WCSox

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ May 24, 2009 -> 08:54 PM) It's amazing how many ignorant people can get a job and type with some semblence of authority. No kidding. I love these lines... Yeah, Ozzie has a really difficult time getting along with veterans who didn't come up through the Sox organization, as evidenced by Jim Thome, Freddy Garcia, Jermaine Dye, A.J. Pierzynski, and Ken Griffey, Jr. They all hate Ozzie. And the Sox are really paying for dealing young "talent" like Miguel Olivo, Jeremy Reed, Brandon McCarthy, and Gio Gonzalez for proven veteran talent. Good job with the research there, junior. Right, the pennant race. Because the same organizations that tried to trade for Peavy and failed this past winter - and already spent their money elsewhere - are now going to pick up Peavy's $22 million option IN ADDITION to the $50-some million he's contractually owed - in the middle of a really bad recession, where the vast majority of GMs are hesitant to spend. Gotcha. And Peavy is apparently refusing to play in the AL, cutting the list of possible suitors in half. And the only team that he's actually shown interest in playing for is in bankruptcy court and can't pick up his contract. Yeah, I'm sure that Peavy will be joining that pennant race in no time. It's much more likely that Peavy will sit in his brand new home in sunny San Diego for the remainder of the year and wait for a better situation to open up this winter. This quote was also entertaining... I'll give him that the Sox appear to be in bad shape this year, but how are the Padres and Sox on the same level as an organization? The Padres lost 99 games last year and are looking to shed payroll. Their market is also dominated by two much better franchises who have actually won championships. "Equally horrifying," my ass. The Padres are a third-tier organization. I actually agree with this guy's assessment that the Sox are not the ideal situation for Peavy. But his reasoning is completely retarded.

QUOTE (greg775 @ May 24, 2009 -> 06:31 PM) Don't we have enough pitchers for mop up duty already? We need some more real pitchers. I agree, but Jake Peavy wasn't willing to play. Hopefully Oswalt will be on the block this summer.

QUOTE (BearSox @ May 24, 2009 -> 02:22 PM) If that were the case, why wouldn't Peavy just say to Towers that he's not willing to waive his NTC to any AL team? He very well may have, but the Padres front office most likely would've kept that information quiet. Announcing that info would cut out half of Towers' market, and decreased his bargaining leverage.

QUOTE (BearSox @ May 24, 2009 -> 01:57 PM) I highly doubt a trade was completed and we didn't hear about it. Now a days, especially with a team as big as the Yankees, you hear about everything. Is it possible that Peavy told Towers that he's not waiving his NTC to go to the Yankees, before he and Cashman could agree to terms? That would be fine, but they also brought in Burnett. Why would you rather have Burnett than Peavy, who is better AND costs less? And it's not like it took an arm and a leg for Towers to agree to terms with Kenny. Poreda, Richard, and 2 PTBNL is a nice package, but not an overwhelming one. I'm sure that the Cashman could've provided a similar package.

QUOTE (BearSox @ May 24, 2009 -> 01:45 PM) I don't believe the Yankees and Padres ever came to terms on a trade for Peavy. Or maybe Peavy blocked the trade and we never heard about it. If it were all about money, I'm sure that the Yankees - who spent over $200 million on two FA starters this winter - would've picked up his option year. If this were only about money, Peavy would no longer be a Padre. Peavy is obviously being uber-selective about where he goes. I haven't seen him express interest in any team outside of the Cubs.

QUOTE (BearSox @ May 24, 2009 -> 01:29 PM) Pretty hard to sign with a team when you're not a free agent. Given that Peavy has a NTC, he has to "sign off" on the deal to make it happen. Are you saying that Cashman would've rather paid Sabathia $160 million (or paid Burnett $82 million) than traded a couple of prospects to the Padres for Peavy and the $70 million or so that he was left on his deal at the time? At the very least, I'd take Peavy over Burnett in a heartbeat.

QUOTE (BearSox @ May 24, 2009 -> 01:19 PM) Money out weighs everything. If that were completely true, Peavy probably would've signed with the Yankees this winter.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ May 24, 2009 -> 01:01 PM) He also rejected a trade to Atlanta. So much for AL/NL That's not what I heard. IIRC, the two teams never came to terms on a deal... Peavy's own freaking agent has said that he "strongly prefers" going to an NL team, and has been saying this since November. And Peavy threw in two ridiculous contractual demands to purposely kill a done deal with an AL team less than a week ago. What other evidence do you need that Peavy doesn't want to pitch in the AL?

