Lillian

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 15, 2012 -> 08:42 PM) Even then, Charlotte isn't Chicago. Here's the problem with Jackson. Not that he put up a 660 OPS against LH pitching with well over 100 at-bats (0 homers) last year. It's that, even at his best, his #1 ability is walking to 1B. Which is probably Adam Dunn's best skill set against LHP as well. Who is going to drive either Dunn or Jackson in (let's say they're hitting 5th or 6th in the order) at the bottom of the line-up? That's why OPS can sometimes be misleading. A lot of Jackson's is OBP and less slugging...against LHP, we need the opposite, more power hitting and less base clogging. If we had consistent threats up and down the line-up, I might agree that Jackson would fit in better. But it's also been 4 years since he was a productive, everyday player. Stranger things have happened, sure, but the odds of Jackson being in Chicago in the first two months are about the same as Jake Peavy throwing 96 or 97 again. I wouldn't put much stock in any stats from Jackson, past the 2008 season. I would think that his production prior to 2009 would be much more indicative of his ability. The illness and injury pretty much rendered him useless the last 3 seasons.

Here is what K. W. had to say about the Conor Jackson signing: Williams: About the signing of Conor Jackson to a minor league contract today: "He was on a career trajectory that was seemingly … the ceiling was through the roof. He got valley fever. And from what I understand, it’s just a terrible thing to catch. He’s working his way back. He’s going to be working his way back in AAA."

I appreciate all of the thoughtful comments, as usual. I'm not normally a big fan of platooning players, but when you have combinations of inept hitters versus either left or right handed pitching, and there are capable replacements, why not? A hitter like Dunn is so bad versus LHP, and he has to bat in the middle of the order to be useful, in any case. A hitter like Conor Jackson, who completley dominated LHP when he was healthy, has to be seriously considered as a viable solution to the hole in the lineup that Dunn represents vs. LHP. I'm watching Jackson's daily progress at Charlotte, and hoping that he soon displays his ability to hit, especially vs. lefties.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 15, 2012 -> 08:01 PM) Theoretically, Flowers could be the RH half of a DH combo with Dunn. With how hot AJ's been going, he's the only one providing protection to Konerko in that line-up. It's definitely not coming from Rios. So the question is where Flowers is going to get AB's if we're going to give Lillibridge the AB's against LHPers (sitting Dunn). Until Jackson proves himself, and he hasn't really been healthy for a full season since 2008...they will look at Brent as the first option over Jackson and leave DeAza in CF to play everyday because of the lack of another decent leadoff hitter on this team. It could come down to who does Robin want to sit more against LHP, Dunn or DeAza? At any rate, there probably won't be any major changes (except for Morel's role in the 2 spot) for another 2-3 weeks. Then you're probably going to have to move Ramirez or AJ back to the 2nd spot at some point if Morel continues to struggle, with Viciedo moved up. But that doesn't leave Konerko with much protection against LHP behind him. What are Lillibridge's splits as the leadoff hitter again? I'd have to look them up. He only had 29 AB's last year in the lead-off spot. However, he has the speed and his OBP was .346 vs. LHP

