WCSox

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 24, 2010 -> 09:16 AM) But does it really, really make sense to trade Flowers, Hudson, Danks/Morel (etc.) for Prince Fielder? I'm not even convinced it makes complete sense to trade Viciedo for Fielder, simply because 6 years of an affordable Viciedo might end up providing a lot more production than a season and one-half of Fielder, and then there's the fact that he will have to adjust to the AL pitching as well. (Yes, I'm well aware Fielder is a proven commodity...and that the trade would be much bigger than Viciedo for Fielder anyway.) That's a riskier move than adding Rios and Peavy, because we lost a fifth starter/long reliever out of that, not 2 or 3 key future pegs on our roster. Because if we can't keep Fielder long-term (or afford him, and we haven't exactly shown a proclivity for handing $100 million+ contracts out), then this franchise is really going to be in a huge hole, and it would also make it nearly impossible to keep Danks as well. Good point. Even in the short-term, it's a bad idea. If JR's remarks about cutting payroll next year are true, the Sox need to hang onto these guys. Even if payroll is "only" cut down to $90M next year, you're looking at $15M available to fill about 8 vacant positions, minus the significant raise that Danks will get. I could see maybe Morel for LaRoche, but I wouldn't give up much more than that. And I wouldn't want Fielder in the long-term either. People with his physique tend to not fare well as they approach 30.

QUOTE (justBLAZE @ Jun 24, 2010 -> 09:04 AM) Oz just said that platooning Beckham and Vizquel at second is now a becoming a possibility. Viciedo playing well could only help that decision - cst_sox Beckham could face platoon at 2B. .199 batting ave. 1BB in 29 games, too many K's says Guillen - MGonzales Viciedo needs to be the freaking starting lineup before it's deemed whether or not he could play well. How about we do that first, Oz?

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 24, 2010 -> 07:57 AM) There's just no way we can possibly put Mark Teahen at 2B. It would be like putting Dye back at SS, or Brian Daubach in CF. I'm no Lillibridge fan, but I would much rather go with him and suffer a bit with the OPS than see Teahen there again. I have witnessed enough of his OF and 2B play to say "please, Oh God, no" and surely Bell/Cora/Guillen should be smart enough as former infielders not to disgrace the diamond with this ill-fated Royals idea again. Yeah, Teahen has 3 starts at 2B in his ML career. That's not going to work, even if he were physically capable of playing the position competently. I'd rather platoon Teahen and Jones at DH, where Teahen would get all of the starts against RHP (meaning that he'd be starting about 4 days a week). Teahen could occasionally spell Vizquel at 3B. Lillibridge/Vizquel at 2B/3B is (sadly) not much of an offensive drop-off from Beckham/Vizquel. Of course, that would mean that Ozzie's man-love Kotsay would be the odd man out. So it's probably not going to happen.

QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Jun 23, 2010 -> 10:11 PM) Big point in the bold, I think the potential ressurection of Carlos Quentin is the most exciting thing I've seen recently other than obviously the wins and pitching. We're going to need something like that continue if this team is going to be a legitimiate contender. I said this a million times back in March, and will say it again: The Sox's offensive production will be HEAVILY dependent on Quentin. If CQ puts up an .850 or higher OPS from here on out, we're back in business.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 23, 2010 -> 09:49 PM) I should add the shocking move of the century.... KW trades for Fukudome and Soriano and makes the biggest gamble in the history of GM-ing, getting the Cubs to take on the contracts of Linebrink and Teahen. Soriano is installed as the new leadoff hitter/2B, with Quentin moving to DH, Fukudome in RF and Pierre moved down to the 9th spot. JR would never allow the Sox to take on those contracts. But we can all dream...

Viciedo needs to get into the startling lineup on a semi-regular basis. If he's not starting at least 3-4 days a week, being here is detrimental to his development. And as much as I hate to say it, I'll take Vizquel/Lillibridge at 2B over Beckham for the next couple of weeks. Especially if this team continues to win games.

