Lillian

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 20, 2013 -> 11:14 AM) Obviously it can't just be the handedness of the batter, look at Pierzynski and De Aza, they did decent but they're not going up nearly as much as the others are going down. Highly doubtful Markakis is available. By all accounts the Orioles ownership just loves him. Of course, I'm sure they'd happily give him up for Sale, but even if Viciedo for Markakis was a good swap for both teams, I doubt their ownership would allow it. He's in the same mode as Brian Roberts was, where they wouldn't trade him for the longest time...except now they actually made the playoffs last year, so they have even less reason to move him. I agree that it isn't merely a matter of from which side of the plate the "Tiger slayer" hits. However, wouldn't you agree that the Sox need another left handed, middle of the order hitter? Doesn't it also make sense that he should be someone who has demonstrated success against the Tiger's right handed starters?

The single biggest reason that the Sox didn't win the division last year was that they couldn't beat the Tigers in head to head competition. The Tigers have improved over last season, and have the same pitching staff. The following stats (AVG. OBP SLG) reflect the 2012 performance of Sox hitters, including those added and subtracted from last year's roster A. de Aza .224 .286 .362 Alex Rios .206 .254 .349 P Konerko .294 .329 .471 Pierzynski .267 .279 .433 D. Viciedo .260 .302 .460 A. Dunn .216 .255 .451 Ramirez .227 .250 .318 K.Youklis .115 .194 .328 Beckham .205 .340 .455 Keppinger .158 .200 .316 It's pretty obvious that the Sox can't hit Tiger pitching. I wonder if it's at least in part because all of Detroit's starters are right handed. As you're probably tired of hearing me say; the Sox continue to lack a middle of the order left handed bat, . I'd suggest that we all focus our speculation about roster changes on the task of acquiring another left handed bat, for the middle of the order, preferably one who has a history of hitting Tiger pitching. More importantly, I hope that is what R. Hahn is doing. He has stated several times, that acquiring an impact left handed bat is one of his highest priorities. I still think that the Sox should be trying to trade for someone like Markakis. Here are his stats vs. the Tigers, for the last 2 years: 2012 .385 .448 .654 2011 .343 .385 .486 Here's what Kubel did in 2011, his last year in the AL: .239 .364 .391 It doesn't appear that he's the answer. Someone, please suggest a feasible trade to acquire a "Tiger Slayer".

All of this discussion regarding Dunn batting 3RD can be settled by simply comparing our #3 and the Tiger's #3. Maybe the best place for Dunn is 3RD, but that just demonstrates how much better their lineup is. Dunn is no Miguel Cabrera.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 8, 2013 -> 08:12 PM) That's all fine and good, but trading Viciedo and Floyd isn't going be enough to get it done. It probably has to be one of those Nick Swisher trades multi-player trades where you're including someone like Trayce Thompson and probably Jones or Reed as well. Of course, it depends on which player we're targeting, but with the Viciedo example, it would be LF. How many Top 3-5/true impact corner outfielders hit LH and are on the the market now? And would any of them be close to affordable for the Sox? That had to be the prime consideration with passing on Josh Hamilton, the risk/price tag. But if this LH hitter is in years 1-3, no team will trade him for less than a king's ransom, years 4-6 he becomes a lot more expensive and you're taking a huge risk of losing him before you get a full return on investment. For the White Sox, it has to be someone like a Cespedes, where they're not giving up talent or a draft pick, but rolling the dice with their international scouting. Who knows who, and how this will be accomplished, but I just can't believe that Hahn is going to let this team take the field without fulfilling his stated objective of acquiring a left handed bat, for the middle of the order. My only point was that it's premature to compare the Sox and Tiger lineups, because it is highly unlikely that you are looking at the final roster. If Hahn is unable to find that bat, I agree that the Sox have very little chance of competing with Detroit. I have said, all along, that Dunn cannot bat 3RD, and cannot be the only impact left handed bat on this team.

It will be very surprising if Hahn does not acquire a left handed, middle of the order bat. He is not going to let this team go into the season with Dunn as the only "impact" left handed bat, as previously discussed. I don't know who that hitter will replace, but I suspect that it might be Viciedo. If he acquires a decent LH hitter to bat 3RD, and moves Dunn down to 5TH or 6TH. the lineup could be pretty productive. To me the biggest wild card is still Beckham. If he were to finally realize his potential and again show the promise that he demonstrated his rookie year, the Sox could be among the top offenses in baseball. I know we've all been disappointed in Gordon for the last 3 years, but I think this might finally be the point where he figures it out. Imagine our offense with him putting up a line something like .285 35 doubles, 20 HR and a .350 OBP. If that were to happen, and the Sox found a good left handed hitter to bat 3RD, I don't think it would matter much how Flowers hits.

