[3/9/08 Sox vs Friars Gamethread]

Jose is pitching today, let's see if he looks better

[3/3 Game Thread, Sox/Royals]

Do you guys think that Danks really could have gained 3 mph of velocity? That would be awesome if he had a FB in the mid 90s. It's plausible, but kinda hard to believe, however he's only 22 years old, so he theoretically could gain velocity still.

[Chicago- Uncyclopedia]

The quote about West Dundee is soo true. There ain't s*** to do in Elgin except piss away your life savings at the casino. You would think in a city of 100,000 there would be a damn mall within the city limits. I've said this since I was a freshman in HS, that Elgin sucks and I have no f***ing clue why everyone is moving here. In the last 10 years we've had a population increase of about 11-15 thousand.

[Make a wild or bold predicition for the 2008 Sox]

Sox go 89-73, but still finish in 3rd.

Danks doesn't make the team out of ST, pulling a complete 180 from last March,(i.e too many BBs) and Masset takes his spot in the rotation, and doesn't give it up (has a start to the season like Danks last year, pitches well but gets screwed by the offense and bullpen- he goes 9-13 on the season with a 4.4-4.6 ERA, but the stuff that KW talked about when he picked him up is there).

Floyd goes 13-11, 4.25 ERA 170 K

Vazquez has the best season of his career.

Contreras continues to be an automatic loss( he only wins two or three games) causing them to dump his salary by July 1st.(someone takes a flier on him)

Danks comes back to the big club and has a decent,( 6 wins;4.4-4.6 ERA) but losing second half.

Jose's suckitude is the sole reason the Sox don't make the playoffs.

Buehrle finally wins 20, but doesn't get any Cy Young consideration because he only has 150-160 K.

The bullpen is highly bi-polar, being lights out of the gates and down the stretch, but 2007-esque in June and July.

Thome spends as much time on the DL as he did in 2005, and after a season ending injury, he retires, pushing Dye to DH.

Swisher has the best offensive season, hitting .275 with 35-40 HR and 100-120 RBI. He hits 3rd while Thome is injured.

Richar is batting Leadoff by August.

[Aaron Poreda]

Poreda is the one guy that I irrationally believe is going to be a star. Despite what I have heard about his slider being a show-me pitch and his change being worse, I have hope that his secondary pitches will develop to solid options, and that despite his crappy mechanics, he won't get hurt. Realistically, he probably won't make it past AA.

[Your Least Favorite Commercial]

I hate the Hillshire Farm cheerleading commercials. So f***ing stupid. I haven't seen a funny commercial since the Make 7 Up Yours commercial where the oriental guy says "I'm going to stick it up yours"

[AAP:Aaron Poreda]

I think it would be a mistake to rush him. I would be happy if he spent most, if not all of next season in A ball and just worked on his secondary stuff because if he gets his slider and change-up to a good level he could be a great pitcher, however, if you're throwing him into the minors with just his fastball and below average slider/change-up there's a good chance he'll get rocked.

I totally agree with the above statement, furthermore, he was a college pitcher, but he was 20 years old when drafted, as compared to most college guys who are 21-22. I think it would be a good idea to keep him in the minors through the 2009 season and let him develop his slider/change. IMO he shouldn't get rushed and he shouldn't be in AAA until next year at the earliest if he keeps dominating. IMO he should spend most of this season in Winston-Salem with a taste of AA towards August.

[Spring Semester]

This semester sucks.

Organic Chemistry II

Engineering Physics II

Computer Programming(C++)

And to think it only gets worse.

[White Sox Acquire Nick Swisher from Athletics]

1. Cleveland and Detroit arent light years ahead of anyone. Both teams have question marks. Also baseball is very fickle, a team can win 90 2 years in a row and then win only 70 with almost the exact same team...