I understand the skepticism versus Conor Jackson. However, you really need to consider the circumstances. That Valley Fever was completely debilitating. I suspect that K. W. acquired him with precisely the idea in mind of having him spell Dunn vs. LHP. It's hard to believe that he would want to take a chance on reliving the nightmare that was Dunn last season. A replacement vs. LHP is the minimum step that any rational observer would seek.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 15, 2012 -> 07:38 PM) Why? If we're basing thing entirely on this season's sample size, his splits against RHP and LHP are pretty much identical. Look at de Aza's splits from last year, and his Minor League play. He is adequate vs. LHP, but not nearly as good as he is vs. RHP, which is where Lillibridge really excels.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 15, 2012 -> 07:13 PM) The main question I would ask is, what is the purpose of this season? Is it to compete for the AL Central or develop for future years down the road? By your decision to not bench Morel and/or Beckham, it seems you have the "we have to find out if these guys can play everyday and be part of the future" idea in mind. On the other hand, can you really "fix" the rest of the offense with 3 platoons if Beckham and Morel put up OPS numbers in the 500's? Based on spring training, Dunn was able to handle left-handed pitching quite well. But if you went by 2010 and the first week of 2011 alone, you would certainly be justified looking at him as a platoon candidate. It just doesn't seem like the kind of decision Ventura is going to make from just 10 or 11 at-bats in the first week of the season, especially since Holland and Harrison are two of the better lefties in the game and Dunn had never seen Wilk before Saturday. I'm also guessing this means you're going to send Escobar down OR Jones/Stewart, yes? Perhaps we can get away with making Nathan Jones the long man, but from the first two times out, this doesn't seem to be what Ventura is looking for out of him... If Lillibridge is splitting time with DeAza, then you're REALLY thin at back-up infield...of course, you could always move Brent from CF to one of the infield positions, but that takes away some of your flexibility. And the players that Escobar and Lillibridge would normally pinch run for are not the players they would replace on the infield (Morel, Ramirez, Beckham). Then you have the economics of the situation. The fact that Dunn and Rios are each owed roughly $40-45 million, and by making them both strictly platoon players, it makes it that much more impossible to ever get those contracts off the books for KW, without eating huge chunks of salary. Yes, it's a compelling argument that Fukudome always does well in April play, but Rios is so sensitive (not sure what would be a better term) that in all probability only playing 25-35% of the time (against LHP) would bring about further deterioration in his skills, attitude and performance. As with Dunn's first handful of AB's, Ventura's not going to go there this early in the season. And finally, Lillibridge looks to have back his REALLY long swing. By projecting them into the line-up based on limited 2012 success, how much is that success likely to repeat itself if you look at Brent's career track record as a major league hitter? 25%? Obviously, he's only getting limited AB's, so it's not fair to judge him based on a few PH appearances...but expecting Lillibridge to hit 15+ homers again is just like projecting Brent Morel to hit 18-24 homers based on the last six weeks of 2011. And we saw how well that performance from the end of last season has carried over to this one. The pitching is too good to waste this season, if there is any chance to compete. I'm all for giving the youngsters Morel, Beckham, de Aza and Flowers plenty of playing time, but if there is a way to maximize the offensive potential, why not try to do that? Regarding Escobar, yes I would send him down for Conor Jackson, as soon as Jackson demonstrates that he's back to his normal level of performance. They have Lillibridge to fill in at infield position, if they need it. Removing the "hole" in the middle of the lineup vs. LHP is a higher priority than a utility infielder. If the infield defense were a weak point, that would be another story. However, all of our infielders are superb, and this team does not need a defensive replacement at those positions.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Apr 15, 2012 -> 07:27 PM) Can Lilly play second base effectively? It might be time to start sitting Gordon 3 days a week. Definitely at least 2 of every 7 games. Yes, Lillibridge can play 2B, and he would be an offensive upgrade vs. LHP. However, I'd rather give Beckham a chance to figure it out. That is not the case with Dunn and Rios. They have had plenty of time to do that. Lillibridge is a better platoon candidate for de Aza in CF.

Here are Dunn's split stats vs. LHP for each of the last 4 years: 2008 .195 .351 .422 2009 .268 .351 .438 2010 .199 .304 .416 2011 .064 .235 .074 Watching him thus far this year, (0 for 11) I don't expect any better. At this point in his career, he has "earned" a seat on the bench vs. LHP. You have to ask yourself how you bat a guy with numbers like that in the middle of your lineup. I don't care how much money he's making.

