WCSox

We're a good two months from realistically conceding. While it's very difficult to be optimistic about this team right now, a lot can happen over that time.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 21, 2010 -> 06:54 PM) Crawford is the closest....but God knows what we would have had to give up, not as much as A-Gon, but then it's the same issue....keeping him in the fold long-term. Might have been worth it though, at this point it might be a moot point anyway. I would've over-paid for Damon, rather than give up Hudson or Flowers/Danks for Crawford. It's too bad that the Sox don't appear to have an in-house solution to the lead-off spot for the foreseeable future. They'll probably have to over-pay for a veteran, as Kenny did to solve the CF situation last summer.

QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Apr 21, 2010 -> 12:42 PM) it could be he was in a HR friendly park and he was overswinging and couldn't get it out of his head, then when he went to a bigger park that's harder to hit HRs in he took a simpler approach Given that Swisher is a mental midget, this is definitely a possibility.

Is Jones really any more brittle than Thome? If not, I don't see the problem with DHing him 4 days a week.

QUOTE (justBLAZE @ Apr 21, 2010 -> 02:50 PM) I think it is really messed up how Pierre was brought in to solve the leadoff problem yet the problem isn't solved at all. Agreed, but I don't know of any other cheap corner OFs with a .350+ OBP who were available this winter.

QUOTE (WHITESOXRANDY @ Apr 21, 2010 -> 11:18 AM) Agreed. That's why I'd go with: Beckham Rios Quentin Konerko Teahen Jones Ramirez A.J. Pierre I think this lineup would score a lot more runs. Shuffling the lineup will make a marginal difference at best. The Sox won't begin scoring "a lot more runs" until the latter three in your lineup start hitting.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Apr 21, 2010 -> 11:00 AM) How does Beckham lose a ton of RBI opportunities if he's moved up 1 spot in the lineup (Rios on the other hand might lose a few)? It's the same guys hitting in front of him, the only difference is he'll have no one on in front of him in the first inning as opposed to the 20% he's gotten thus far this year. Last year our top 2 #2 hitters (Alexei and Gordon) knocked in someone other than themselves only 4 times in the first inning. Sorry, he'll lose *some* RBI opportunities. And you're right that he'll have no one in front of him in the first inning... just as he has very few people on base when he's up now. So I don't see what moving Beckham to leadoff accomplishes. It seems to me that temporarily moving a hotter, low SLG bat to leadoff (like, say, Teahen) would be the better option. That logic may not apply when your manager wants to play a National League-style game.

Pierre is definitely a #9 hitter and would be better off there. However, I don't see a clear better option, even in the short-term. I don't want Beckham or Rios to have to re-adjust their approach to hit leadoff, and then lose a ton of RBI opportunities as well. AJ and Alexei are both hitting like crap now, so they're not viable short-term options. It might make sense to flip-flop Pierre and Teahen while Pierre works out of his slump. But, again, that's only a temporary solution. At this point, I'd just let Pierre work his way out of his slump. If he eventually puts up his career OBP, he'll be a below-average-but-semi-viable leadoff hitter.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 21, 2010 -> 06:28 AM) Exactly. People need to make the realization that if we ride Andruw like a starter, the odds look pretty good that his body will break down and we will have Kotsay full time. Ozzie has to make the choice between playing Jones 4 to 5 days a week tops to try to make him last the season, or starting him all of the time until the wheels fall off and you see Kotsay play as long as it takes. Also realize that once Jones gets injured, even when he comes back, he doesn't seem to maintain his form using recent seasons as a guide. One has to find a middle-ground here. When Jones is hot at the plate, I'd give him those four days a week of playing time but would DH him in three of those four days to mitigate the stress on his body. When he cools off, I'd limit him to 2-3 starts a week. Unfortunately, that puts the majority of the backup OF duties on Kotsay, which of course puts Kotsay in the lineup. Hopefully Rios and Pierre can carry the load, because CQ will need more days off than the average outfielder.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Apr 20, 2010 -> 05:07 PM) Fluke or not, pretty much everyone on this board felt that way after 2007 too, and the Sox won the division in 2008. He may have to make major changes, but I don't know that you'd call it rebuilding. Unfortunately, the current Sox squad lacks the level of veteran talent that they had in 2008 (that team was freaking loaded and should've won 90 games easily). And they'll have even less of it this winter. I have my doubts about the sustainability of Kenny's "retool on the fly" strategy. I wonder if it may just be better in the long run to sell off aging vets for prospects and start over. I know that Kenny isn't a fan of the latter strategy, and don't expect him implement it any time soon. But I don't see how an emphasis on trading minor-league talent for veteran talent (versus more emphasis on drafting and player development) is sustainable over the long run. It's nice to be able to dupe a GM into trading a Freddy Garcia or Gavin Floyd for overrated minor-league talent. But that isn't a reliable strategy. Eventually, you run out of good prospects to fill holes and you end up either taking on bad contracts (Rios) or running mediocre players like Pods and Teahen out there. If the Sox fail to put a competitive product on the field between now and next July, Kenny may have to consider a firesale.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 20, 2010 -> 01:26 PM) I think he is down to two years of arb left. My thinking is that if he feels he can't get something done with John long term, which Danks has repeatedly turned down if you believe the reports, and we fall out of the race, there might not be a piece that gets a bigger haul than Danks. If Kenny wants to rebuild on the fly, a guy like Johnny being traded could do it. If the Sox aren't competitive this or next year, I get the feeling that Kenny's hand will be forced to do some major rebuilding. Many of our current productive players will be gone at that point (Mark, PK, AJ, Thornton, etc.) and it doesn't look like our current crop of prospects is going to replace that level of talent (Hudson and Flowers notwithstanding).