QUOTE (Special K @ Jun 23, 2010 -> 09:10 PM) Fact is, a week ago we all thought the same thing about Quentin and look where he is right now. Except for the fact that Quentin is significantly older than Beckham, he has a lot more major-league experience than Beckham, and was nearly the league MVP two years ago. Even when Quentin was struggling, he was still managing extra-base hits. Beckham has a freaking .254 SLG right now. No, they didn't. Maybe Beckham will start hitting the ball soon, and maybe he won't. But using Quentin as evidence that Beckham will suddenly morph back into July 2009 form doesn't make any sense. I'd much rather have Teahen in the lineup right now than Beckham, even if that means DHing him to let Vizquel and Viciedo play 3B. Beckham is 2007 Andy Gonzalez-bad and needs to go down to Charlotte to find his swing.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jun 23, 2010 -> 12:38 PM) I was thinking about this, and I agreed before... but I will add a caveat. If the plan was to have him up here for just a couple weeks until Teahen's return... then I am OK with him playing sparingly. Because if that's the case, then really they just wanted to get a small look at him, to see what they have, in person. And a couple weeks of missed AB's, in exchange for getting some exposure to the big club, is not so awful. On the other hand, if he spends the rest of the season (or even just more than the couple weeks or so) with the big club, sitting on the bench... then I'll be pissed. I agree with this.

The Sox need to fill several roles next year (1B, DH, C, #5 SP, closer, two middle relievers, utility IF, utility OF), will need to give Danks a raise and, according to JR, will likely have to budget all of this with a reduced payroll (I'd guess $90M max). Even if they wanted to, there's no way that they could afford to give AJ arbitration. Even letting him walk as a FA and resigning him in the 2/8 range would be a waste of money. As much as I like what AJ brings to this team (I completely agree that his handling of pitchers and intangibles are underrated), it's time for him to go. Flowers won't handle the staff nearly as well and he'll probably struggle at the plate, but Kenny can't put off the growing pains forever.

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Jun 23, 2010 -> 12:59 PM) I usually don't agree with you much on stuff, but you have been pretty much money on this whole issue today. Thank you.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 23, 2010 -> 12:27 PM) And if we're not able to spend much money next year...dealing Hudson right now is crazy Flowers as well. Which is why I believe that somebody like LaRoche is the best that Kenny will do at the deadline (if anything).

KHP, I agree that the Sox need somebody else at 3B. We can agree to disagree on everything else. I've had enough of your childish prose and personal attacks.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jun 23, 2010 -> 12:32 PM) The Sox have gotten ridiculously lucky with how well Garcia has pitched this year. "Coop fixed him!"