All of those statistics merely give me a headache. I'm sorry, but I just can't wrap my mind around the virtue of having a guy who hits .200 and strikes out at least 200 times a season, batting 3RD. That is sure a far cry from Miguel Cabrera. Perhaps I'm completely off base, but intuitively, it just doesn't sound right to me.

I assume that Hahn is better focused on what needs to be done, than many on this board. His objective must be to not only acquire another LH hitter, but to get one who can hit in the middle of the order. If the Sox have to bat Dunn 3RD or 4TH, they are not going to be able to compete with that Tiger lineup. The Sox simply cannot have a guy with a .200 average and over 200 strike outs in the middle of their order, unless it's 5TH, and he follows some pretty good hitters, including at least one who bats from the left side. Is there anyone here who disagrees with that?

QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Dec 30, 2012 -> 11:39 AM) A Kubel/Viciedo platoon could be intriguing if it only means giving up say Thornton and some mid level prospects.. Anything more than that? No thanks. Thank you, and I agree.

Kubel only makes sense if he is platooned with someone like Viciedo. He's not that good versus LHP. The important qualification is the ability to hit 3RD vs RHP. That has to be the number one objective, because Adam Dunn, and his .200 batting average, cannot bat 3RD or 4TH. Kubel isn't the strike out machine that Dunn is, and his OBP is respectable versus RHP. He would represent an improvement, but I'd rather see Ethier or Markakis. Of course, those guys may not be obtainable. If the Sox can get Kubel without giving up a piece of the present starting roster, I guess he'd do.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Dec 22, 2012 -> 05:59 PM) You really like the idea of putting players in left that have never played the position before No, I don't like it, but I really didn't check to see if LaRoche had ever played the outfield. I'm just "grasping at straws", that's all. I guess hearing suggestions like obtaining Kubel for LF, made me panic. I'm getting pretty pessimistic about this team finding that middle of the order, left handed bat. You've all read that I'm dead set against Dunn batting any lower than 5TH, and he just may be back in the three hole this season. What a disaster?

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Dec 22, 2012 -> 05:03 PM) To fill that huge hole the Sox have at 1b-DH? I was thinking maybe he could play LF. I know that he's a gold glove first baseman, but have no idea if he could play LF.

Has anyone talked about acquiring Adam LaRoche? http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/nation...m-adam-laroche/

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Dec 22, 2012 -> 11:03 AM) Pathetic. Why is everybody in a hurry to trade Rios? At this point, he's our best player and his contract is fair to good. I agree entirely, and have been saying so ever since he abandoned that awful batting stance, and started playing up to his potential.

Markakis is the only Oriole who profiles as the kind of left handed hitter, for whom I think Hahn is searching. He's a similar hitter to Ethier, but a better defender. He would fill the need for a middle of the order, left handed bat, with a high OBP. I'd like to see a trade of Floyd and Viciedo for Markakis and a top right handed pitching prospect.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 18, 2012 -> 12:12 PM) Andre Ethier is supposedly available. The problem with him is for every positive there is a negative, although he probably would be pretty productive for a few years. As I said a couple of weeks ago, he's the guy I want. He kills right handed pitching, and he's not a one dimensional player. He gives you high average and OBP, plays good defense, and most importantly, he is that left handed bat that could be the number 3 hitter. I just can't accept Dunn in that spot. As it stands now, the 6, 7, 8 and 9 hitters are all coming of a season in which they had a sub .300 OBP vs. RHP. That is not going to cut it, and Dunn's .211 average in the middle of the order, even against RHP, doesn't help, despite all of the homers. The line up actually looks pretty good against lefties, but that is over shadowed by the lower half of the line up vs. righties, which is what you face most of the time. I wonder how much better Ethier's home run production would be at the Cell.

QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Dec 13, 2012 -> 01:02 PM) So you think Trumbo is just going to ride the bench now??? They may as well trade him for some pitching....like Gavin Floyd. EDIT: I suppose they could trade Bourjos instead, and rock a Trumbo-Trout-Hamilton OF. I'll simply repeat that the Sox are looking for a LH bat for the middle of the order. Trumbo is not left handed.

