LVSoxFan

I hope Danks has a great year. It doesn't help us to see him struggle and the more backup Sale has, the better for us. Let's hope they're right.

If they were to trade Sale for no reason but this, I think you'd see a season ticketholders revolt, and that's about the only thing that scares JR. KW is the one who should be shipped out--and should have been years ago. Not Sale. As long as KW is in charge we're going to suck, Sale or not.

I think the Sale/Eaton response had less to do with LaRoche and was more telling of how the players view Kenny. Notice how he was pointedly left OUT of the list of whom Sale respects? I hardly think this was all because of the LaRoche incident. If we can separate that, now that I look at it after some time let's be honest: the LaRoche deal was just weird. Weird if they agreed to it, weird for doing it. It's one thing to have the kid attend a few games, hang out in the clubhouse before/after and take some drills at Spring Training--SOME. But EVERY DAY? It's like he was ON the team and if I were a teammate, no matter how nice the kid was, that would get on my nerves. Did I say yet that it was weird? Why is the kid not in school? Where's he making friends if he's spending all season hanging with grown men? What if he's not going to be a baseball player, then what experience is he getting? He's not eight, he's fourteen. Plus, yeah: LaRoche took a stand--a stand that meant because the didn't like what Kenny did (and no love lost for KW here), he walked out on his team, where you'd think he'd want to try even harder this year to make up for his Adam Dunn-like last year. Especially at $13M/year, which you bet maybe only one or two other of them are making. So it's a wash because I think the kid thing should have never been allowed and it's an odd way to push a kid into an environment where they don't belong. On the other hand, while KW may be right on this, I don't like KW so I understand why Sale blasted him. All I can think of is say that you're Ladd and you've come to the Blackhawks but somehow you're bringing your kid into the locker room for EVERY game and even having the kid participate in drills during the skate-arounds? You don't think somebody would complain about that, and fast? The first being Coach Q?

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Mar 19, 2016 -> 08:49 PM) This is an excellent take by Barry Rozner: http://www.dailyherald.com/article/2016031..._medium=twitter I think this nails it. Perfectly.

Like, "Carlos Danger"-ous? Who's even buying this latest "all the pieces are in place" crap? They say this every year.

FWIW many people have asked me if I'm rooting against the Cubs, being a Sox fan and my answer is the same "A) No--why would I? B) Rooting against them won't make us better." Emphasis on the latter. What is depressing is even if they only get this far, for one season under Maddon and four starting rookies--that's pretty effin' amazing. They have a lot of years to look forward to. Then there's us...

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Oct 19, 2015 -> 10:18 AM) Yeah, this thread was just revived for some reason. We don't even know what the 2016 roster will be like. My point is that it won't matter what the roster looks like when you still have this management team. Start there, and then worry about a roster.

Predictions? It will look just like 2015 did. As long as management remains the same, from KW down to Ventura--why would anybody think things would get better? This team needs a Cubs-like management purge. Until that happens, I have little hope for success.

Well it's fun to hate them during the crosstown (and their fans) and God help us if there were ever a World Series between us but with us out of it, I don't know what hoping for them to fail achieves. Look at one thing: if they do win it all this year, at least people will finally SHUT UP about it already, being 100 years+. For that alone I totally support them winning. So their fans will STFU, LOL.

QUOTE (Middle Buffalo @ Oct 9, 2015 -> 07:58 AM) I think it's kind of funny, but it reinforces the idea that Sox fans are more concerned with the Cubs than their own team. I'd be against any Cub-centric marketing campaign by the Sox. Just get better. 100% with you. I'm not a Sox fan because I need an outlet for my Cubs hate. It's not even the team I don't like--I don't like their bro fans. But this is soooooo stupid. Back in '05 I got a letter published in the Sun-Times talking about how it's lonely to be a northsider when the Sox are in the playoffs. On that same page was some loser Cub talking about how he would never, ever support the Sox' run no matter what and he didn't care if they were a Chicago team. Whatever. We don't have any reason to talk--they made the moves, spent the money, and now look at them. Sure they had to go through a couple of losing years to rebuild but do you think anybody cares about that now? We've been putting the same so-so thing out for almost a decade. We should be EMULATING them, not hoping for them to lose. So yeah I support them. I'm not watching the games and I'm never ever switching teams but cmon.