Beckham needs to work with a different hitting instructor. He's not getting anything out of Walker.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jun 23, 2010 -> 12:03 PM) So beyond the awful dribble being posted by KHP and WC back and forth, who are we going to add? Well, KW has been after AGON, Berkman and Fielder in the past. I would say Mil and Hou are the most likely sellers. Dunn isnt going to be traded so it leaves us with those two options. Hudson is most likely gone for anyway as well as at least one other real solid prospect. With the signing of Sale, the org probably thinks it can get away with mortgaging a future arm. My guess is that KW is speaking with Milwaukee about fatFielder. Fielder will most likely cost a top prospect, and Kenny is unlikely to part with Hudson or Flowers. Not sure that I'd even want Berkman, either. LaRoche might be the most realistic option, though he's hardly an impact player. QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 23, 2010 -> 12:05 PM) Viciedo needs to play 5 of every seven games or it's worthless ruining his progress up here. Agreed.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 23, 2010 -> 11:47 AM) As far as Teahen, I have to back Kenny on this one. You can roll out different stats, but just watching Teahen, he is one of the worst third basemen in modern history. He is horrific at third. And he's not a good outfielder by any means. Royals fans were thrilled he left town. But why argue. This is one of these eye test arguments. Kenny obviously is sick of the thought of seeing Teahen play another game here, just like many of you couldn't stand the thought of Wise being on the team. I think many of us would be fine if Teahen was a utility guy the next 10 years for us. Play once a week max. WC Sox has presented some good stats how Teahen was actually OK compared to other guys' performances. But in the final analysis many just puke at the thought of Teahen. I've said it before, but I'll reiterate: I agree that the Sox need to find a better defensive option at 3B.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Jun 23, 2010 -> 10:27 AM) I don't understand you because you don't make any sense. Apparently your excessive anger is impairing your ability to think clearly. Wise was good defensively, but had no business hitting leadoff. I could've tolerated him as a one-year #9, though. Nix did absolutely nothing to justify his spot on the roster. He can't get on base regularly and he can't field. Yes, because throwing the ball into the visitor's dugout and extending a single into a double is MUCH more favorable than Teahen's bad hands. Brilliant analysis! He's never "on" and he's absolutely sucked for the past year and a half. Again, he does NOTHING for this team. Teahen at least gets on base. Do you understand why this is a terrible comparison now? Wrong. Vizquel would be much better at 2B. Hell, Nix and Lillibridge might even be better options. Beckham is a liability in the lineup and he needs to work with a different hitting instructor in the minors. Jesus Christ, dude, Jones and Teahen are THIRD and FOURTH, respectively, on this team in OPS. Think about that for a minute. You're looking at Teahen's numbers and ability in a bubble, and completely disregarding the lack of offensive talent around him right now. Getting rid of your fourth-best hitter because hitters 5-9 aren't as "good" as you were lead to believe is a retarded way to run a baseball team. Uh, yeah, everyone's arguing just that, rather than the fact that the Sox have been beating up on horrible NL teams. Or that Peavy, Floyd, and Jenks have been pitching a lot better over that time. Please stop with the straw-grasping. Coming from somebody like you, I'll take that as a compliment.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Jun 23, 2010 -> 07:36 AM) 1. You said Teahen wouldn't be a UT player because he's paid like a starter. I refuted that by asking why, if that's the case, do we have a LR who is paid like an elite setup man? Just because a player's salary keeps him on the 25-man roster doesn't mean he's going to occupy a major role. Apparently you didn't understand me the first time, so I'll try again: Teahen can do something reasonably well (get on base) and there is a dire lack of that skill set on the current roster. Linebrink has had NO value whatsoever on this team for the past year and a half. They're stuck with him, and hide him in the mop-up role to limit the damage that he does to this team. Linebrink's contract also means that he's unmovable, so the best that you can hope for is that he gets his act together at some point. A .340 OBP is decent and, sadly, significantly above-average on this roster. Your excessive use of profanity also really helps to bolster your argument. Your relentless trashing of Teahen's defense and simultaneous propping up of Nix The Butcher's shows excessive hyperbole and bias on your part. I agree that Teahen shouldn't be playing 3B but, at the very least, his OF UZR numbers don't corroborate your off-the-wall analysis. Don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing that Teahen is a good player. I'm arguing that he's "good enough" to play on this roster, and will be "good enough" to round out a 2011 team that will have to replace PK, AJ, Jenks, and Putz with a diminished payroll. I'm sorry that you have some personal vendetta against Teahen, but he's practically a lock to be in the starting lineup next year. Deal with it.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Jun 22, 2010 -> 10:01 PM) And how can you say that on a night when our $5M mop-up guy damn near made a blowout interesting. So you're comparing Teahen to a relief pitcher who's posted a freaking 1.60 WHIP over the past year and a half? GMAFB. Why don't you just go ahead and compare him to Lillibridge or Andy Gonzalez while you're at it. Teahen had a .340 OBP and was fourth on the team in OPS when he got hurt. Unlike Linebrink, he's actually halfway decent at something. Until he hits like Jayson Nix or Kenny builds a Yankees-like lineup, Teahen isn't going to be a utility player. Agreed that the contract extension was a bad idea. Again, I fail to see how Quentin is that much better defensively than Teahen. But if you're adamantly against this, I wouldn't have a problem with him playing 1B. Neither Wise nor Nix could hit for crap, and offense is exactly what the Sox need right now. Nix was an error machine on the left side of the infield, so I don't know why you're celebrating his "versatility." Teahen is not a "league average" 3B. He's average-to-below-average offensively and below-average defensively, making him an overall below-average player. Like Pierre, he's a stop-gap until something better comes up through the farm system or free agency. While his contract is not a good one, it's not precluding Kenny from making any moves. And as I have said here numerous times, Teahen isn't the reason that the Sox needed to go on a tear against bad NL teams to eclipse .500. If you're looking to be angry at somebody, there are players making a lot more than Teahen who are playing a lot worse.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jun 22, 2010 -> 09:27 PM) Atleast we should get more Dayan now with Omar moving to SS for the time being. Yep. If Viciedo is up here, he should be in the lineup 3-4 days a week. Maybe I missed something, but I don't understand why Kenny didn't wait until Teahen came back from the DL before DFAing Nix. As bad as Nix is, he's still a lot better than Lillibridge.

