Lillian

QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Apr 18, 2012 -> 05:13 AM) I keep seeing posts recommending benching this guy, and calling up that guy, and platooning these guys. I'm as frustrated as the next guy with the way this team is hitting (or not hitting). But platooning Morel and McPherson or Dunn and Lillibridge or Fat Guy #1 and Skinny Guy #3 is not going to happen. Morel should be given a chance but lower in the lineup. Beckham might need a AAA stint. Dunn needs to just start hitting the damn ball, I don't care if it's mental or physical or spiritual. He's gotta get his s*** together. Someone else mentioned that benching the likes of Rios and Dunn does nothing, and I agree. There is absolutely zero chance anyone will trade for either of them if they spend 50% of their time warming a corner of the bench. There will at least be a slight chance if they play most of the time and actually start hitting the ball a bit. I'm officially concerned about this season now, and I think that's only because I had higher hopes than a lot of people. But I keep telling myself that it's been 10 games. 152 more to go. I just hope in a month we're not saying the same things about the hitting on this team. Because by then it will most likely be very concerning. I expected some people to argue that Dunn and Rios have to play full time to ever have any trade value. Unfortunately, I don't think they will become tradable, under any realistic scenario. We might as well accept that we're stuck with them. However, do we really need to suffer the worst of consequences over that fact?

OK, that's it. I've had it!!! I don't care whether they decide to "play to win", or concentrate on developing the youth. Whatever!!!! Just please don't make us watch Dunn against left handed pitching, in the middle of the order yet! It's just too painful. Please sit his ass down on the bench, and then do something about the rest of the useless half of the lineup. Seriously, Morel needs to be given a chance to succeed. Let him hit vs. LHP, and be a late inning defensive replacement. Bring up McPherson, and let him play 3B versus all RHP. He's been averaging well over 40 homers per 162 games, versus RHP at AAA for the last several years he's played. Bring up Jackson, and let him platoon with Dunn. He can't possibly be worse vs. LHP, and might even become the terrific hitter he was before his illness. Platoon Lillibridge with de Aza in CF. De Aza is over exposed when he plays vs. LHP, and Brent kills lefties. It's such an obvious move. Moreover, Lillibridge has earned a chance to at least play against lefties, after how he busted his rear end last season. Platoon Fududome with Rios in RF, and hit him second. He gets on base a lot, and we desparately need that. Rios has to held accountable for his lack of production. Start with the platoon, and if he doesn't perform when he plays vs. LHP, just bench him. Enough already!!! And finally, send Beckham to Charlotte, and give Kuhn a shot. People forget that Tyler was almost as dominant a hitter in college as Beckham. He just didn't demonstrate the same power, but at least he had a phenomenal average in the Big East Conference, where he hit .424 his last year. He didn't seem to take long to adjust to the wooden bat, hitting .375 that summer at Great Falls. He's exactly Beckham's age, and has proven that he can hit Minor League pitching. I'd like to see what he could do against Big League pitching. The other plus for Kuhn is that he bats left handed. I think we've seen enough of what Gordon can do at this level, at least until he changes something. Charlotte is a better place to be experimenting. If Gordon can't even put up numbers down there, he's really in trouble. Send down Escobar, along with Beckham and Stewart in order to make room for Jackson, McPherson and Kuhn.

Dunn 0 for 14 with 8 strike outs vs. LHP, and counting!!!!