They are light years ahead of the Sox. Cleveland has Sabathia and Carmona and Detroit has Verlander and Bonderman at the top of the rotation, both whom have the ability to shut guys down in the playoffs. In 2 of 3 Buehrle playoff starts in 2005, he gave up 4 ER in 6 IP. Check Buehrle's career numbers against Boston and NYY. Mark is an excellent #2, but not anywhere close to an ace. Contreras is washed up. Javy can be that guy but gets knocked around too often to be considered one. Strike one:No ace. We have the fourth best pitching staff in the division if Santana stays in Minny. Detroit, Minny and Cleveland have better bullpens. Bullpens are volatile, and can go south at any minute. We only have 2 reliable bullpen guys. Though Borowski and Jones give their team's fans heart attacks in the ninth, they get the job done. Their middle and long relief are way better than us. Strike two: weak bullpen. Detroit has a lineup that is almost equal with the Yankees. We have to face them 19 times. IMO none of our pitchers will have an ERA below 4 this season except maybe Buehrle, who will at the lowest have a 3.90. Cleveland has Sizemore, Hafner, and Martinez, who are in their prime or are only going to get better, in Sizemore's case. They also have some young talented hitters. Minnesota's lineup is not as good as ours but they're the f***ing Twins who always find a way to pull a rabbit out of their hat. I HATE MINNY. Strike three. The Sox are out(of division contention)

 

2. Yes I read the thread. But Bearsox is not a scout. He is posting hearsay which is completely unreliable. You cant just rely on the statements of other people as gospel.

Check the minor league forum. There's this guy named Bureau who is a scout for the Sox. I was referring to him, not BearSox. The mods have verified his identity. Read the argument about Poreda.

 

3.

 

Thanks for proving my point. The Red Sox traded Sanchez and Hanley for Beckett. They won a world Series based on that trade.

Hanley and Sanchez would be two of the White Sox best prospects in the history of the team, and they were traded for a player who had never pitched over 200 innings in the NL.

Who'd of thunk it? When the trade went down I thought Boston got hosed. Though Beckett had ace stuff, I was convinced that Beckett was snake bitten by injuries. He had a 5.20 ERA in 2006. Who's to say the AL won't catch up to him again? He still has had injury problems, He was on the DL once this year.

 

And Garland was a Cubs prospect.

Who is the last White Sox pitcher the Sox drafted and was home grown like DLS or Gio....

Cant take credit for some one elses scouting department.

Garland was traded to the Sox as soon as the Cubs could trade him. He was drafted in June 1997 and traded in July 1998. He never pitched above low A ball with the Cubs. How can you credit the Cubs for developing him if he only pitched in rookie ball and a half season in Low A with them? The Sox scouts had to identify him in a trade, didn't they? IMO Garland counts, whether you like it or not.

[White Sox Acquire Nick Swisher from Athletics]

So what hes not a long term CF most likely. He can play 3 other positions which the White Sox will have a need for in the upcoming 2-3 seasons (LF, RF, 1B) so perhaps he plays out of position 1 season. Big deal, Swisher is now one of the most talented players on the White Sox.

Yeah, so what. Cleveland and Detroit are still lightyears ahead of us.

I assume you are a professional scout or Dr to make a conclusion like this.

Did you read the thread by the soxtalk resident scout?

Top 10 spects by BA in 2006 http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/featu...s/whitesox.html

 

1. Bobby Jenks, rhp

2. Brian Anderson, of

3. Ryan Sweeney, of

4. Josh Fields, 3b

5. Jerry Owens, of

6. Robert Valido, ss

7. Ray Liotta, lhp

8. Lance Broadway, rhp

9. Francisco Hernandez, c

10. Sean Tracey, rhp

As you can see its very hard to say that any 3 spects 2-3 years later would drastically devastate a team.

Thats a horrible idea. The White Sox would lose all the gains they made by winning the World Series within 2-3 seasons. They would go back to being a second class team and the place would be empty. The farm system has sucked for a long time. The scouting sucked. What do you expect? Look at Boston's list from 2005-07. Hanley Ramirez-awesome player Anibal Sanchez-has thrown a no-hitter, but has had TJ surgery. Who knows, but the potential is still there after TJ surgery. According to the guys on the baseball team at my school, a pitcher's stuff improves after TJ.(though both are on FLA) Jon Papelbon-Lights out closer. Clay Buchholz-Threw a no-hitter in his first start.