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jun 22, 2010 -> 09:43 PM) Adam Dunn should be the #1 target for Kenny Williams. He's an absolutely perfect fit. I've wanted him on the Sox for a while. Yep, it'd be nice to have him at DH for the next 3-4 years. I just hope that Kenny will have enough financial flexibility to outbid the other teams.

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Jun 22, 2010 -> 09:37 PM) I actually like him used more than just utility, but I think he should play less 3B and more DH with his bat, though I don't know about Quentin too. (mostly cause his defense in RF hasn't been very good also) I like Teahen, and think he gets a bad rap at times... reminds me of the Swisher hate actually. Teahen at DH isn't a terrible idea, but the problem with that is that DH is probably the easiest position to fill via free agency. And the Sox have the added problem of Quentin being made of glass. If Viciedo is able to play 3B competently (and I have no idea if he can), moving Teahen to 1B might be an option.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Jun 22, 2010 -> 09:17 PM) Yes he is, if we have better players. He may be on the team because of his salary but that doesn't mean he has to be on the field. The Sox are not going to have a $4.5M utility player on their roster next year. Especially one year after Kenny gave him a very generous contract extension. If he isn't an every-day player, he'll get dealt. I fail to see how Teahen is a massive defensive downgrade from Quentin. Moving Quentin to DH may even be a necessity, out of financial and health reasons. And the Sox FO has a long history of not caring what you or I think. I don't get the Teahen hatred. He's obviously a below-average player, but he's versatile, he's a left-handed bat with some gap power, and his OPS is decent enough to hit in the bottom third of most lineups. He isn't Dewayne Wise, Josh Fields, or Jayson Nix. Kenny obviously intends to use him as a "bridge" to the next generation of outfielders (D2 and whoever else makes it up). He's not going anywhere any time soon. The best that we can hope for is that Teahen is 7th or 8th on the team in OPS next year, instead of 4th.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Jun 22, 2010 -> 08:34 PM) Need I explain? Jesus Christ. The Royals already tried that. Mark Teahen is a s***ty outfielder too. And why the f*** would anyone expect - much less HOPE - for Mark Teahen to be in any of our future outfields? Have some f***ing expectations why don't you. Teahen is owed $10M over the next two years, so he's not riding the pine. It's also unlikely that somebody trades for him, so I'd suggest that you get used to him being on the roster. By the way, dropping the f- and s-bomb in every other sentence and acting like a cantankerous 12-year-old doesn't help prove your point.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Jun 22, 2010 -> 08:24 PM) Dude... ???