So far, early in the season, it is very apparent that this team has the two most important components to play winning baseball; pitching and defense. The starting rotation is deep, and the bullpen has a collection of great arms, with a nice mix of veterans and youngsters. Unfortunately, the offense is going to struggle to score runs. Saving a trade, there are several things that could be done to attempt to better utilize the limited talent on this squad. Some changes in the order, and platooning a few guys, could improve the offense, without compromising the defense. I posted a few of these recommendations in another thread, but suspect that the subject got buried there. Given its importance, I’d enjoy your suggestions regarding how the Sox might improve run production without a trade, and without compromising the defense. Here are my suggestions: Fukudome has a career OBP .047 higher than Rios, versus RHP. He would make a good number two hitter against righties, and his defense is probably close to as good as that of Rios. His career .368 OBP, and ability to take a lot of pitches, would look very good hitting in front of the heart of the order. Against LHP, Rios could return to RF, and Ramirez could bat in the number 2 hole. Alexei has very good career numbers vs. LHP, including a .354 OBP. Lillibridge demonstrated tremendous power versus LHP last season, with a .585 slugging %, and a very respectable .346 OBP. He has earned some playing time, and the least that he should be afforded is the opportunity to hit versus LHP. He could platoon with de Aza in CF, and provide comparable defense. De Aza is a better hitter vs. RHP. They are almost interchangeable, and both provide good speed and defense, thus making an ideal platoon tandem. The third platoon will likely materialize once Conor Jackson gets his swing back at AAA. He is too talented, with too impressive of a track record, to languish in the Minors. especially on this offensively challenged roster. Now that he seems completely recovered from his terrible bout with Valley Fever, and the hernia he suffered, he should return to his previous form, especially given that he'’s only 30. He could platoon as DH with Dunn. Even if Adam gets back on track, he is not that good of a hitter versus LHP, and Jackson has always owned lefties. In his first 3 Big League seasons from 2006 through 2008, his OBP vs. LHP was .378 .408 .446 respectively. Striking out fewer than once every 10 at bats would also be a refreshing change from the "whiff machine" that is Dunn against both right and left handed pitching. If Jackson starts hitting at AAA, he has to be given a shot, and a platoon with Dunn is the minimum opportunity that he should get. Another lineup change has to be to move Viciedo down to the number 5 spot. That would put Paulie 3RD, Dunn clean up, and Viciedo 5TH, versus RHP. Versus LHP, I’d like to see Konerko 3RD, Jackson 4TH and Viciedo 5TH. In any case, Paulie should not be batting clean up, as it would result in his leading off too many innings. All of these changes would increase the number of base runners, and the mix of right and left handed hitters in our otherwise right handed heavy lineup. The Sox will still need to get better production from Beckham and Morel, but that could very well transpire, and both players provide Gold Glove caliber defense. Robin must figure out ways to maximize the offense, without compromising the stellar defense, and these changes could go a long way to accomplishing that.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Apr 14, 2012 -> 06:56 AM) At what point do you send him down to AAA and have him totally revamp his swing? I was all for giving him one more full season to prove himself, but now I'm thinking spending some down time in Charlotte without the pressure of immediate results may do him some good. Not saying we should make the move now, but if he keeps this up throughout the rest of April and into May it must be considered. The good news if we go this route is we have a guy at AAA (Tyler Kuhn) who can take Beckham's spot on the roster and who can compete with Lillibridge for playing time at 2B. Kuhn is exactly the same age as Beckham, and also had a stellar university career. Last year made people really take note of him, and he is off to another good start. I'd be very interested to see how he would adjust to MLB pitching.

This offense is very worrisome. The same group seems to be picking right up where they left off last year. Rios, Dunn, Beckham and Morel, are still huge holes in the lineup. Let's hope either they figure it out, or that Robin and K. W. will be proactive, and make changes before the team finds itself in a hole, from which they can't crawl out.

It looks like the hitch in his swing has become more exaggerated, and he seems to start it later. It's so frustrating to watch. I can't believe that there aren't people working with him to fix this.

I understand that he is not a plus defender, and that's why I suggested that Morel should be a late inning defensive replacement. McPherson really hasn't had a chance to play regularly at the Big League level, since coming back from his back surgeries. He's only had 26 at bats since 2008. Does anyone really believe that those 26 at bats provide evidence of anything? He has hit very well at AAA, especially vs. RHP. I don't think that there's any way to know what he would do. He certainly has the potential to be an impact bat, which I don't think either Morel or Escobar do. What would you guys suggest that this team do to make the offense more respectable? There isn't much for opposing pitchers to fear in our lineup, besides P.K.

I know that it's a little premature, but I'd love to see Escobar sent back down to Charlotte, and Dalla McPherson brought up. He has been a monster the last couple of years, vs. RHP at AAA. The offense could sure use a left handed power bat. I don't think that there is much more for him to prove at AAA. The poor guy had so much promise before his back problems. Morel could play 3RD versus LHP, and be a late innings defensive replacement.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 2, 2012 -> 08:20 AM) Then put him at Charlotte for a few weeks and if he is going to return to consistent MLB level hitting, he ought to destroy AAA pitching, right? And if he's hitting so well that the team can't afford to not call him up, then make that call. That is precisely what I anticipate will happen, unless he is not completely over his illness.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Apr 2, 2012 -> 08:05 AM) Please take a look at Jackson's stats for the last 3 years, versus all Major League pitching. It's not pretty. That's not indicative of anything. He had very little playing time, and was suffering from a very debilitating illness. No one should minimize the effects of such a serious condition. The hernia didn't help him to get back to normal. Again, I think the issue is whether or not he is healthy. If the answer is yes, why shouldn't we expect him to return to his consistent previous performance, at age 30?