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 20, 2010 -> 01:02 PM) Danks might actually be the first SP dealt because he is the only one without a long term contract plus a high value. Agreed. I get the feeling that he wants to test the market when he hits FA, anyway.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 20, 2010 -> 11:51 AM) KW would have to resign after trading MB. He didn't have to resign after his public feud with Frank, or after he replaced Frank with Thome. Ron Schueler didn't have to resign after letting Robin Ventura walk either.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Apr 20, 2010 -> 11:15 AM) But Swisher did hit, he hit really well, as most people expected him to coming out of his abnormal BABIP season of 2008. I don't think you should write off good performance based on low expectations. I could understand using the argument that his numbers ere enhanced due to the strength of the lineup around him, except last year was not a fluke year for him. It’s fit perfectly into his historical trends. The only outlier on that list? 2008. The fact that Ozzie and Swish didn't get along most likely contributed to it as well. I remember reading rumors about some of the veteran clubhouse guys not appreciating Swisher's lack of maturity either. People who aren't happy at their place of employment tend to not produce as well as those in their own ideal environments. Throw in a guaranteed big-bucks contract, and Swish likely felt little incentive to work hard. Especially when he could get a paid change of scenery by sulking on the bench.

QUOTE (striker @ Apr 19, 2010 -> 10:55 AM) Our entire team is batting .218 and you think all we need is one big bat? I think 9 little bats would help. Yeah, no kidding. The problem is that guys like Pierre, Alexei, and AJ are hitting way below their career averages. Not the presence of Jones and Kotsay in the lineup. This offense would be equally bad with Thome at DH.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 20, 2010 -> 09:32 AM) HUH? You're saying he will get $160-240 million dollars on the free market? I think there's a possibility that AGon gets less than $100M. Bay only got $66M from the Mets. And since the Yankees won't be in play (with Tex at 1B for years to come), that'll help drive his price down somewhat. That said, I'd be surprised if AGon didn't get $100M+ and would be shocked if he signed for less than $80M.

QUOTE (daggins @ Apr 20, 2010 -> 08:31 AM) The way the FA market formed this off season and last, I wouldn't be surprised if Paulie has to settle for 2/10 or even a 1 year deal. It would be silly to give him that much money (3/20). I think that 3/15 is more likely, as it'll probably be the last $10M+ deal he'll get. My overarching point is that the Sox WILL need to replace his production. And there's nobody in-house right now who will be able to do that. Frankly, giving PK 3 years at $15-20M sounds a lot better than giving up the entire top tier of the farm system for AGon and then getting into a bidding war when he hits FA.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Apr 19, 2010 -> 06:39 PM) You want much more than a "semi-safe bet for 2 years of an .800 OPS" out of a 1Bman. You want .825 to be a bad season for your 1Bman, and you want to be able to expect .900+ rather easily. PK would move to DH. And the last time that I checked, we don't have a better option there. I don't think that 3/20 is a bad deal for a veteran DH and clubhouse leader who can occasionally play 1B and who routinely posts an .830 OPS. That's not an "emotional attachment." It's filling a need. Or would you rather re-sign Andruw Jones or Kotsay? Or throw Jordan Danks in there and see how he does? If you think that the Sox offense sucks now, just wait until PK's gone. We'll struggle to score 3 runs a game and Quentin will lead the league in walks.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Apr 19, 2010 -> 09:55 AM) It's somewhat fair. I don't want him back for 3 more years, the salary amount makes sense. Yeah, it would just be kind of rude to not offer him three years, especially after the extension that JD got. I think that he's a semi-safe bet for two more .800+ OPS years, and then who knows.

