WCSox

QUOTE (Disco72 @ Jun 13, 2009 -> 06:22 AM) Are people sure they want the Sox to unload these veterans? A "youth" movement sounds appealing, but it'll look a lot like last night's game - meager offense, the young guys struggling, a weaker bullpen.... I'm willing to bet KW trades 1-2 guys at most if the Sox are out of it. The Sox need a mix of young and old next season to be competitive. This season, he's trying to figure out who the "keepers" are - both young and old. Agreed, and I imagine that Kenny would hit the FA market this winter, rather than going with a full "youth movement."

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jun 12, 2009 -> 11:36 PM) To be completely fair, Mike Cameron would have looked pretty damn good in CF over the past 10-13 years. I'm glad the Sox got Paulie, and he helped the Sox win a Series (which Cameron still has never done), but Cameron has been a much more valuable player over his entire career. Cameron's two full seasons in Chicago were busts offensively, and then he suddenly morphed into a consistent 20-30 HR hitter in Seattle. Coincidentally, he also tested positive for PEDs twice. I would've loved to have a Gold Glove-caliber CF who could hit 20-30 HRs over 10-13 years, but I'd want him to do it the right way.

QUOTE (WHITESOXRANDY @ Jun 13, 2009 -> 02:14 AM) Definitely trade Dotel and Jenks. Keep Dye. Contreras and Thome would bring nothing. Thome is a still-productive future HOF left bat. If he'll agree to waive his NTC, he'll definitely bring something in return. Same goes for Dye if Kenny is willing to eat a portion of their salaries.

This PED-using douche needs to STFU. Seriously, how can you test positive TWICE for using a banned substance and mouth off like this? This cheating asshat should be thankful that he's still allowed to play in the majors.

QUOTE (beck72 @ Jun 12, 2009 -> 10:55 AM) I agree the division is bad. But making the playoffs is still making the playoffs. And I have a hard time seeing the sox pull the plug on a team that can win the division. Esp. if no other team makes a surge before Aug. Agreed, especially after the White Flag trade. That said, I see Kenny pulling the plug if the Sox don't pull closer to first place by the deadline. Especially if the offense doesn't pick up between now and then.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 12, 2009 -> 11:03 AM) If Ozzie treats Beckham poorly or mishandles him than I think you'll start to hear grumblings of a firing. Right now I think everything about Kenny and Ozzie disagreeing is being blown way out of proportion but that might change a month from now when significant changes are made and Danks and others are up and Poreda is in the rotation (probably in replacement of Count). There does seem to be a fundamental difference in Ozzie and Kenny's ideas of who should be on the 25-man roster. We got a hint of this with Anderson back in the summer of '06, but it seems to have become even more pronounced. It'll be interesting to see if they can work this out, or if Kenny will decide to replace him.

Love how he replies to the comments as well. Thanks for posting.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 12, 2009 -> 09:21 AM) Considering Alexei has the better defensive skill-set, it probably should be Beckham that switches positions. Alexei has more range and the stronger arm and he also has very good hands. In the limited amount I've seen Beckham he too has good hands but his arm and range wouldn't be above average for a shortstop while Ramirez is. Now if the Sox can't find a Cfer and deem it best to have Beckham at SS and Alexei in CF than I might understand but if we have someone able to play CF and plan on starting both Beck and Alexei in the IF, than Alexei should be the one playing SS every time. I agree with this. QUOTE (BearSox @ Jun 12, 2009 -> 09:11 AM) From what I look for in a SS is not only someone who makes great plays, but is a leader on the field. So far Alexei hasn't shown the later. A lot of it probably has to do with him speaking a different language then everyone else, but there's been an overall lack of communication between the infielders and infielders, and the infielders with the outfielders. I believe it's the short stop's job to direct traffic and make the call. Too many times we've seen a ball bloop just between the 2B, SS, and CF. Too many times we've had missed communications out there. Think whatever you want of Jeter's D at SS, he's a great leader on the field. Communication between fielders is something that can be solved pretty easily, so I'm not buying this as a valid reason for removing Alexei from SS.

QUOTE (BearSox @ Jun 12, 2009 -> 09:06 AM) I have a question... If Quentin didn't break his hand last year, would people still think he's injury prone? Given his injury history in Arizona, I'd say probably.

