NorthSideSox72

QUOTE (ptatc @ Apr 19, 2012 -> 11:00 AM) Maybe they don't think he is mentally ready. QUOTE (scenario @ Apr 19, 2012 -> 11:16 AM) You also see stuff like this happen when a guy needs to work on a certain pitch... and they don't want him to get pounded while doing it. Both good points. Either way, I am encouraged by what Rienzo is doing.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 19, 2012 -> 08:42 AM) Depending on if you count Flowers or not (he would usually be playing a in a day after a night game) there is three today (when you include Escobar and Lillibridge). That'd be a fist then, yeah? Also, have we actually seen the lineup yet? I thoughtwe hadn't, and I guess I skipped over a post about Escobar playing.

Win the game, split the series. Split the series, win the homestand (4-3). Win the homestand, hit the road at 7-5. Hit the road 7-5, and I think we can all say we'd have been happy with that record at this point. Go Get'em Gavin.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 19, 2012 -> 08:31 AM) The full line up hasn't been posted yet, that I have seen anyway. But after he was off last night, I can't imagine he would be sitting again. Also, Robin has shown a pattern so far of getting bench guys work, but NOT running out the infamous "Sunday Lineup". I don't think I've seen him play more than 2 bench guys at once yet (at least to start the game).

QUOTE (JPN366 @ Apr 19, 2012 -> 12:24 AM) It did when Pedro Hernandez went on the DL, but they filled it with Zaleski. Pedro Hernandez went on the DL? I totally missed that. And I agree with caufield... Zaleski over Rienzo? Really?

Rienzo through 3 starts: 18 IP, 14 H, 2 ER, 5 BB, 23 K. He's 23 now. Time to move up when the next slot opens.

Some good discussion here. I want to add a few responses to what I have seen... 1. To the point about bringing Mod/Admin discussions to public light... first, there simply has to be a closed forum like that for discussions to be had without causing even more harm than was already done. Second, after discussions are had, if any action is warranted, we absolutely should contact the poster about it. If the post was clearly insulting and way over the line, we may suspend-then-email, but for smaller stuff, we PM or email first to discuss. I am sure we have not been perfect in this regard, and we can certainly work to be better. But under no circumstances do I think its a good idea to expose every discussion among Mod and Admin staff to the public. 2. I agree that if someone is suspended (as opposed to outright banned), we should suspend their posting rights only, and allow PM's to continue... unless we think there is a reason that would be problematic. 3. Compared to fully open and unencumbered political forums, this place is very calm and well-run. But its all relative. 4. A big part of the reason things seem to have gotten "better" in some ways is that we have lost a ton of regular posters in here, so the discussion has become stale and less involved. And a lot of people left because of the way things had gotten. Add to this that there is little new blood - we all know each others, and can almost always predict responses. 5. I absolutely disagree with the notion that tighter restrictions means you can't have good discussion. On the contrary, if people are forced to be a little more civil, I think the discussion will be much better. But that is just my personal view.

Busterites- I will make this brief. This particular forum has become somewhat difficult to manage. There is a lot of snark going on, and people are pretty constantly toeing or going over the line in the stated rules (see pinned thread). The overall tone back here has been in decline for a few years, and there is discussion of whether or not SoxTalk should even have a political forum at all. And if we do, there has been talk about how best to manage it. Here is what we are looking for: your input. Tell us what you like and don't like about the Filibuster specifically (there is a more general thread about the direction of SoxTalk in the PHT forum). This is NOT - repeat NOT - about any specific posters, so don't go there. We will quickly delete any such posts. What we want to know is... 1. Should there even BE a Filibuster? Should it be its own site? 2. If there should, are the rules as posted satisfactory? What would you add, remove or change from them? 3. How should enforcement be handled? We've been pretty hands-off recently... should we do more to corral certain types of posts? 4. Should there be any limitation on topics discussed? Anything we should simply not discuss at all? 5. How has SoxTalk performed with handling this forum? What can we do better? What do we already do well? 6. Are there any "soft" measures we could take to improve things? By soft, we mean not suspensions and bans and the like, but smaller measures. Your input is important here, as we look to decide where to go with this forum. How people respond will have a strong bearing on the decisions made. So please discuss (and remember, NOT about individual posters). We thank you for your support.

