "Hey, Robin: here, put on this hat, you're a manager now!" I'm sure Robin didn't cost much. We need to do what--gasp--the Cubs did and the Blackhawks did. Start from the top down. That said, might as well load up on prospects now with a fire sale--until you think: do we trust these guys to even do that right?

Is anybody really that surprised? After that free-fall in June it was pretty clear we have some fundamental, critical problems with this team and after a sleight rebound--just when you think maybe they'll really, really turn it around--they reverted to form. Losing form. It's a 100% lose/lose situation because while I'm 100% behind the whole BIAU (blow it all up) idea, with current management I don't trust them and they'd probably just end up selling off the few good players we have for a crappy return. I see no end in sight as long as JR continues to own the team and continues to employ KW. Hahn I don't know enough about or if he even has any autonomy. The fish rots from the head down, as the saying goes, so as tempting as it is to do a BIAU, I would almost hold off on that until we have management in place who has demonstrated some competence. I feel bad for Sales though. How much it must suck to be such an elite player yet stuck on a go-nowhere team.

On a related note, could those All-Star jerseys BE ANY UGLIER? Christ on a cracker, those are awful. I can't remember the last time we had a decent All-Star jersey. Oh wait: I have one. 2004.

Yikes and here we go--a three-game winning streak that will now put a halt to any urgency for change. Soon the announcement will come that we're "all in" for 2016. Sigh.

I really, really don't think RV is getting fired. That would mean doing something KW is loathe to do: admit failure. If I had to guess, KW's spin would be something like: while this last month has been bad news, the first month was amazing so, taken as a whole, there's no need to panic. Then some variation of "stay the course, they've got to work it out, keep grinding," etc., etc. Which goes back to my theory: after 2005 KW decided he was a genius and a master team-builder. I can't see him eating crow and firing RV. I could see him throwing Hahn under the bus, though.

While that's correct, if it were just a matter of good players living up to their ability, we wouldn't need managers/coaches. I think you realize how important management is when you hit a bump like we did in Texas, from which we never recovered--apparently. I'm totally on board with the need for players to produce but our management issues are so deep-rooted and in such decomposition at this point that I can't even begin to address the players on the field. Somebody mentioned the last time we made the playoffs being 2008. While technically correct, we basically stumbled into that appearance (after the admittedly awesome Blackout Game) and then got smoked first round, predictably.

QUOTE (Coach @ Jun 20, 2016 -> 06:01 AM) My son and I are going to the Sox game this Saturday. There is no way I am paying $40.00 per ticket. I can go on stubhub and get $7.00 and move to where we want. That's how bad the Sox are. No one comes. Why should they? We've declared that for the rest of the season we're going to find the best seats possible and sit different places every time... for the cheapest price possible. I'm not going to pay any significant price to watch this anymore, but I do still enjoy the live game experience, even if we suck. This weekend, we're enjoying first row UD down the 3B line for $10 each. Can't wait to see what $10-or-less seats we'll have for the next one. That's about all it's worth now--and even that might be high.

I appreciate the thought put into how we sell off/trade the players to get something better on the field but with respect, nothing changes as long as this is our management, from KW down. They created this debacle, year after year. Sadly I think nothing changes as long as JR is the owner because he either doesn't care or is delusional. I don't know what could effect a top-down change. Season ticket-holder revolt? Because clearly awful attendance has not motivated JR. Thoughts?

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 18, 2016 -> 06:14 PM) Except for Sale, Q and Anderson, yeah, pretty much. Eaton gets a pass, too. Probably Tyler Saladino. Yup.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Jun 16, 2016 -> 02:49 PM) You bring up some very good points. The Sox the past decade always seem to be between "the rock and a hard place..." with no clear answers, no easy solutions. They aren't willing to "blow it up" and start over yet they aren't willing to commit the monstrous money needed to get the top of the line free agents when they become available (which granted isn't often). They go "dumpster diving" a lot (with the usual results) and still don't have a quality minor league feeder system that can be used for reinforcements or to trade for established quality vets who aren't on the downside of 30. Wish I had the answer but that's why the front office folks get paid what they do...to solve the problem. Mark Bingo. I've been saying this for years. You're exactly right: they don't have Yankees/Red Sox-like money to buy their way into the playoffs with big free agent signings, nor do they have a reliable minor league system to bring up home-grown talent. So instead we get this Frankenstein-d approach where a bunch of guys you've never heard of are sprinkled in with very few A- or B-listers (Sale, Quintana, I'll even say Eaton but I'm biased and at FIRST you'd say Abreu) and... welcome to the last decade. My totally non-scientific theory is that KW became convinced after 2005--and let's face it, that was an anomaly--that his "approach" (dumpster diving as you say, on the cheap, mixed with a few big signings) was genius and so was he. Problem is, it's never worked since. Not even close. And Lord help us if we have to experience another mid-season signing of a past-his-prime free agent who will allegedly show we're "Going all-in this season." Even worse than that, last year we were sputtering but then when on enough of a win streak heading into the ASB that KW decided to leave all the pieces in place (Wannestadt reference!) including holding on to Shark--another big-money bust. So here we are, for a decade, in that no-man's land between Major Market Team (with the spending that entails) and Small Market Team (without the talent that entails). I mean FFS the Royals are World Series champions and it was their SECOND trip in two years to the big dance. The Royals. For most of the last decade (and beyond) the perpetual bottom-dwellers of the central. Now it's us.