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ May 24, 2009 -> 04:09 AM) Bedard will most definitley be dealt, but with Richard starting to come together as an established 4/5 type starter, I would love for KW to go hard after Roy Oswalt. The Astros are struggling bad in a tough division and seem to be going nowhere fast. Roy Oswalt would be that perfect ace to our rotation. His contract run through 2011. Its not quite as sexy as Peavy but it would be a damn good pick up. . . I agree. Oswalt on the South Side would be bad-ass, and his contract would probably be a better fit this team's closing window of opportunity. Not sure I'd be willing to deal Richard AND Poreda, though. I'd still like to keep one of those two as long-term back-of-the-rotation types.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ May 24, 2009 -> 12:54 AM) I can almost guarantee the reason he did not accept a trade to Chicago is because of money, and it has nothing to do with AL/NL. This is pure conjecture on your part. Peavy reportedly refused trades to the Red Sox and Angels last season. Peavy also reportedly wanted this unprecedented yearly opt-out clause added to his reworked deal with the Sox. And his agent is on record saying that Peavy "strongly prefers" to play for an NL team. It sounds to me like he has no interest in pitching in the AL.

QUOTE (shipps @ May 24, 2009 -> 05:48 AM) No that is really bad in my book. Unless he is dominating down there he doesnt come back up. Methinks that he gets moved to the 'pen for mop-up duty instead.

Since Peavy obviously doesn't want to play in the AL and his NTC means that he's holding all of the cards in the negotiations, that would be a no.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ May 22, 2009 -> 05:16 PM) Even Javy Vazquez waived his NTC to come, and he extended with us here. He also signed his first big deal with the Yankees and I'm sure would have accepted a deal to Boston. He didn't want to go the Angels because of distance from his family, but you could in no way say Javy didn't want to it. He was a guy who would have mental lapses and insist on throwing his #3 and #4 pitches in situations where he should've trusted his best stuff, but at least he wanted to win. I'd still love Peavy's arm in our rotation, but the fact that Javy Vazquez is more confident in himself than Jake Peavy is - well that's pretty scary. The only reason I got excited about this deal is because usually pitchers with his stuff and his track record do not become available at his age. It would be a big gamble, but I think the hope would be that he'd sack up and believe in himself, and believe that he could pitch just as well in a tougher stadium in a tougher league. I just don't understand how someone can win a Cy Young in any league and in any park without being the type of person that seeks out new challenges and rises to the occaision. Peavy really seems to be an enigma. I can understand him pushing the envelope with the guaranteed option year and the out clauses. That's just business. But being THAT hesitant to pitch in the American League makes me seriously question his testitcular fortitude.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ May 22, 2009 -> 04:46 PM) I believe his NTC is 14 clubs... hmm, there are 14 AL teams, coincidence? I believe he doesn't care about winning because he has to be about the only player in a baseball who would 1) veto an already completed trade to go to the AL Central team that won it's division the previous year and is despite their record still a contender this year, 2) deny the possibility of a trade to the best overall team in the AL West for the last several years, a team which has also won it's last division, 3) not consider the possibility of a trade to the two biggest powerhouses and perennial contenders in baseball, the Yanks and Red Sox. If you deny a trade to 4 teams that have all made the playoffs multiple times since you've been a Padre, and 3 of those teams won their divisions last year, and 3 of them have World titles since 2002, and each of those 4 teams generally top their divisions in payroll, and you do all of this in order to stay on a horrible NL team in a pitcher's park, then winning probably isn't the motivation here. I agree with this. If what we're hearing about Peavy wanting that $22 million option guaranteed and perennial out clauses in a deal with the Sox, STRONGLY preferring an NL team, and rejecting trades to the Red Sox, Yankees, and Angels, then he indeed does seem to care a lot more about his stats and paycheck than winning. And that's pretty sad.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 22, 2009 -> 08:49 AM) You can't always sweep teams even when you want to. Especially when your offense is under-performing and 60% of your starting rotation sucks nuts. I'll be happy with 2/3.

QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ May 22, 2009 -> 10:54 AM) Yeah, I think Gammons comments yesterday about how he basicall told the Pads last year he wouldn't even really consider the Angels, NYY or Red Sox kind of points to that too. That's pretty weak. Seriously, who wouldn't want to pitch for a perennial contender like the Red Sox, Yankees, or Angels? If he's really that reluctant to pitch in the AL, you've got to wonder what kind of competitor he is. This could be Javy Vazquez all over again.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 22, 2009 -> 09:48 AM) If he ever agrees to go to the Sox, he'll have to drop those demands. The only thing I think there's flexibility on is a broader NTC in a couple years and maybe re-working that option year to a guarantee worth far less money. He does have 3 small kids and just built a new house so maybe he does need a week or so to sit on it. The only thing is he did say he would play for the Cubs so I don't know why he would have a problem with the other side of town. This bothers me even more than his stupid contractual demands. If you're afraid to pitch in the AL, you're not a gamer. You've got to wonder if he's just a more-talented Javy Vazquez.

QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ May 22, 2009 -> 09:17 AM) No, if only for that outrageous 2013 option. Think about it logically -- is he worth that amount right now? Now, imagine four years past, when you'd expect a natural regression in his abilities due to health issues. His delivery is violent. It'll only get worse. He'll, I'd guess by 2011 we'd begin regretting the deal. We were regretting the Contreras deal in 2007 and the Vazquez extension last season. Yet, it didn't cripple our ability to spend money and compete. I can understand why people don't want to pick up Peavy's contract, but we're also dumping an absolute ton of payroll over the next year and a half. And outside of Poreda, I don't see any really good starting pitching prospects in our minor league system. If Floyd contiues to experience problems, we're going to be relying on Broadway and Richard to anchor the back of the rotation for the next couple of years. Therefore, I would be inclined to take a chance on Peavy, provided that he's tradeable in 2012 and 2013. Edit: I didn't read about Peavy's yearly opt-out demands when I posted this. There's no way that I include that in a contract.

I wouldn't give him a full NTC throughout the entire contract. That's crazy. I'd be willing to guarantee the option year, but would re-work the deal to give him a limited NTC in 2012 and 2013. If a guaranteed $22 million in 2013 isn't enough for him to compromise on the NTC, he can play somewhere else.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ May 21, 2009 -> 04:05 PM) Maybe for Peavy but I don't think it looks bad to the Sox. If I were them I'd spin it as saying we tried and got closer than the Yanks/Red Sox/Angels did (although they didn't have deals in place) and to me thats a f***ing compliment. A big compliment. I'm once again very proud of our organization. They went out of there f***ing way to put together a massive deal and we clearly are one of the big players (maybe not in the FA market) but on the trade front every season and history shows under this leadership group that ballsy things might just happen. Its why I've always backed KW, despite at times ripping into him for being too cocky at times (but that cockiness also makes him good). I thought that this may have been some sort of publicity stunt this morning, which would've made Kenny and the rest of the front office look awful. But if Peavy did indeed reject the trade, as is being reported, then kudos to Kenny for making the effort to land an ace.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ May 21, 2009 -> 03:14 PM) Because he is scared to pitch in the AL, thus making him a p**** regardless of his location. He could have gone to Anaheim, but the AL made him have night terrors. I'm not going to get into the name-calling, but this AL-phobia suggests that he cares more about his numbers than winning. Not sure I'd want a guy like that on my team.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ May 21, 2009 -> 03:02 PM) And bashing the Sox and slurping the Cubs. Guess what people, the Cubs are in a worse position than us to win over the next 5 years, their roster is old, overpaid and they have ZERO farm talent. The Cubs can't win in October even when they DO have the talent. QUOTE (daa84 @ May 21, 2009 -> 03:05 PM) i will say that someone has to take some blame for designing a ballpark that has driven pitchers away from our team I call BS on this statement. Peavy didn't come here because of money... period. If they would've guaranteed the last year, he'd be in a Sox uni. Think about it: if he was willing to almost complete a deal to the Cubs this past winter, he obviously didn't care about the tendency of the wind to turn Wrigley into a video game-like batting practice session. I agree with this. I probably would've pulled the trigger, since the back of our rotation sucks and will be gone next year, and because I'm losing faith in Floyd. But it isn't my money, and I understand.

QUOTE (Pants Rowland @ May 21, 2009 -> 12:51 PM) Not as bad, but didn't Angels tar and feather Sox in 2001 to the tune of 18 or 19 to Love? Wasn't it 2002, the year that they won the WS? I seem to remember listening to that game in my car.

QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ May 21, 2009 -> 12:46 PM) 20-0 I can't remember a beat-down this bad since the Rangers game in early 1998.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 21, 2009 -> 11:51 AM) As someone who thinks the White Sox have been very cheap this season, and knowing if Peavy is outstanding for 3 1/2 years in Chicago that $22 million would be fair, to just guarantee it now is not smart. What if he gets hurt? What if he turns into Barry Zito? Stranger things have happened. If it were a hitter, that's one thing, but JR has been correct on his 3 year contracts for pitchers. He's extended to 4 recently with a couple of guys, but if they keep doing it, they will get burned, and $22 million would be a horrific burn. FWIW, the Sox took a $40 million gamble on Contreras, who was already in his mid-30s at the time and whose arm had been downright abused. He didn't pan out (consistently) over that time, but he didn't exactly cripple a team that had a ton of money committed elsewhere. It's not my money, but I'd say it's worth the gamble, given how bad the back of our rotation is and the possibility that Floyd may never pitch like he did in 2008 again.