I thought maybe some of you might find this old article on McPherson interesting: http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/artic...s#disqus_thread Nothing new, just a reminder of his unfulfilled promise

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 17, 2012 -> 04:59 PM) Every kid could just read the Ted Williams/Charlie Lau books. Every golfer could read Tiger Woods/Golf Digest swing mechanics books, etc. Approach is ONE thing, but Gordon Beckham changing his basic swing is just not going to happen, any more than it is with Rios or Dunn. You'll see variations, little things like timing devices with the foot or the bat position, but nothing so huge. For example, Austin Jackson had his front foot in the air too much and the simple adjustment of quieting that down has totally changed him as a hitter from last season. Gordon Beckham could live 24 hours per day with Paul Konerko and it might actually make him worse. For example, if any hitter tried to copy Roberto Clemente or Frank Thomas, they would be cut by their high school team in about 2-3 weeks. There have been some very talented hitters, over the years, who really didn't have the best approach, but hit, in spite of it. Perhaps, they would have been even better, if they had better mechanics. There are also some things that take place in the batter's box, before the pitch is delivered, that are unorthodox, but don't affect the hitters final swing. Nevertheless, there are certain important elements to a sound approach that a hitter should be following, and I don't see Beckham executing those very well. His lead foot is in the air too long, and his hitch is too exaggerated, and very late. When I watch him hit, my impression is that he has no chance. I felt the same way last year, watching Rios' horrible mechanics.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 17, 2012 -> 04:36 PM) Like 2k5 said...Beckham probably has 36 different voices telling him things to do to fix his approach every week. Mimicking another player is usually not going to work for a guy anyway. I agree with you. He shouldn't listen to "36 different voices". He should listen to the one guy around this organization who has the best fundamental approach. Paulie, Paulie, Paulie!!!!

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 17, 2012 -> 04:27 PM) According to Beckham, he spends a ton of time with Konerko and they have gone over things like that. If that's the case, then apparently Gordon isn't a very good "student". His approach is nothing like Paulie's, and it's just plain bad!!!

I wasn't thinking specifically of the teams I mentioned, but rather suggesting some team with the money, and the need for help in the rotation, due to an injury, or lack of depth. If you guys are right, then that reinforces my feeling that the Sox should try to "play to win" while they have that rotation. I'm back to my original idea of trying to find some offense to replace at least a couple of the many holes in this lineup. Having one or two weak hitters is acceptable, if they're playing great defense, especially in the infield, but not half of the lineup hitting like they did last season, and are starting out this year the same.

It baffles me that a guy like Beckham wouldn't go to a "professional hitter" like Konerko, who has such sound mechanics, and ask him for help. Then, if I were Gordon, I'd just scrap everything I was doing, and try to emmulate Paulie. I'd figure, "how could I go wrong with that approach?" Paulie is so fundamentally sound, in his approach. Why not?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 17, 2012 -> 04:11 PM) It's going to be really hard to get any prospects for Peavy even if he's pitching well. We might be able to move him, but it would almost certainly require the Sox taking up a large portion of that money 2k5 just referred to, and others have convinced me that it would really be unprecedented for the Sox to do that, even if they saved some on the deal. I can't think of an example as a precedent, but wouldn't a team like the Yankees, Red Sox or Angels shell out half a season's worth of salary, no matter how large, to acquire a starting pitcher for the chance to go to the Post Season, and then have a formidable rotation for the Playoffs? Of course, it all depends upon how well Peavy is pitching at the time.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 17, 2012 -> 04:01 PM) If you traded for Peavy at the halfway point of the season, you would be on the hook for something like $12.75 million for the rest of the season. Why not play to win, and if they're not competing by the All Star break, and Peavy has held up and pitched well, trade him for prospects then? That is probably K. W.'s plan.

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Apr 17, 2012 -> 12:20 PM) We have very few guys who are tradeable. Nobody is gonna take Dunn, Peavy or Rios at their salaries. We could probably find takers for PK, AJ, Crain and Thornton, but at most of their salaries we wouldn't get much in return, plus AJ and PK have full no trade clauses. The only one I could maybe see getting moved would be Floyd. I agree with your assessment of the tradability of all the players you listed, except Peavy. Why wouldn't a contender be willing to give up prospects and pay that salary? It's only one year, plus the buy out for the option on his final year. Isn't it the long term commitments that scare management?