QUOTE (chisoxfan09 @ Apr 19, 2010 -> 08:54 AM) If Freddie fails then we need the insurance that Hudson can possibly provide. The importance in keeping Hudson has more to do with Buehrle and Danks than Freddy. Two years from now the top three in the rotation might be Peavy, Floyd, Hudson. Berkman will be cheaper to sign as a FA, but he's already 34. If the Sox were to sign him, it'd be for the short-term.

QUOTE (ozzfest @ Apr 18, 2010 -> 06:50 PM) Fact or Fiction: *Beckham hits over 290 on the season Fiction. He's still developing. But I still think that he'll post a .280 and a .350 OBP. Fiction. The offense and a slow start will limit him to 13 wins. Fiction. I think that he's dealt in late July and that Putz moves into the closer role. He'll have more value at the deadline than he will in the off-season, and if the Sox want to get something out of him, they'll need to pull the trigger before August. Fact. His BA is down, but his power is clearly still there. Fact. Nobody wants to pick up his salary and DFAing one of Peavy's buddies is probably not a good idea. Fact. The Sox want Hudson to develop in the minors and want to push back his arb-eligible timetable as far as possible. But he WILL take over the #5 spot after the ASB. Fiction. There's no point in giving up top prospects for a rent-a-player when you're struggling to play .500 ball. LOL, no way.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Apr 18, 2010 -> 09:45 PM) Gonzalez is 28 years old, not exactly a declining product at this point, he's also one of the better hitters in all of baseball. Bringing him in implies that this organization intends to build towards the future with him as their centerpeice. It's not a move for the sake of a move, it's a move to improve the team. AGon is going to command $80M+ when he hits free agency (probably $100M or more). When was the last time that the Sox committed even $70M to one player? Realistically, he wouldn't be anything more than a year-and-a-half rental. I also don't understand how trading for AGon involves "build[ing] towards the future" when it would require the Sox to give up guys like Hudson and Flowers. Such a move would obviously make the Sox much stronger at one position, but would weaken them at others down the line.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 18, 2010 -> 01:01 PM) Prior to Gavin's bombing today, Our starters' ERA was 4.09. Middle of the pack in the AL. I imagine there's a pretty large standard deviation in that number. Peavy's first two outings were bad, especially for a Cy Young winner who is supposed to be carrying this squad. ERAs of right now are... Peavy: 6.00 Buehrle: 3.00 Floyd: 9.00 Danks: 1.38 Garcia: 8.10 Small sample size and all, but not any smaller than the one applied to Alexei, Pierre, Kotsay, etc.

QUOTE (PlaySumFnJurny @ Apr 18, 2010 -> 12:31 PM) We are a s***ty, last place team, with a s***ty, last place offense. We lost a lot of production when we let Thome and Dye walk (still the right calls), but did NOTHING to replace it. Sadly, we didn't lose that much production when we let JD walk. He's done. As crappy as this offense has been at times, the starting pitching (which was supposed to be the strength of this team) has been incredibly bad at times as well.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 18, 2010 -> 06:27 AM) This is pretty good news for Hudson fans. If you have your starts being skipped 3 turns into the season, it doesn't bode well for being around much longer. Freddy actually looked good his first start, but then was pounded just like spring training. Chances are he doesn't pitch much more for the Sox than he did last season. Agreed that Freddy won't last the season in Chicago, but I don't see Hudson coming up until June at the earliest. The Sox are sucking for reasons that extend way beyond Freddy, and there's little point in pushing up Hudson's arb-eligible timetable when his presence on the team won't really translate into more wins.