southsider2k5

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 20, 2011 -> 02:05 PM) LeBron has to be on that team at this point. QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Jun 20, 2011 -> 03:27 PM) Should MJ have been on that list too at age 26?? By 26, he achieved everything statistically like LeBron and never won a championship yet... Way too early to annoint LeBron an underachiever.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jun 20, 2011 -> 03:25 PM) Who defines his potential? Really? Are you telling me that you don't think LeBron should be better than he has shown?

QUOTE (Chet Kincaid @ Jun 20, 2011 -> 03:25 PM) This question might have been asked here before, but can the Cubs still let Zambrano bat tonight if they wanted? Can he still be the DH even though he is pitching? I know it's an AL park with AL rules, but Zambrano can hit. If Z starts out as a hitter, while pitching, the Cubs lose the DH for that game.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 20, 2011 -> 03:20 PM) you didn't answer my question. QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 20, 2011 -> 03:20 PM) As long as he is playing significantly under his potential, he is underachieving, by definition.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jun 20, 2011 -> 03:14 PM) I've seen enough, and I'm not the one being over-reactionary to one series. The man has been NBA MVP multiple times and has the stellar stats to back it up. You cannot call LeBron James an underachiever. As long as he is playing significantly under his potential, he is underachieving, by definition.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 20, 2011 -> 03:14 PM) I kinda see where both sides are coming from on this one, since I'm of the opinion that Lebron ought to be dominating the league in a way we've never seen before, but yeah, he sorta is dominating the league, just not as much as he should be. Hell, could say the same thing about Howard. Let's try asking this in a different way...2k5, based on what we've seen from Lebron so far in his career, what would you say would be different if he hadn't "Underachieved"? Stats, rings, etc.? That is another way of saying pretty much the same thing that I have been.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jun 20, 2011 -> 03:07 PM) I hope the game tape you reviewed of all 700+ regular season and playoff games he's participated in was entertaining. You're pulling s*** out of your ass because of an overblown NBA Finals. So I take it you have reviewed all 700 of his games to know that it wasn't?

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jun 20, 2011 -> 03:10 PM) Fair enough SS2K5. But at least tell me you see my point of view? I won't use that erm anymore. I see your point of view, I just don't agree with it. I don't expect everyone to agree with me either. Just don't take it that I am personally insulting you if I argue with you.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jun 20, 2011 -> 03:09 PM) I pose the same question to you. http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?s=...t&p=1181720

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 20, 2011 -> 03:07 PM) Ozzie was wrong for using it. That wasn't what you asked. You asked if he should be fired. There is a difference. And by the way, third result on my search. http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?s=...t&p=1181720

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jun 20, 2011 -> 03:03 PM) Shack doesn't know wtf he's talking about. And if I wanted to, I could post what he sent to me through PM. But I'm not gonna do that. I don't live to boost myself up on here. I have strong views and opinions and that's fine. If that's a bad thing then tell me now and I won't post here anymore. Ozzie clearly stated that JM was a "F" word. Now I want to see you or Balta saying Ozzie was wrong for using that term. Don't tell me you can't find it. Knight and Heads had no problem finding my posts last year on how Phil Humber would be garbage and throwing it back in my face. I challenge you guys to do the same. Ozzie was wrong for using it. That wasn't what you asked. You asked if he should be fired. There is a difference.

QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Jun 20, 2011 -> 02:54 PM) You're putting way too much stock in this year's finals. Are you really saying he should have done more with the Cavs? How many guys would have been able to carry that awful team to the NBA Finals like when he almost single-handedly beat the Pistons? How many guys would have won 60+ games his last two years in Cleveland? Sure, they lost in the playoffs, but Orlando and Boston were just better than them. How many guys would have been able to win a series when his second best player was as awful as Mo Williams was? I mean Jesus, Lebron averaged 38-8-8 against Orlando and they still had no chance. He wasn't as good against Boston, but he still averaged 27-9-7. He was super-human in the only two games they won that series, it's hard when you have to do that EVERY game. This past year is the first time you can legitimately say he SHOULD have won a title, and even then an awful lot of people were looking at Boston or the Bulls to win the East and the Lakers to win it all. I'd love to see what you would have said about Jordan in the summer of 1990... There was a fairly sizable feeling that he quit in his last NBA finals as well.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jun 20, 2011 -> 02:50 PM) And you just proved my point. So Ozzie can insinuate somebody is the "F" word but I use the "R" word to describe a piece of an article and I'm the devil? Yeah. I win. Whether you like it or not. Yeah, because you are the devil. I think shack is right about your me complex. I also am pretty right about what you would think of being used as an insult, because you take it personally when someone disagrees with you. You would lose it if I used you to mean some sort of sub-intelligent figure. Honestly, I believe something like this should be used as an opportunity to make yourself a better person. That's why it even got brought up. But if you are perfectly proud of your ignorance here, there isn't much of a point.

QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Jun 20, 2011 -> 02:49 PM) I think Omar should be in actually As do I.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jun 20, 2011 -> 02:45 PM) Yes, reality be damned. Great point. I hate to break this to you, but stats aren't the reality. The games played are the reality. I don't see how anyone could argue that LeBron is anywhere near what he should be on the floor. (And I haven't seen anyone here do that yet)

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jun 20, 2011 -> 02:45 PM) This is outstanding. I totally forgot about this. Now to Balta and SS2K5, should Ozzie still be our manager? Should we ban you for saying something like that?

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jun 20, 2011 -> 02:30 PM) Christ, how many league MVP's does LeBron need to win? I know it's fashionable to pile on LeBron and hilarious how bad he was in the 4th quarters of these NBA Finals, but he's nowhere near any all-time underachiever list. QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jun 20, 2011 -> 02:32 PM) He's averaged 27.7 points, 7.1 boards, and 7.0 assists over 627 games. Cut the guy a break... that's some amazing s*** right there. QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Jun 20, 2011 -> 02:32 PM) Seriously. It's a stretch to say that a multi-MVP winner is a massive underachiever. By the same logic, are we going to include Shaq? With his size and athleticism, should he have won even MORE rings and MVP's? Should Wilt Chamberlain have had more 50-30 type seasons? Now if Lebron NEVER wins a ring that would be another story, but saying it right now is a little ridiculous. He's still going to be a first ballot hall of famer. To me there is a big difference between stats and achievement. Obvious numberswise you can't say LeBron underachieved. But all you have to do is watch the guy to know he leaves a lot on the floor. To me that is the ultimate in underachieving, stats be damned.

QUOTE (kjshoe04 @ Jun 20, 2011 -> 02:32 PM) Eddy Curry should be at least the backup center. That's a great name for the list as well.

QUOTE (kjshoe04 @ Jun 20, 2011 -> 02:30 PM) f*** the cubs.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jun 20, 2011 -> 02:21 PM) I think I'll wait until he's 33-34 before I make that claim. I don't think he'll ever develop the things he should, but there is still a chance he disappears for a summer and develops a post game. I know things change, and that is why I included the qualifier about as of today.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Jun 20, 2011 -> 02:25 PM) Heck. If you're going to add Lebron then you'll have to add a slew of other guys who never won a title like Barkley, Stockton, and Malone. None of those guys had anywhere near the abilities and talents of LeBron. Unfortunately LeBron has none of those guys's work ethics either.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jun 20, 2011 -> 02:15 PM) Oh Lord, absolutely not, dude. Absolutely. I also would have included Zach Randolph up until the last year or so.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jun 20, 2011 -> 02:15 PM) There is? Do tell. I'd love to hear your hypothesis on this. You just heard it in so many words through this thread.

QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Jun 20, 2011 -> 02:15 PM) My mom used to work with people with learning disabilities, she learned that stuff in grad school and would tell us stuff. Actually pretty interesting how they used to classify people with any sort of mental handicap. I had to wiki it. I never knew that.

QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Jun 20, 2011 -> 02:12 PM) Technically that's not true. The term "idiot" used to be the medical term for people with severe mental retardation. Almost anything insulting can be construed as offensive to someone. Heh, learn something new everyday.