QUOTE (BearSox @ Jun 12, 2009 -> 09:02 AM) I want to see more consistency out of him. He has a couple of games where he goes 6 for 12, and then he has a couple more games where he looks foolish. And on D, he could be elite or close to it, but he makes a lot of boneheaded plays. I love Alexei, have been his biggest backer for the past 2 years, but I'm not gonna be like "Oh joy, he's had a solid month, he's awesome!" No reason not to let him start for the rest of the season, but if he doesn't improve his consistency and overall play, I'm saying it might not be a terrible idea to go with Beckham at SS and see how he handles it. The problem isn't Alexei's play at SS, it's his bat (which appears to be coming around). I don't mind playing Beckham, but I don't see a need to remove Alexei from SS.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 12, 2009 -> 08:18 AM) IF there's a firesale, unless the Sox are trading Jenks or Thornton, I really don't see how they are going to get top prospects, and with Dotel a soon to be FA, I don't know if I would want KW to trade away and weaken a strength just to acquire guys you can't be sure will do as well. Dotel is in his mid-30's and has a history of arm problems. My feeling is that he won't repeat last year's performance (especially considering how poor he pitched down the stretch), and that it's best to sell him high now. I'd love to deal Linebrink instead, but no GM is going to touch his bum shoulder at that price. I'd rather build around younger guys like Jenks and Thornton (and hope that Linebrink's shoulder is manageable for another year).

QUOTE (Whitewashed in '05 @ Jun 12, 2009 -> 08:22 AM) If teams don't want to give up anything worthwhile for an impact bat like Dye's then I'd rather get the draft picks and see if the sox can make a run in the process of keeping their players. Kenny would obviously have to eat some of Dye's salary to get something in return. Given his history of drafting, I'd like to see him go this route instead. PK doesn't have 40-HR power anymore and is almost a lock to suffer a nagging injury that kills his production, so I don't think that KW would get much of value for him. IMO, Dye and Thome are the only tradeable hitters who will command a solid prospect.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 12, 2009 -> 06:31 AM) There is zero chance Vazquez would be having the same kind of year here. He is a mental midget. After the ass-kicking Ozzie gave him at the end of last year, he would have had a horrible year here, because he would have been too tight to be able to function. I don't know about that. I'm sure that Vazquez has gotten many tongue-lashings over the years that the media never heard about. To be fair, Javy won quite a few low-pressure regular-season games for the Sox. He'd be more of an asset at the back of the rotation than the current merry-go-round of crap that occupies the #4 and #5 spots. That said, I'm glad that Kenny dealt him. His performance didn't come close to matching his salary... and he got Flowers in return.

QUOTE (beck72 @ Jun 12, 2009 -> 05:19 AM) The sox shouldn't be trading away players this year. The Detroit series showed the sox can compete with the "best" of the AL Central. The sox weren't overmatched at all, and lost the three games by 1 run each. I'd say that losing 3 out of 5 and being 28-33 in a bad division says a lot more about the makeup of this team than "only losing the three games by 1 run each." The bottom line is that the Sox aren't that good this year, and won't be competitive in the playoffs if they're lucky enough to make it there. If the Sox are back up at .500 three or four weeks from now, I'd like to see Kenny stand pat. But if they fall back further or if Detroit really surges ahead, Kenny needs to put out feelers for Dye, Dotel, and possibly AJ as well (I'm assuming that their NTCs make Paulie and Thome un-tradeable at this point).

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jun 11, 2009 -> 08:09 AM) Thome was, at one time not that long ago, a good defensive 1B. Not to mention that he broke into the league as a 3B. It's almost impossible to imagine him playing that position now.

QUOTE (klaus kinski @ Jun 11, 2009 -> 07:38 AM) I think that Williams has learned from 2006 & 2007 with veterans, and the improvement in 2008 with Quentin Danks Floyd etc that giving the young players a chance is not necessarily punting the season. We will see guys like Allen sooner than we think Although Kenny will never go for a "The Kids Can Play"-type campaign, it's exactly what he needs to do. Hopefully he'll supplement them with FA signings this winter.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jun 11, 2009 -> 05:57 AM) Paulie is done for the year IMO. This was the injury that killed him last year and I think he will fight the same issues this year. He wont be able to turn on the inside pitch which will kill his production. Awesome. I can't wait to see what this team will look like when I make it out there next month.

QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Jun 10, 2009 -> 04:51 PM) Man, you guys are talking about counting on a lot of rookies next year, and that's never been Ozzie or KW's MO. Can we really have an outfield with Allen and Danks next year? Plus Beckham and Fields, or Beckham and Getz. Sounds like a bad year, maybe in the right direction, but a bad year. At this point, the Sox are pretty much in need of a "growing pains" year or two. If Kenny wants to contend for the "tallest midget" title (AL Central champ) one last time, that's fine. But it'll be time to develop young players again in 2010. And if that means losing Thome, Dye, or even Paulie this winter to make room, so be it. We're not going to win again with the core of this lineup.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 10, 2009 -> 03:48 PM) Here's something for KW to ponder: does he go ahead with the idea of Quentin as our franchise DH starting next year and fill in LF and RF if Dye/Thome leave? That could open up a spot for a leadoff hitter. Quentin's going to have to stay healthy for a full season before Kenny can consider him a franchise player.

QUOTE (santo=dorf @ Jun 10, 2009 -> 03:36 PM) It's a 50% pay raise and he would have possibly been the 11th highest (Bernie williams is 10th at $12.7 million) paid AL player behind 4 Yankees and 2 Red Sox and notable flops Juan Gonzalez and Albert Belle. Percent pay raises are dependent on when the previous contract was given, so they're meaningless when negotiating sports contracts. Plus, Thome had obviously picked up his game a notch in 2001 and 2002, as evidenced by his HR numbers. He was hitting at the level of Manny and not far from the level of Bonds at that point, so why should he accept $8 million a year less than those guys? Following that logic, Thome should've just stayed for the league minimum for a veteran, right? It's not like he didn't already have millions in the bank. Sorry, it doesn't work that way. When players have market values in the $90 million range, you're talking about generational money. I can't fault a guy for taking an extra $30 million, because I sure as hell would've... for my children and grandchildren's sake. But I'm sure that Thome got the hint that he was no longer wanted in Cleveland when he was offered $20-30 million below his market value. Commitment is a two-way street, and Mark Shapiro's bulls*** offer clearly shows that he wasn't committed to Thome.

QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Jun 9, 2009 -> 09:20 PM) I wouldn't be surprised at all if Dye is kept around for a couple more years as a DH I would. If they need a DH, they'd be more likely to move Paulie to that spot (everyone in the organization loves him), or give a one- or two-year deal to Thome because they want a left-handed bat. Plus, Dye is the only one of the three without a severely-restricting NTC, so he'd be the only one that they'd be able to deal. I love me some JD, but he's most likely the odd man out.

QUOTE (santo=dorf @ Jun 10, 2009 -> 02:33 PM) in 2002 Jim Thome was making $8 million. The Indians offered him 5 years, $60 million and apparently Philly ripped his jersey off by offering him $95 million over 6 years. http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/20...me-offers_x.htm $60 million over 5 years for a guy coming off of 49 and 52 HR seasons, who served as a cornerstone for a franchise that won two pennants, and was still in his prime was well below market value back then. (Manny made $20 million in 2003, and Sosa made $16 million.) I wouldn't call it a slap in the face, but it seems obvious to me that the Indians intentionally low-balled him to get him off the books (and to insult him slightly, so that he would definitely not re-sign)... but offered him just enough to make him look like the bad guy when another team inevitably swept in with a better offer.

QUOTE (santo=dorf @ Jun 10, 2009 -> 02:26 PM) just curious, if Maggs was healthy and coming off a typical Sox season back in 2004 and said they would have "rip the Sox jersey off his back" and would later pass up a great deal from the Sox to take a more lucrative offer from another team, wouldn't fans be pretty pissed off? How about if he was then traded to a division rival three years later? My recollection may be incorrect, but I don't believe that the Indians offered Thome a "great" deal or anything close to it.

I can't imagine how some of the people here would've reacted to the mid and late '80s. Those years really put things in perspective for me.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jun 10, 2009 -> 06:06 AM) Unless he finds the fountain of youth and plays here for another 10 years... he's an Indian in the HOF. Zero question about it, despite that we'd like it to be otherwise (and that the CLE fans' behavior shows they don't deserve it). Indeed. I read an interview with Thome about a month ago where he went on and on about how special a place Cleveland was, what a special group of players they had there, how exciting it was to win two pennants there, etc. I don't think that a couple hundred meatheads booing him will overshadow the positive memories that he has there.