I had a laugh re-reading the thread title because it should read: Hahn Confirms: 2016 Will Be 2015 Repeat

I'm with you on this. JR bought himself a lot of time with 2005 but that time has long since past no matter how much they try to remind us of it. It is appalling that in a sports-crazy town like Chicago where there's constant talk of how we could probably support a second NFL team that a historic franchise like the Sox have been run down to, as you so perfectly put it, Cleveland-like levels. I mean FFS even perennial bottom-dwellers KC have turned their team around as we simply sink further and further into their former role in the central. I personally don't care for the Ricketts but damn they did what it took to turn the Cubs around, spent the money, got the talent but most importantly got the MANAGEMENT. Theo Epstein? Joe Maddon? How COULD that fail? And we don't even need to talk about Rocky Wirtz and his immediate impact, save to say that again, he immediately brought in new MANAGEMENT: Coach Q and Tim McDonough (Bowman was already there in a different capacity). I think the reality is that JR is basically the McCaskeys of MLB. Another historic franchise for which you have to go even further back for the last moment of glory. The only difference being that the Bears still have a huge audience and sell out. I really thought the Hawks becoming a dynasty and how they run things would shake JR (or even the McCaskeys) into some sort of action if only for pride--but nothing of any appreciable scale. I think the reality is that the Sox are simply a vanity exercise for JR at this point. A hobby which amazingly still makes him a profit.

God I had forgotten about that.

Will he please just retire already.

QUOTE (captain54 @ Oct 5, 2015 -> 12:58 PM) You aren't really addressing the real issue here… As the Sox drift further away from their last winning season, and even further away from their last playoff appearance. the fans, season ticket holders, etc.. are left scratching their heads and saying, more or less.. "fine and dandy there are roster changes made, but the same people, for a while now, are responsible for making those roster changes, and the same field manager is responsible for squeezing, collectively.. the whole recipe into a winner. it doesn't add up" So in essence, you are holding players accountable for sub par performances by shipping them out.. Why isn't the same standard held for managerial or front office personnel…? Bottom line…good luck convincing the fans that offseason moves in 2016 are gonna come out any differently than previous disappointing years.. Reinsdorf and Co has simply lowered the standard of accountability vs performance in the organization... I've got to wonder at what point does the cratering attendance start to bother JR? Or is attendance truly not affected? But yeah, players can get shipped out and many have (many way too late) but you're right--I've never got the sense that KW's job was in jeopardy since 2005, and he seems to know that. Obviously the Cubs had a plan, and it's paying off big-time now. The Hawks had a plan that Rocky didn't waste any time implementing when he took over. And in that case, Savard was the coach and a sentimental favorite (like you could argue Ventura is) but they didn't waste any time showing him the door to hire Q. Where is that urgency here? I guess what I'm saying is it all falls on JR because KW and management aren't going to fire themselves--only he can do that. We can only live off of 2005 for so long. We deserve better as fans--it's a great fanbase, a great park and should be a worthy rival to the Cubs for Chicagoans' attention. I don't get why we think keeping the same people in charge will produce anything different when it hasn't for 10 years. Before anybody mentions 2008 let's not forget that in reality was a battle between us and Minnesota to see who could blow it and lose the central, and sure enough even though the Blackout game was great fun we got smoked in the first round of the playoffs.

We can sit here all day and say it's the players, it's the players. OK, so if that is the sole reason--who picks the players? We're right back where we started. Insanity as defined by Colbert: changing nothing and then pretending things will change. KW caught lightning in a bottle in 2005 and for that we'll always be grateful. He hasn't done it since--not even close--and I'd say 10 years is enough, wouldn't you? The Cubs were able to run that organization around in, what, four years or so? Hawks even less than that. But they made dramatic changes. We won't even fire our manager FFS.