 

Not to mention the Marlins trade for MLB ready spects. Gio, DLS, and Sweeney were not those types. If anything Swisher is more of a player the Marlins would want, young, cheap, signed for years, and already proven.

Maybe it doesnt, but it makes it much easier for the Sox to put themselves over the edge. Right now if the Sox can get 1-2 consistent durable pitchers they will win a lot more games. Its a work in progress, but to say right now that things dont look better for the Sox for now and the future is kind of silly.

This is exactly what the Sox should do. Trade Paulie, Dye, Thome(if you can agree to get him to waive the NTC) etc for these guys

 

Who was the last top 10 Sox pitching prospect to be an All-Star?

Garland

 

[White Sox Acquire Nick Swisher from Athletics]

1. Swisher played almost 60 games in CF last year.

 

2. How is Aaron Poreda an injury waiting to happen? Based on what exactly?

 

3. If none of the guys in the minors will be anything for three year, how will the Sox be the worst team in the world in 2010?

 

4. Why shouldn't KW try to compete? What is he supposed to do? Trade all the veterans away and field a Marlin's type team?

 

5. How does this trade make it less likely that the Sox will compete THIS year? None of the players the Sox traded would really have helped this year, so how does this impact 2008?

See BearSox's post. He read my mind.

[White Sox Acquire Nick Swisher from Athletics]

I absolutely despise this trade. KW talks about these guys as being too much to give up for Cabrera and then trades them for Swisher? That is bulls***. The Sox needed to be doing what the As and Marlins are doing, stockpiling prospects and trading away overpriced veterans. I don't know if Swisher can even play CF, meaning that the Quentin trade was stupid. The Sox will be challenging the 1962 Mets for worst team ever in 2010. There is no one, at the moment, in the minors that is ready to play in the majors. None. Zero. Zilch. Nada. Nein. Aaron Poreda is an injury waiting to happen. I doubt Lance Broadway will do anything at in the majors once he faces a team other than the Royals. Most of the guys that project to be major leaguers are HS guys who were drafted in 2007, meaning they are at least 3 years away. KW is on crack, acid or needs to be put in the looney bin if he had any hope or prayer of the Sox competing before 2010 before this trade, because Detroit and Cleveland are that much better than us. Now, we'll be lucky if we're competing by 2013. Here's to 5 seasons in last place. I still love the Sox and will support them through this terrible play, but I hope that JR sees the light and fires KW before he runs the franchise into the ground, to the point that we're the laughingstock of MLB. Hell, the Marlins will compete before us.

[White Sox hope to rise from the ashes in 2008]

I really don't want to see Brian Anderson starting off the season in the big leagues. I think the best thing for both the Sox and for him is for him to start one more season in AAA and have to earn his spot in the big leagues by hitting down there again. If he'd had more success when he went down last year I'd be of a different mind, but I can't see calling him up as the appropriate thing to do until he at least shows he's got his head back enough to hit AAA pitching. And barring injury, I want to see Quentin starting every day to start the season.

Wasn't Anderson having wrist problems after he went down to AAA? I know he had surgery in June or something. Could that possibly be the reason why he only hit .255 in Charlotte?

[White Sox hope to rise from the ashes in 2008]

If no other moves are made, I think that a 5 player consistent platoon should happen. Quentin, Owens and Dye are the regular OF. Against LHP move Quentin to RF, Owens to LF and Anderson in Center, along with Dye at DH. Platoon Quentin and Anderson every now and then, sliding Owens to LF with Anderson in center. Have the LHP lineup every now and then to give Thome and Dye a rest. Quentin and Anderson each get 350+ AB. This is Anderson's last shot to prove that he can play at the big leagues. If BA gets his head out of his ass, then he could still be something.

[College Scholarships?]

Does anyone know how to find real scholarship websites or info through universities, and not the bulls*** sites like fastweb? I think that the fastweb type websites are bulls*** and are misleading people, and I want to find some real stuff. Thanks.

[FireKennyWilliams.com]

He was using his cut fastball a lot more this past season, and he was throwing it around 93 mph.