QUOTE (Lemon_44 @ Dec 12, 2012 -> 04:48 AM) I read where Philly talked about trading Dominic Brown for Alfonso Soriano. I'd take Brown on the Sox. I've been saying Brown +, for Rios. Brown is a great prospect, but not ready to be inserted in the middle of the lineup. Could we all please agree that the candidate must fit the profile of a middle of the order, left handed bat? I'm pretty sure that is what Hahn wants, and that is easy to understand. He probably doesn't want to see Dunn batting anywhere lower than 5TH or 6TH. If the Sox have to hit Dunn 3RD again, they are not going to be very good. Assuming Viciedo is traded for this "mystery" player, and A. J. is not brought back, the lineup should look like this: de Aza Keppinger "Mystery" LH Bat Konerko Dunn Rios "Blah, Blah, Blah," whatever Brown is no where near ready to bat 3RD. I'd love for it to be Hamilton, but I'd settle for someone like Eithier, or the just traded Choo.

QUOTE (mataipaepae @ Dec 9, 2012 -> 10:32 AM) Because there are no 3rd baseman on the open market to throw the money at. It has to be through a trade. So, exactly who is this stud third baseman for whom the Sox could trade de Aza, once having thrown all of that money at Bourn? Would he be another high priced player? If so, wouldn't it be better to just spend the combined salaries for Bourn and this "mystery" player, on Hamilton instead, and just keep the low cost de Aza? I'm sorry, but I don't quite see how this is going to solve the problems of acquiring an impact left handed bat, and a third baseman.

QUOTE (mataipaepae @ Dec 9, 2012 -> 09:59 AM) Y You guys need to stop looking at it as a a bourn de aza thing. We would be getting a similar centerfielder/leadoff while using our current one to possibly upgrade 3rd base. which does improve the team. Plus hopefully it is only another year our two until walker is ready to take over centerfield/leadoff. Perhaps, but why tie up that kind of money in a player, when the team already has his position covered, at a far more attractive contract? If it's a third baseman that you are ultimately seeking, why not just put the money there?

The only thing Bourn does better than de Aza is steal bases. He is probably a better center fielder, with more range, but doesn't de Aza have a better arm? Even so, that is not a significant upgrade, especially for the money. The Sox better put that money to better use, like another right handed starter, and a left handed power bat with a high OBP. Doesn't Hamilton make a lot more sense at $25 Million than Bourn at $16 Million?

QUOTE (justBLAZE @ Dec 7, 2012 -> 08:44 PM) Upton Rios Dunn Konerko as 3-4-5-6 in whatever order is great middle of the pack, assuming Rios and Dunn hit like they did last year. You are still ignoring that fact that such a lineup is missing the other left handed hitter. Do you really feel comfortable with Dunn as the only one? I don't. Please suggest a left handed hitter who could hit 3RD, followed by Konerko at clean up, then Dunn 5TH and Rios 6TH. How about someone like Eithier, who is really good vs. RHP, and would not require as many players in the trade? Apparently, the Dodgers are eager to unload that contract. Wouldn't you be happy trading Thornton and Floyd to the Dodgers for Eithier, with some salary relief?

QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Dec 7, 2012 -> 08:01 PM) This isn't directed at you, but what makes Upton THAT great? The youth and room to grow that comes with it? I can understand that but right now he is far from superstar material. Based on his stats he seems like a really nice player, but worth selling a bunch of pieces for? We have some good major league outfielders and some really good minor league ones. If we are putting together a stellar package, why is Upton the best target? I thought the same thing. Moreover, Upton is another right handed hitter. I hate to have to keep reminding everyone of the need for a left handed hitter, but that is not only my opinion, it seems to be shared by Hahn.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 6, 2012 -> 05:43 AM) Wouldn't mind a LH hitter, but I'll take am Upton over the supposed balance any day. I would rather have a good righty than a mediocre lefty just for balance. I agree with entirely. I would also "rather have a good righty than a mediocre left". However, what this team needs is a really good left handed hitter, for the middle of the order!! Adam Dunn shouldn't bat any higher than 5TH.

QUOTE (justBLAZE @ Dec 5, 2012 -> 08:24 PM) In reference to this post... Someone I follow on twitter said Heyman was on MLB Networks and said: White Sox tossing around "pie in the sky" ideas. "somebody that they've loved for 5 years" Also he just tossed Justin Upton's name into the White Sox possibility bin. Don't know if that's based on anything but he said it. Can anyone vouch? How does Upton solve the problem of having a lineup that is too right handed? That contract will be expensive in 2014 and 2015, at over $14 million per year. Then you still don't have a true center fielder. De Aza wants to be moved to LF, and probably should be. He'd be a nice piece, but would you really want to give up a lot to get him?

The fact that Hannahan is a left handed hitter is irrelevant. He does not provide an impact bat, therefore it doesn't matter from which side of the plate he hits. His only value would be his defense, and the depth he provides, especially if the Sox are going to try to give Morel another chance to prove that he's healthy.