QUOTE (fathom @ Apr 18, 2012 -> 02:49 PM) You make some good points there. The biggest issue I have with everything going on is that Morel just doesn't seem like a good fit as a 2nd hitter no matter what. His approach seems to have been impacted as well, as he's taking more pitches earlier in the count and then chasing pitches way out of the zone. Morel did nothing last season to suggest he shouldn't be an 8 or 9 hitter for the next few years, but unfortunately seems like the Sox are trying to force him into the spot. That, to me, is the best argument for taking him out of that slot. Not because of the slow start. He's got SOME 2 slot hitter skills (uses all fields, looks at some pitches, can bunt), but he doesn't get on base a lot, and strikes out a fair amount. And I have noticed too, he seems awfully hesitant up there, and maybe that's because of his slotting. Robin even said, I think yesterday, Brent needs to go in there and let it fly. That probably makes him the better hitter we saw late last year, but may not be a good fit at #2. De Aza might work well there, but then who leads off? AJ works OK there, not great but OK... but he's been so good at #5 so far I'd be hesitant to move him.

QUOTE (fathom @ Apr 18, 2012 -> 02:46 PM) I was thinking that I'd love to see Rios get a shot at leading off and De Aza batting 2nd. De Aza does a real good job of taking pitches, and it would also open up the hole for him between 1st and 2nd (De Aza pulls a ton of grounders in that direction) a lot more than it does when he's batting after Beckham does. Also, Konerko should be batting 3rd, as you have to get him as many at bats as possible. I don't know about Rios leading off, but De Aza in the 2nd slot is intriguing as a future possibility. I just don't see any real leadoff hitters in the lineup right now.

QUOTE (Cali @ Apr 18, 2012 -> 02:41 PM) This "It's only been 10 games" thing is bulls***. The reason the Sox crapped out the last two years is because they f***ed off in April and spent the rest of the season digging themselves out of a hole. Maybe it was an Ozzie thing maybe not, but as of right now, until they prove otherwise, winning in April is MASSIVELY important to the White Sox* *Asssuming you believe they have a chance to compete. The 2011 team was much more experienced, and had a roster expected to compete in the post-season. This year has a bunch of unknowns, no expectation to compete, a much cheaper and thinner roster, and new management. They are not comparable. Also, your own examples shows you why you are off base. In 2011, the team started their first 10-12 games with a BETTER record than this one... THEN fell off a cliff. If this team is going to compete, it has to have its younger players develop and produce, and they simply can't do that when you are moving them around ane benching them after playing 8 games. If they are NOT going to compete, then play the kids anyway and see what they can do. Either way, making wholesale changes at this point makes zero sense.

QUOTE (flavum @ Apr 18, 2012 -> 12:20 PM) Yes, and that's dumb. This is the easiest stretch of schedule out of the 6 months, and he's going to bury the team in the first 40 games because of being too nice. Easiest? Doesn't look that way to me. Started @ Texas, 2 @ CLE, 3 vs DET, and now 4 against a not-bad Orioles team. And what's dumb is deciding to take a hitter that's in the .100's (which clearly he won't stay at), after 8 friggin games, and start scrambling the lineup. This is just not a reasonable sample size, at all. Not just for 2013, but for this year, you need to know who you have, and you simply don't know that yet. QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 18, 2012 -> 12:37 PM) It has nothing to do with being nice. It is all about finding out who is going to be their players going forward. You don't know that in ten games. Exactly.

Bayne pitched well. Matt Wickswat has not handled the transition to AA, and relief, very well. I have never understood the Sox' love affair with Leesman. I've read the scouting reports, seen his numbers, even seen him pitch a few times... and he just doesn't look like he's a major league pitcher to me. If Phegley keeps hitting a ton and stays healthy, and the Sox are out of it in July, I wouldn't be surprised to see AJ traded.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Apr 17, 2012 -> 03:01 PM) Sure I do. Viciedo will hit 20-30 home runs not even trying to. Dunn will be lucky again to sniff 20. Why oh why did I even get into a discussion with you on this? QUOTE (fathom @ Apr 17, 2012 -> 04:07 PM) Considering we're not facing another lefty in this series, it just seemed like a good spot to get Lillibridge some at bats. I get it, and I would be fine with it if Robin did that. I just also see the other side in this case, and I think it is just as valid.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 17, 2012 -> 02:17 PM) Having all new staff is key here. It is like trading him to another team. You have to give him more than 30ish ABs to see if this group can get through to him. Exactly. Give him a chance in what are essentially new digs. 7 or 8 games doesn't cut it. QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Apr 17, 2012 -> 02:46 PM) I liked his spring too because he was hitting doubles like the Beckham we once knew. He is destined for Charlotte but when? He has been in the lineup just about every day. I think Robin likes the defense and pitching so far and will wait on the hitting. I fear that part of the reason he was doing that in ST was, usually, velocities and pitcher quality on average are both lower in ST than in the regular season. Now that he is facing entirely major league pitchers, and ones throwing their full velocity, he just isn't making it around. I am not ready to cast him off yet, and probably won't be for at least a month or two. He's got an obvious flaw with his hands as he preps the bat, always has, even though he changes it slightly now and again. I am absolutely sure the coaching staff sees this, and are trying things. Let's see if those ideas take before benching him. If he's still 2011-bad or worse in June, then you start talking about flipping him with Escobar or Lillibridge.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Apr 17, 2012 -> 02:27 PM) Robin is showing megabucks Dunn he has confidence in him. Wait ... Ozzie tried that too. It doesn't work when you can't hit. Not piling on. The bottom of our order might start clicking. We can hope. I'd flip flop Dunn and Viciedo for the rest of the season. The rest of the season? Dunn had a huge spring, and already is on pace to far out-pace his numbers from last year (not that that is saying a lot). And it is 9 games into the season. You want to decide now to put Dunn 8th the rest of the season? Seriously?