If he was working exclusively with the cutter the whole season, then that would explain the 93-95 readings. I just think that if he couldn't throw the 4-seamer faster than 94-95 then his cutter would suffer as well and be 89-91.

[FireKennyWilliams.com]

Jenks was in the low 90s for a portion of the season. I don't know if he ever got his fastball consistently over 96 mph this seasion.

I know his fastball was slower at the beginning of the season, but the 2nd part is BS. If he was throwing 94-95 at the highest the whole season, then he would have been crushed. His fastball has practically no movement and hitters would have teed off on him. It would have been Shingo 2005 part deux. I doubt he hit 100 this season, but from June on I'd bet that he was consistently 95-97 with a few at 98-99. Otherwise that stretch of 41 retired batters could have turned into 41 straight batters reaching base.

 

[FireKennyWilliams.com]

I've heard the total opposite, and that the readings on that site were off the whole season.

It has to be better than the Comcast/WGN guns. They had Jenks' fastball as low as 88-89 multiple times last season, which, judging by his effectiveness is BS. I didn't see Jenks hit 95 on the WGN/Comcast guns more than four or five times the whole season, and that was the highest reading I saw from him. He did hit 94 countless times. If Bobby was throwing in the low 90s the whole season, he would have been knocked around as hard as JoeBlow IMO. For Gavin, The comcast readings were anywhere from 86-88 for the 2-seamer/sinker and 89-93 for the 4-seamer, which leads me to believe that the guns were 3-4 mph slow the whole season.

[FireKennyWilliams.com]

On the gun on the MLB website for gameday, which I have heard is the most accurate, Floyd was consistently 92-95 with the 4 seamer(I'd watch the game on TV and look at the computer for the gun) with a few pops at 96 and worked in the 93-94 range. He'd have at least one or 2 fastballs per inning with a reading of 95-96 mph. The the 89-91 mph fastballs had 2-seamer/sinker movement on them.

[Top of the rotation starters]

Well, IMO, you're looking at them the right way, because they're exactly the kind of guys we need right now. Guys who other teams might have some questions about, guys who aren't looked at as top 10 in baseball prospects, but guys who still have some stuff and who can be had cheaply. Why? Because these are the kind of guys we can get without giving up too much, and if we could coach them to their potential, their return could be really high. They're the definition of low risk, high reward. If they flop, then all we do is get another top 10 draft pick next year and find someone to replace them.

 

So, let's go ahead and look at them with the rose colored glasses. The only harm in that is that we'd have another losing season, which is what would happen if we tried to fix the pitching staff issues by spending $100 million to sign Silva and Lohse and rebuild the Twins Rotation by signing all the crappy guys at the bottom of it.

If that is the case, then by all means they should keep Masset on the 25 man roster in case Contreras doesn't have it. Nick has awesome stuff, the same thing I said about Floyd can be said for him. BTW, when we got Floyd in the trade, I said that Philly gave up on him too early in the seasons, and didn't let him take his lumps in the majors. He only had 57 IP over a 2 year span, with about 24 each year and a few as a September callup in 2004. Even Verlander had a 7.00 ERA his first goaround in the majors. If Philly would have stuck with him when they weren't going anywhere, then maybe he would have lived up to the #4 draft position for them. On another note, the Sox should go around finding players, both position and pitchers, that are at the 23-26 age range who are blocked by in the depth chart or that organizations have just soured on that have good speed/OBP/power potential for the position guys and great stuff for pitchers. These are the guys that KW should be going after through our minor league system.(sans DLS/Gio/Danks)I want to see more Carlos Quentin like deals. If we get enough of them, then 4 or 5 will turn out to be keepers. IMO a GM should be looking for Carlos Quentin type deals every year.