I'm not being level-headed huh?

How many times have we heard this, or a variation of it, regardless of the position: well, they won't be this bad all year! They'll snap out of it eventually. They can't suck forever. They'll eventually find their form. Etc., etc., etc.... Been hearing this for years. Yeah.

You know I would love to believe again after that awesome comeback last night but watch: we'll score one run tonight and lose again. That's usually how it's been going. For years.

I agree that the Sox have the best uniform/hat in baseball but I don't think that's going to be enough to entice a new generation of fans--they suck, but they have cool stuff!

The saddest part to me is you're going to lose a whole generation of young would-be fans to the Cubs, because they've been on an upward trend for years--and now it's peaking--while we've gone the complete opposite direction. Forget those of us who have been around--how long do you think youngsters are going to get behind the Sox because their parents did when all their classmates are enjoying a first-class, winning team (in a great park) that's probably going to the World Series this year and probably more than one in the near future? Again: the last decades speaks for itself. The system doesn't work. There's no learning curve. Even having an ace like Sale doesn't help, or potential ace Quintana who's been getting completely shafted by having no run support. Our big signings are busts, our farm league is in shambles--just what exactly is competently run at this organization? Then there's the other weird thing with seemingly good players like Eaton or even Frazier apparently regressing while White Sox. The whole thing screams: Blow. It. Up. Unfortunately, I think we're in a McCaskey situation here with JR as owner. The difference being the Bears sell out regardless. We don't. Not even close. Hell, even the hardcore fans are bailing.

Well I was at the game yesterday and had a clear view into the broadcast booth and something I saw there was very telling. If you've ever seen it, when it's Hawk and Stone... they are literally sitting at opposite ends of the booth. They literally could not be farther apart physically. I found that so odd the first time I saw it, because I thought broadcast teams sit somewhat close to each other. When I looked in the booth yesterday with Jason/Stone, I was shocked to see them pretty much sitting right next to each other. They were even talking and laughing between innings. I think that says a lot.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 9, 2016 -> 11:56 AM) While it might be a pretty place, it would be an awful place for a ballpark. No public transportation. LSD would be a headache. It's fine for the Bears 8 days a year, but 81? People aren't going to want much of it. I always though the park should have been around Roosevelt and the River. You have Red line, Green line and Orange line stops a couple of blocks away. You have the downtown work people extremely close. Could have built a riverwalk type thing, and opened it up to the skyline a bit. But the park now is fine. Well ok point taken. My point was more I can't fathom why they didn't go for a more centrally located site to capture all the tourists that pile through this city every summer. Your idea sounds fine too. As far as the public transportation goes I guess they could always build that up to go along with it but as somebody pointed out, the lakefront can be a COLD place when it's not summer (I know, I live there). So your Roosevelt idea is not bad at all. But in the end, I love the Cell so I have no complaints. Hated it before the renovation, but JR actually did that right, and actually love it now (surprisingly so) even more with the big video screens, which I thought I'd hate. Plus that ugly McDonald's logo in CF is finally gone. Wrigley is iconic but I've always told people "You have to see The Cell for a totally different, but still totally cool, experience." Anyway, back to the topic. I'm going to assume the worst with KC, last night's victory notwithstanding. If we lost the series or get swept, does anybody think that will be the tipping point? J/K. They're not going to do anything. I think we're stuck with management until season's end--I really do.

Yeah Gonzalez has been earning his spot, hasn't he? One bright spot...

QUOTE (aryzner @ Jun 9, 2016 -> 03:24 PM) Jerry needs to sell this f***ing team so someone else can come in and gut the entire organization. End short rant. Had this conversation with somebody else yesterday--when sports franchises are this abysmal for this long, it points to one thing ultimately: the owners. Sadly, I think nothing changes as long as JR owns the team and keeps employing people like KW.