Everybody keeps focusing on just Ventura--the ALL need to go: him, Hahn and ESPECIALLY KW. Time to clean house. Unless you want to spend another 10 years at the bottom of the AL central. But hey, 2005 was great, wasn't it?

This is great news. Great to hear that at this juncture the Sox not only prize mediocrity, they reward it. How many more years do we have to watch yet another meh Sox team go out there and stink up the central division with there learn-as-you-go manager who's learned nothing as he's gone? It's simply embarrassing at this point, when we have the Blackhawks (regarded as the epitome of a sports organization) and, yes, I hate to say it, the CUBS, who spent the money and made the moves and got a real manager--yet here we are, again nowhere near the playoffs, with KW still running the franchise, coasting on the fumes of 2005. How does JR see that and not think to emulate it? Blow it up already FFS. We s u c k.

My all-time, hands-down favorite Sox player ever. And I also was lucky enough to be at the Perfect Game. What a career. What a class act. Love this guy.

Thank God we can finally back to championship baseball now that we have fired... the bench coach.

I don't think anything done off-season will make a difference if it's only players on the field. Goodbye, Kenny. Goodbye Robin. Hahn I don't know enough about. We need to do a Cubs/Blackhawks reboot. I don't know if that will ever happen while JR is still running the team, but it needs to be done. I'm tired of living off the glory of 2005.

This is definitely sad to watch and I think whoever said it has it right when they say that this is it as long as we're in the JR/KW era. As I've said before, the Sox need a Hawks-like reboot as happened when old man Wirtz died and Rocky took over. And while I don't like the Ricketts, you can't deny they got the big-name talent both on the field and on the managerial side so they're doing pretty much everything you'd want to get a winner. We seem to be simply offering different variations of a formula that hasn't worked really at all in the past decade, since the glorious 2005.