[Top of the rotation starters]

Danks was 22 years old for most of the season, spent only 2 and a half years in the minors out of HS, and never pitched in AAA. The fact that he pitched league average for the first half of the season(4.5 ERA) at that age, with that amount of minor league experience shows me what kind of pitcher he is. IMO he knows how to pitch. If he can throw that curve for strikes and learn to utilize the cutter he's supposedly learning, I don't see why he can't be a #2 starter. If all goes well, he could be Buehrle with a 7 or 8 K/9 because Mark's fastball is 86-89 and John's is 91-94. He could potentially blow hitters away with low 90s heat coming from the left side, because most leftys don't throw that hard. I think that Danks' ceiling is what Erik Bedard is now. For Floyd, I still hold hope that he could turn out to be Roy Halladay part deux. A top ten pick who flamed out in his early 20s, but then learns to harness his stuff, and becomes awesome. Granted this is highly unlikely, but he has the stuff to do it. What is good to know is that he still possesses the 93-96 mph fastball that he was drafted with, and that we have a pitching coach who was anointed a genius about 2 years ago when he helped turn a pitcher who had the classic million dollar arm, 10 cent head syndrome into the most dominant in the AL for a year. If Contreras wasn't 39-40 years old in 2006, but rather Floyd's age, I think he'd still be awesome. If Coop can get Floyd's head straight and teach him to trust his stuff, there's no reason that he can't at least be a serviceable #3, if not a #2. I don't think that either of them can be aces, but if everything goes right, there's no reason that either of them can't be a #2 or 3 starter. Unfortunately for the Sox, I may be just looking at these guys with rose colored glasses.

[Do we need a philosophical change?]

Not defending the Garland trade, but besides the Santana talks obviously and the Willis deal (Miggy's the main part, and would have cost Maybin and Miller minimum), how many trades have there been for SP's bringing back top prospects?

 

It's only superior SP's such as Haren, Bedard etc. that are being talked about as bringing back some real top prospects.

What's bothering me is that in order to even speak to Oakland or Baltimore about Haren and Bedard you have to be willing to part with FOUR top prospects. And we couldn't even get one for Gar??? Granted Garland isn't on the same level with Haren, Santana, et al, but if those guys get you 4, then Garland should at least get you one. Garland had a 3.15 ERA at the all star break. He got knocked around By minny, Boston and NYY for 11,7, and 9 ER in 4 IP or less during a 3 week stretch in July. The 11 ER start was in just 1 and 2/3 innings. That takes a huge hit on an ERA. The 9 ER start was 2 and 2/3 innings. He admitted he had was having some shoulder issues during that stretch. After that he was the same pitcher he was before the break. He had a few absolutely awful abberations and he Still finished with a 4.23 ERA, which any "league average" pitcher would have his ERA in the mid 5s or worse. Garland was very improved this year and he had almost as good of a first half as he did in 2005. Garland should have fetched something half as good as the packages that those guys are fetching, meaning 2 top guys. The only way that we should have gotten the return that we did is if there are huge concerns with Garland's shoulder and KW dumped him off on LAA because both teams knew he was going to miss some time this year.

[Do we need a philosophical change?]

The Garland trade really pisses me off right now given how the other SP on the market are fetching multiple top prospects. And we only got a 33 year old shortstop for a good but not great SP??? Seems to me that either KW got fleeced or there's something with Garland's shoulder that we don't know about and we only got Cabrera for him because the Angels knew they were taking a risk.

[Video Game Catch-All Thread]

Any Golf gamers out there? My library has games you can check out(awesome) and I picked up TW 08 for 360 for a weekend, and it was pretty awesome for the most part. My only beef with the game is that Tiger can't drive 350 yards like he can in real life and the 3-click swing is impossible.( you can keep it on analog if you want) It is a visually impressive game, and the gameplay is very good too. What are the best golf games you've played for any system? I really wish I had time to play games more because my classes are very grueling this semester. 3 lab classes All of you other dudes in college, how do you have any time to play games? BTW, I played the MLB 2K series for 2 years(unfortunately the only MLB game on 360) and went back a couple months ago to play MVP 2005 for my PS2. I was terribly disappointed, in fact I thought that MLB 06 the show was better than it. What's all the fuss aboot regarding the MVP 2005. Its really not any different than any other baseball game.

[Nick Masset]

AAAA pitchers, by definition are good in AAA.

Wasn't he pretty good in AAA in the Rangers system? I'm sure he had issues with adjusting to being a starter again and confidence when he got sent down in July. I'm sure he had to pitch pretty well there if he got a shot with the Rangers.