WCSox

QUOTE (Frank_Thomas35 @ Jul 31, 2010 -> 12:26 PM) Ken_Rosenthal #WhiteSox believe #Nats are using them to drive interest in Dunn. Nats had asked for Beckham. No discussions, to repeat, in days. #MLB 1 minute ago 35 min left STOP fing around Mike. If the rumor about Rizzo reneging on Kenny is true, his days as a GM are numbered.

I seriously hope that Kenny doesn't claim Manny off of waivers next week. Even if they don't have to eat his deferred salary, the remainder of his contract is still a lot for a guy who isn't even healthy right now.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Jul 31, 2010 -> 10:42 AM) At this point I think we're stuck with the dismal rotating DH debacle. As much as I hate to see Kotsay in the lineup 4 days a week, I still think that getting a veteran starting pitcher was the right move (even if he's a marginal upgrade over Hudson). In a tight division race, having a legit #5 starter is important.

QUOTE (Frank_Thomas35 @ Jul 31, 2010 -> 10:05 AM) Andruw Jones is nowhere close to the hitter ManRam is! Not now or the last three years. And ManRoids is worthless defensively and a terrible clubhouse guy. Oh, and he's had like 60 at-bats this year. We could certainly use an upgrade at DH, but the rest of our lineup hasn't exactly been sucking over the past 7 weeks. And if Manny's on the DL, he's not going to help out much anyway.

I'll pass. He's injury-prone (and currently injured), he's declined significantly, he can't play defense, he has a bad attitude, and he's a former PED user. I like Jones better than Manny.

QUOTE (CarlosMartinez @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 09:59 PM) I wasn't trying to say that at all but he did have a blown save. If you have a chance to run 5 starters out with experience in a playoff run you do it. Pretty sure no one looked at Hudson's stuff and said it was filthy like they did of Jenks in 05. Jenks was acquired off of the scrap heap in '05. Obviously, not many GMs were enthralled with his stuff (or his surgically-repaired elbow, or his alcohol problem). On the other hand, Kenny has been singing Hudson's praises since last summer and several GMs were reportedly interested in dealing for him recently. I agree with your general point about preferring experienced/accomplished players in the playoffs over younger ones. That said, Jackson's relative lack of success in the bigs seriously mitigates his favorability over Hudson, IMO.

QUOTE (CarlosMartinez @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 09:54 PM) Blown save in Game 2 says hi. Yeah, Jenks was clearly a bust down the stretch in '05.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 09:46 PM) I don't think Ozzie or Cooper trust rookies in a pennant race. Bobby Jenks says hi.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 09:41 PM) Why didn’t they structure a three way deal from the start? This way no one has to take an unnecessary risk, no one gets screwed, and all parties can back out none the worse for wear. Kenny is a good friend of Billy “Master of the three-way trade” Beane: you’d think he’d of gotten some good tips. This point still bothers me, and makes me suspicious of this allegation. Three-way trades happen all of the time and it's pretty much a no-brainer that this (alleged) situation called for just that. And Cooper was supposedly reviewing film of Jackson a day or two ago, which suggests that he was going to be in Chicago for the next year and a third. I'm wondering if Rizzo pissed off Kenny during negotiations before any of this went down, and the Sox front office is anonymously putting this story out to make Rizzo look like a jerk.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 09:38 PM) One thing that I learned from listening to KW, Cooper, and Ozzie today is that they were not high on Hudson at all. Which is the polar opposite of what they've been saying about Hudson for the past year. So this was either gamesmanship on the Sox's part to inflate Hudson's trade value, or the Sox trying to save face after Rizzo's alleged renege.

QUOTE (wsgdf_2 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 09:29 PM) Two reasons I can think of: 1. He was hoping it would force the Rays or Yankees to give him what he was REALLY after. 2. He's trying to help his old team (DBacks). 3. Combination of the two (I think the most likely). Could be, and I suppose that he also may have tried to strong-arm another prospect out of the Sox after the fact. If he thinks that he can give his word to another GM and then renege after they trade a top prospect and commit $10M to a player, he'd better get his resume up on Monster.com soon because half of the league is going to blacklist him. I'm still not completely convinced that this is true, because it arguably made more sense for the Sox to trade for a SP than a DH at this point.

I have a difficult time believing that the Nats would have such a massive hard-on for Jackson in the first place.

QUOTE (Heads22 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 09:00 PM) Heard from an exec not involved in the discussions that the White Sox are furious with the Nats over Edwin Jackson. via Law. So did Rizzo actually give Kenny his word that he'd deal Dunn for Jackson? Because it makes absolutely zero sense for them to not do a three-way deal. Or does Rizzo have a reason for screwing over the Sox and turning himself into a pariah?