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Apr 17, 2012 -> 11:23 AM) What Major League ready talent do we have to replace them with. Dallas McPherson, Conor Jackson, Dan Johnson? There's a reason that these guys have to fight to try and make a roster and can only get Minor League deals. The only one that has proven he can play at the Major League level is Jackson and he has big question marks with his health. They weren't counting on winning this year anyways so you might as well let Beckham and Morel play to develop for the future. I understand and don't disagree with that approach. However, shouldn't they then be trying to trade the veteran players, who could net them more prospects?

Some of you have brought up a very important question. Is this team interested in playing to win, or solely in developing their young talent? If they are playing to win now, and thus take advantage of the outstanding pitching they currently possess, then they need to insert a few legitimate Big League players into the lineup. If they are playing to develop the youngsters, then K. W. should immediately begin to try and unload all of the tradeable assets in the organization. The Angels would likely give up a couple of pretty good prospects for Thornton and Crain, as they desparately need bullpen help. There must be some team out there who could use a durable and serviceable, left handed hitting catcher. Peavy may be on the cusp of convincing, or should I say fooling, some GM into thinking that he could stay healthy all year, and help carry them to the post season. Even Paulie would be a trade candidate, unless the organization thought that there was a slim chance that the youngsters could be ready to make a run, by next season. Sox management will likely make a decision before the All Star break, but in the meantime, how much would it hurt to send a few youngsters to AAA, and try to replace them, temporarily with Major League ready talent. Of course, most of you know that I put Conor Jackson in that catagory, but he's not the only solution to some of the other holes in this lineup.

I think I'll add McPherson to the list of replacement candidates. Send Escobar and Stewart to Charlotte, and bring up both Jackson and McPherson. Dallas starts at 3B vs RHP. Morel is the starter vs LHP, and the defensive replacement, in the late innings. Jackson takes all of the LHP at bats from Dunn. If you think it's too early to give those at bats to Jackson, then bring up Dan Johnson, and give them to him. I know that he's left handed, but he's never seemed to have much of a problem hitting LHP. Some hitters are actually better against pitchers from the same side. It's only when a guy demonstrates that he can't hit either lefties or righties, that you need to make a change or platoon, as is the case with Dunn. Can you believe that he's 0 for 11 vs. lefties so far. Here we go again. I just can't watch Dunn giving away every bat versus LHP. Anyone can see, that he has no chance. The current offense simply can't be allowed to repeat last year's debacle. There is no reason to stubbornly stick to Rios, Beckham, Morel, and against LHP, Dunn.

QUOTE (fathom @ Apr 16, 2012 -> 10:14 PM) That this is a rebuilding year and it's more important to find out if Morel/Beckham are MLB caliber players an whether or not Dunn/Rios can get any type of trade value (long shot) or if they need to think of possible replacements for them in the future. You're probably right, but what a shame to waste their great pitching. Oops, maybe not so much, after tonight.

We are surely going to hear strong pleas to be patient and not to panic. However, given last year's disaster with Rios, Dunn, Beckham and Morel, you have to wonder how long this team can keep running those guys out there. What possible excuse and justification could they offer for not making some changes.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 16, 2012 -> 11:50 AM) By the way, I forgot to ask this yesterday...what site gives you LH/RH minor league split statistics? I've never found a site that gives historical Minor League splits. There are sources for the current season, but not past years. When I spoke of de Aza's great numbers versus RHP at Charlotte, it was from memory. I even remember posting his numbers in a thread, during the 2010 season. If anyone knows where to find previous seasons' split Minor League stats, please pass the information along.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 16, 2012 -> 10:39 AM) Okay, the odds of Jackson getting 200+ AB's are greater than Cowley winning the Pulitzer Prize. Well, I guess I now have a vested interest in Conor Jackson's career. He's going to be this year's "Alejandro de Aza" for me. De Aza is the last player whom I tauted on this site. I raved about him for almost two years, and everyone on this board, gave me such grief: "He's a 4TH outfielder", "A career Minor Leaguer," "He's a AAAA player". I was pretty thrilled when he finally showed everyone what he could do, last season. I'm hoping that you neighsayers will be eating crow over Conor Jackson, this season. "Come on, Coner"