QUOTE (Buehrlesque @ May 13, 2015 -> 02:02 PM) I think the bolded is true of everyone's postulates in this thread. No one's technically "right" or "wrong" because it can't fully be proven. And it doesn't have to be 100% "Sox fans are excuse-making, fickle jerks" OR 100% "Sox team doesn't win enough or try to" anyway. It's probably a combination of things. I think both camps are right to an extent. Sox fans are fickle (and skeptical) — it's not enough for the team to be good (2012) or for management to put an "all in" effort to make the team good (2011, 2015). The front office has to generate a lot of buzz in the offseason AND the team has to play really well in the ensuing season. Unfortunately, this has NEVER happened in recent White Sox memory. Either the team has been unexpectedly good with lower expectations (2008, 2012) or they've been built up with acquisitions and expectations and then thoroughly disappointed (2011, 2015 among others). Sox fans don't buy in in either scenario. The stuff about the Sox being a small market team because of city market share and unresponsive fans, while based in fact and somewhat true, is overblown. The Sox can spend, and have spent. The frustrating part there is that management has put the effort into winning to attract fans, and the team always disappoints in those circumstances, which turns off the fans! At the same time, there are tons of other facts limiting attendance (location, aesthetics, etc.) If the Sox had a beautiful, super new or super retro-new, downtown stadium, they would draw more easily. Unfortunately, they don't. I like the Cell, but objectively it's a generic-looking stadium, without an "aura," located substantially out of the way of the heart of the city. To me, it's an inertia thing. More fans being at the park begets more fans coming to the park. When there's no one there (often the result of a bad team), the park looks empty, lifeless and uninspiring. Truth is, perception (fair or not) is reality. It doesn't inspire someone watching at home to come out. Even if that random fan watching at home did want to go to a game, they know there's no reason to buy a ticket in advance when they could get it day of game and wait to see their home/work schedule, weather, pitching match ups, etc. And so by the time that game rolls around, they find a weather problem or a work problem or whatever other excuse to prevent them from going to the game. Basically, I think it takes commitment and execution from both sides — the team and the fans. The team has to build a winner AND they have to win to get the ball rolling. The fans have to come out and support it. I don't think Sox fans will ever just blindly come out to the Cell, it's just not going to happen. Once the ball is rolling, the rest will begin to take care of itself: more winning means more fans, which means more need to buy tickets in advance, which means more fans committing to coming out in advance regardless of match ups, weather, etc. The opposite — lots of walk up sales for a surprisingly serious late season contender — can happen as well: I remember the insane walk-up crowds late summer 2003 . But that is far less reliable. So I do think the onus is on the Sox to start it out, and it is a little more difficult than it is for other major league team, but that's just the way it is. Good news is, if they ever get it right, the effects could be longer-lasting than we've seen. Remember, the Sox were awful in 2007, yet still drew 2.6 million. They'd kill for that kind of number today. Why did they draw so well? Previous seasons' success raised fan interest and forced/inspired them to buy in advance! So the tickets were already sold before the team tanked. Awesome post. I concur. I've always said that Wrigley has a built-in crowd of super-casual fans just because of its location and its unique landmark look. Somebody once said to me the Cubs and Sox have the same number of diehards--it's in the casual department that they thrive, because you've got non-baseball fans going, people from out of town who want to see it and a trip to Wrigley isn't a one-destination affair because of all the bars and restaurants and nightlife around the area. But when you go to the Sox game, you're turning around and going home when it's over. Even though it's in a "neighborhood" too, it's not a commercialized one like Wrigleyville, not by a longshot. I always wondered why they didn't build the new park on some lakefront lot where it would have sucked all those tourists right into it as they arrived downtown, but alas: what's done is done. That said, in the end people want to see contenders and let's be honest we haven't looked like ones since first half 2006. 2008 was fun but in reality that season was a contest between us and the Twins to see who could lose the division instead of who could win it which, granted, resulted in the unforgettable blackout game. But also the inevitable first-round exit when playing a real contender, Tampa Bay. So with geography against us I'd say yeah: the way to get people to make the trip to The Cell is to have them want to make that trip to see a contender, because that's the only thing you're marketing. You're not marketing a historic ballpark, or a thriving neighborhood where you can party before and after, easily reachable by el or cab. I think Sox fans are dropping off because how many times have we seen this team in the last few years? And then a new year comes and some allegedly big "splash" moves are made (Adam Dunn, anybody) but yet we get the same result. This year there was all this buzz about how we're now favorites to win the Central, forget the Tigers! Ooops. The same result year after year after year tells me this is systemic and not down to this player or that player. I'd start with KW but you could go as high as Reinsdorf. It may very well be this is the future until the new generation owner takes over--like when Rocky Wirtz took over the Hawks--and reboots the entire organization (which, to their credit, the Cubs have pretty much done). It seems like we constantly put off rebuilding from the ground up because KW each offseason decides why, we can win NOW, if we just acquire THAT player! And then it starts all over again. As for the current attendance, all the above notwithstanding, hey: the weather sucks, the far more popular Hawks and Bulls are in the playoffs so of course nobody's going to miss those games to go freeze at the Cell in 50 degree weather outside--including me. It'll jump in June, like it always does.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 13, 2015 -> 01:20 PM) We're looking at 3 straight losing seasons and 4/5. We have done nothing better this decade than doing exactly what people say we can't do. You can't make me fear "OMG what will the fan base do if we tear things down and lose every year" when...we're losing every **** year! LOL no kidding. Exactly.

My first reaction is that this does not bode well for the 2015 White Sox. When you have upper management PUBLICLY stating that the manager has been given a talking-to that he should start... managing... as others have pointed out, this is disturbing on so many levels: a) That a MLB manager needs to be told to start managing b) That a MLB manager needs adult supervision c) When he's supposed to be the adult supervision for the players d) That we're in the second month of a so far terrible season and it's NOW that they're adopting a new approach? Isn't that was pre-season is for, implementing new approaches that you'll use in the regular season? The fact that they made it public could be a couple of things: 1) they don't believe the message will take if given only privately, which is scary (or really passive-aggressive), or 2) they're setting the stage for his exit should things not improve in the near future. Sigh.