QUOTE (BearSox @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 07:18 PM) Also, yeah, Figgins is terrible this year. And considering the amount of money he is owed over the next 3 years, he ain't worth the risk, Figgins is unhappy in Seattle and that would likely account for a large portion of his suckiness. If the Mariners are committed to Wakamatsu, they might dump salary to move Figgins, who plays 3B a lot better than Teahen or Viciedo. That said, this would be a move that the Sox would explore in the off-season, not now. Too many 1B/3B on the current roster. I also doubt that Wakamatsu is managing the Mariners next season, so it may be a moot point. He and Griffey didn't speak for the two weeks prior to Griffey's retirement, and there are rumors that he forced him out. My guess is that they fire Wakamatsu before dealing Figgins.

QUOTE (Frank_Thomas35 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 07:59 PM) I don't think the Sox trade Viciedo. He looks too legit, Hawk had said multiple time Beckham an Viciedo will be the faces of the franchise for a long time. I know Hawk is a homer but he has been around a long time and knows when a player has a chance to be great. I think Dunn would be great for us. But at this point I woul be upset, very upset if we trade EJax or Viciedo in the next few hours. Other than them have your pick, I know it's slim but too bad. I'd be plenty satisfied with a Brad Hawpe or Bautista who will cost much leas IMO. Agreed about Viciedo. He's looked very legit thus far.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 07:08 PM) This is Mr. big gamble we're talking about here. This is also a guy who's been around the block before and knows the type of underhanded crap that some GMs pull. If Kenny wanted Dunn and no part of Jackson, he most likely would've pushed for a three-way trade. It's not crazy to think that Kenny wanted to improve the #5 rotation spot and that's it. They just lost their ace, after all. While Jackson is maybe a marginal upgrade over Hudson, he's still an upgrade for this season. It's also not unfathomable that the Sox have been publicly talking up Hudson to set up a trade because there's something that they don't like about him (mechanics, work ethic, etc.).

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 07:04 PM) Nobody's going to want to deal with him from here on out. He basically drove Jackson's price up and then said, oh wait. f***er... I don't think that Kenny would've traded for Jackson if he wasn't prepared to be stuck with him.

QUOTE (ScottyDo @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 04:57 PM) I am an unabashed, completely biased fan of Ichiro and I would buy an Ichiro jersey the MOMENT the trade was announced. That said, if his cost was prohibitive, we could EASILY flip him again this offseason, no question. God, if ONLY it was Ichiro.... I don't see the Mariners dealing Ichiro. That would be like us dealing Frank 7 or 8 years ago. Crawford sounds much more likely.

QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 03:23 PM) Usually teams don't trade top prospects for top prospects for the reason you mentioned. The team receiving the overhyped prospect would think to themselves, "Why do they want to trade us their top pitching prospect for one of our guys?" Then they'll proceed not to do the deal because they'll think possible injury, lack of potential, or lack of major league potential. True, but it's not unheard of. Kenny did this a few years ago with the Rangers (McCarthy for Danks).

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 02:28 PM) I think that Jackson could be exponentially better than Hudson. There is a reason why the Sox made the deal, and its not because they are in the business of overpaying for players who arent as good. My guess is that Coop soured on Hudson, while at the same time he likes Jackson. Agreed with all of this. Jackson is barely a major league starter, and he's owed ~$10M. If Kenny was looking to move Hudson before he was exposed as over-hyped, he could've dealt him for another prospect. Taking on that salary for a below-average pitcher when the Sox already have something like $70M committed to next season and several holes to fill makes little sense to me.

QUOTE (BearSox @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 02:31 PM) Until we are off the hook for it, it still counts. Just like Linebrink's salary. I hate to lump Jackson in the same category as Linebrink, but he's not that far away performance-wise.

QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 01:44 PM) I haven't read everything and probably won't because I don't have that type of time. In the end though, I'm very happy if we keep Jackson. As a 4th or 5th starter, he can definitely get us to the playoffs. In the playoffs, he can be an electric arm out of the pen. I think if he can get with a good pitching coach, he's a better player for it. I won't be too upset if he isn't flipped for Dunn or anyone else. I won't be too upset if he isn't flipped for another bat. With Peavy and Hudson out of the picture, trading Jackson for a DH would arguably make our situation even worse.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 12:54 PM) Ted Lilly's about the one pitcher we could add that would piss me off more than Jackson. I don't understand this. Lilly was an average/above-average pitcher in Toronto and Oakland before his numbers were inflated by playing for the Cubs. He's a lot safer than Jackson and we won't owe him $8.35M next year.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 12:45 PM) Jackson's still young. When we got Javy, he was nearing his 30s. I'm in no way defending this deal, but I don't know if that's a great comparison. Given that Javy had multiple years of success in the bigs, I agree that it's not a very good comparison. Somebody mentioned flipping Jackson to the Cubs for Lilly. I actually like that idea.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 11:51 AM) We have about $75 million locked up in salary next year. I heavily doubt it. Jackson is owed $8.35M next year. Dunn would probably make about $12M. Not a huge difference.