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Apr 2, 2012 -> 07:47 AM) I know what type of season Dunn had last year, but his career OPS vs. LHP is only 30 points lower than Conor Jackson's. And Jackson has been hot garbage since 2008, no guarantee he returns to his old form. Please take a look at Dunn's stats for the last 5 years, versus LHP, which I posted above in this thread. It's not pretty.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 2, 2012 -> 07:37 AM) With the number of question marks in the starting rotation, I can't blame them at all for the 7 man pen. I wouldn't be surprised if we hit one of those "The Pen is really tired and needs a starter to throw 8" days before the end of April even with a 7 man pen. You have a point, but we should be mindful of how potentially poor the Sox offense could be. I think that they are really going to have trouble scoring runs, and their on base percentage could be awful, unless they do some platooning. The following hypothetical lineups with the career split stats for some of the players should make the point: VS. RHP* De Aza CF .338 .409 .541 (.263 .333 .368) Fukedome LF .262 .368 .407 (.251 .328 .364) Konerko 1B .275 .352 .485 Dunn DH .252 .386 .529 (.225 .345 .443) Viciedo RF Ramirez SS .270 .313 .409 (.305 .354 .459) A.J. C .291 .334 .434 (.260 .288 .382) Beckham 2B Morel 3B VS LHP Lillibridge CF .287 .346 .585 (.228 .333 .424) Ramirez SS .305 .354 .459 (.270 .313 .409) Konerko DH .300 .376 .543 C. Jackson 1B .296 .378 .432 Viciedo LF Rios RF .282 .329 .443 (.272.321.431) Beckham 2B Flowers C Morel 3B *The set of numbers in parenthesis represent the player's stats vs pitching from the side not represented for that particular lineup.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 2, 2012 -> 07:13 AM) A platoon DH is an incredible waste of a roster spot. If we were going with 6 pitchers in the bullpen, possibly that's tolerable, but come on, a platoon DH? That might work if both guys can play the field regularly. Konerko will need some rest, and both Dunn and Jackson can spell him a few games. Jackson could also play a little LF in the event one of the other outfielders is either injured, or fails to produce. Almost everyone of the right handed outfielders are question marks. Rios, Viciedo and Lillibridge may or may not be productive enough to play regularly. Moreover, de Aza really shouldn't be starting versus LHP. The point is that I think Jackson could find enough playing time. I'd rather see him on the 25 man roster, in place of one of the relievers.

QUOTE (justBLAZE @ Apr 2, 2012 -> 06:50 AM) I'll bite. Where would he play? The obvious answer is a platoon with Dunn at DH. Adam Dunn has no business facing left handers, period!!! He has never been very good against them, and has a lot to prove, just to be the DH vs. RHP. Here are his stats vs LHP for each of the last 5 years: 2007 .239 .353 .436 2008 .195 .351 .422 2009 .268 .351 .436 2010 .199 .304 .416 2011 .064 .235 .074 I'll accept that he has to play against Right handers, and I'm hoping for a big rebound. That gives him the biggest share of at bats, but he doesn't belong in the lineup vs. southpaws.

Well, since the discussion didn't seem to go anywhere in the "Future Sox" Thread, and since I think most of you are underestimating the importance of this move, allow me to make the case for Conor Jackson. Please take a moment to consider these numbers versus LHP, for the first three years of his career. His average, and OBP were terrific: 2006 .296 .378 .432 2007 .320 .408 .549 2008 .315 .446 .492 I understand that he has not demonstrated big power numbers, but ask yourself this question; Who would you rather have facing LHP, Dunn or Jackson? Here are Dunn's career numbers versus LHP: .225 .345 .443 Wouldn't a platoon of Jackson and Dunn make a lot of sense? Valley fever is just completely debilitating, and no athlete could be expected to perform with that affliction. His illness, and subsequent injury completely explains his sudden inability to play baseball: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?.../SPPU1IDTO0.DTL I think the only question with Jackson is whether or not he has completely recovered. The guy is only 30. He is in his prime, and if healthy, is not a Minor League player. He was a very highly touted youngster, and was the 19TH pick in the first round of the 2003 draft. He performed very well, right out of the gate, at just 24, and improved every year, until his illness. When there are extenuating circumstances, such as a serious illness, that has to be given tremendous consideration. I don't think that K.W. signed him to merely play at Charlotte. I would guess that he intends to give Jackson every opportunity to be in Chicago in 2012. A team this offensively challenged can't afford to let a player with Jackson's ability languish in the Minors.

QUOTE (justBLAZE @ Apr 1, 2012 -> 10:58 AM) http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=84906 Did you even look? Sorry. I didn't think to look in "Future Sox". I still don't quite understand why it would be posted there. Thanks

Why isn't there a Thread discussing this acquisition? http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/03/whit...or-jackson.html http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/print...10&c_id=cws

QUOTE (Jake @ Mar 23, 2012 -> 06:32 AM) He never had this good of a 24 at bat stretch last year. Therefore, he must be fixed He never had half as good of a 33 plate appearance stretch last year.