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 16, 2012 -> 10:21 AM) I put the Escobar as full-time starter at 2B in the same category as Conor Jackson as the platoon partner for Dunn. Ouch. That hurt. LOL

QUOTE (greg775 @ Apr 15, 2012 -> 07:56 PM) It is amazing how slow he is. You bring up a great point. I wonder why there's not a Paulie shift that would have the third baseman and shortstop play several steps past the infield. He would not be able to beat out any "hits" that are a few steps into the outfield grass. Interesting Shhhhhhh!!!

QUOTE (Reddy @ Apr 16, 2012 -> 07:02 AM) Am I the only one who thinks this thread is insane after only 8 games and us winning FIVE of them!? we are 11th in the league in OPS. I'll grant you, we need to score more runs, but it's been EIGHT FRIGGIN GAMES! EDIT: by league, I do mean, all of MLB. I don't think that any of us are panicing. However, it is clear that the 2012 White Sox are not going to be one of the premiere offensive teams in the League. When you look at teams like the Rangers, Yankees and Tigers, it's not hard to understand why we would be searching for ways to improve the offense. That was the intent of this thread. It doesn't hurt to consider some changes, does it?

QUOTE (Cali @ Apr 16, 2012 -> 05:34 AM) I'm actually kinda serious. As we learned from the Marlins debacle, most MLB teams have more money then they're willing to disclose publicly. Obviously the Sox intend on paying Rios his $$$ for the rest of his contract. There's no doubt in my mind that the Sox could spare another 500K (or whatever league minimun is) to call up a Jordan Danks, or Tyler Kuhn etc. if they were to give Rios his release due to performance issues. You know a trade will net you nothing and you're gonna have to pay most of his salary anyway, just let him go if he continues to suck (haha, yeah, if...) I know I'm not at all an expert of MLB finances, but there has got to be a scenario where this is somewhat possible. The only thing keeping it from happening is either foolish pride on KW's part or just a blind faith that somehow Rios will become a productive major leaguer in a Sox uniform. I agree with you. However, if the objective is to clear a roster spot on the 25 man club, why couldn't they send him to Charlotte? Boy, that would really infuriate Rios. Who knows, maybe it would lite a fire under him. He is clearly an underachiever. If he played well at Charlotte, perhaps someone would want to take him off our hands. If the risk is that he would have to clear waivers, in order to go to AAA, so be it. If a team wanted to claim him off waivers, I'd be thrilled, and I suspect a lot of other Sox people would be, as well. Am I missing something here?

Another reason why the Sox could benefit from platooning a few guys is that there isn't a single switch hitter, with the exception of Escobar, and I don't expect him to be on the Big League club, once Jackson demonstrates that he's back.

I'm sorry, but I have to respectfully disagree about Jackson's strength, especially versus LHP. Yes it's true that he draws a lot of walks, but there is much more to his offensive game. If you examine his split stats versus LHP, for the years 2006, 2007 and 2008, when he was just 24 to 26 years old, you'll note that he not only had a terrific average and OBP, but he also hit a lot of doubles and even a few homers. Here are his stats vs LHP, in the last two of those years, projected over a 162 game season: 2007 36 2B 4 3B 17 HR 96 RBI .320 AVG .408 OBP .549 SLG .958 OPS 2008 46 2B 3 3B 11 HR 66 RBI .315 AVG .446 OBP .492 SLG .938 OPS The guy can clearly hit lefties!!! I suspect that he'd hit a few more home runs in our ballpark. He'll turn just 30 next month. He's still in his prime, and I see no reason to not expect him to get back to where he was, now that he's healthy. Wouldn't you take those numbers sandwiched between Konerko and Viciedo, versus lefties? I'd much prefer that to the hole in the lineup that Dunn represents vs. lefties.