So far, I've been pretty happy with Robin. More so than I thought I would be. fathom, I get what you are saying about Lillibridge, and I sort of agree. With some of De Aza's recent misadventures in CF, maybe play Rios in CF for a game, have Lilli in right to get his bat in the lineup. But I also see what Ventura is doing here - he wants to give people like De Aza, Morel, Beckham, Viciedo and Rios a real, long-run chance of getting a groove going. This is preferable to the Ozzie method, IMO. So I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. Now, if Morel, Beckham and/or Rios are hitting this crappy come May, then I am all about sitting them more often, and changing the lineup a bit. Play Fukudome and Lillibridge and Escobar more, at that point. And even though his numbers aren't great, I do see a lot of improvement in Dunn. I think he'll be pretty close to pre-Sox Dunn as the year goes on.

I would not be surprised if Axelrod is in the starting rotation in 2013. Or even late 2012, depending on circumstances. Ray Olmedo went 3-for-3... which raised his average to .167. Ouch.

My first regular season game thread of the year. Time to even up the series, and time for the elder Danks to earn that contract. ahem... GO YOU WHITE SOX!!!

QUOTE (MnSoxFan @ Apr 17, 2012 -> 08:54 AM) Shirek needs to show he can stay healthy for a full season. Doubt he is being "watched" to closely by the majors. I don't think it is about health, at least not in terms of injury. He runs out of gas - that is the issue, and that is why I've said for a while now he should be a reliever.

The Knights drew 12 walks in that game. Wow. Charlie Shirek, after disappearing from the prospect radar like 1.5 years ago, so far in Charlotte as their OD starter in 3 games: 15 K vs 2 BB, 17 H in 17 IP. Is he back to being a guy worth watching? Heidenreich looking very nice in his first two starts.

QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Apr 16, 2012 -> 10:45 AM) When he scored on that triple by AJ the other day, I couldn't believe how slow he was running. It looked like he was jogging, but he was going as fast as he could. He was also running on a sore hamstring, according to Gonzo. I was watching that play at the game, seeing how slow he was going, and was shocked to see him get waved around.

I'm glad to see Phegley hitting in AAA. Next year's catching situation alarms me a bit. I'd love it it Josh can be healthy all year and hit a bit. Also looking forward to any scouting reports on his defense.

The problem in this discussion is that people assume depth of talent at any moment in time is the only measure of strength of the system. No, that is only part of the measurement of success. Obviously even more important is, how good has the system been at producing major league talent? And as someone here posted a few months ago, looking at the draft class of 2008 to present, the Sox have produced more major leaguers than any other system in baseball. Let that sink in for a moment. Now, that doesn't mean the Sox system is the best in baseball. What it does tell me is it isn't the worst either, as some have said. These publications are so obsessed with their own analysis of players in the system - which itself is a highly subjective and subject to lots of mistakes - that they focus only on that evaluation of supposed to talent to make their rankings. They are missing some some of the larger points.

QUOTE (Dungus @ Apr 12, 2012 -> 09:52 PM) I still think more purging will be done before it's all said and done. So far I do like the look of the young arms. Welcome to the board... Dungus? QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 12, 2012 -> 09:53 PM) The problem is that the two young arms that look the worst (for now) are Molina and Stewart. Molina is still raw, he needs time. Stewart, on the other hand, I think is a reliever.