Lillian

I'm always amazed at why guys don't try to emulate other players who have "figured it out". If you were Rios, and you saw how Konerko's great mechanics help him to be such a good hitter, and then you witnessed Lillybridge turning his career around with a few positive changes in his mechanics, wouldn't you think about trying to tinker a little with your own approach? Every time I watch Rios hit, or should I say "not hit", I wonder why he doesn't try to get his hands up, where they belong, and place his feet in a good athletic stance. Rios probably has a lot more athletic ability than Konerko, but his approach to hitting is just awful. If I were the hitting coach, I'd tell him to try something new, because whatever he's doing now isn't working.

I hate to be so obstinate about it, but at this point, if Ozzie doesn't play Lillibridge in place of one of our strugging players, I don't think I'll watch. Brent has earned a chance to play regularly.

All of this "pride", obstinacy, and ego, makes this underperforming team even more difficult to watch. At least some accountability would make me feel like rooting for them. I want to see Lillibridge, Viciedo, and maybe even Gallagher. If they don't produce, then try something else. Dunn should not hit against left handed pitching util at least one of the following happens: 1) He starts to really produce big numbers versus righties. 2) His platoon substitute fails miserably. 3) Injuries force him to hit full time

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 30, 2011 -> 08:06 AM) Because you don't pay a guy at age 31 $16 million per year over four years to be a platoon player. Just like Ozzie won't take away Dunn's ab's and give them to Lillibridge or Viciedo. He almost always lets veteran players work out of slumps unless they're injured. Nick Swisher is one of the only benchings of a high-salaried player (for a longer than 3-5 game span) that I can remember in the last decade. I understand, but what would you do, if it were up to you?

Dunn has been very bad vs. left handed pitching for the last several years. That wasn't always the case, and in fact, he had a few years earlier in his career when he actually hit lefties really well. Scouts must have found a big hole in his swing vs southpaws, and the book on him is probably pretty well established by now. Dunn's value to this team is to provide a left handed presence in a very heavily weighted right handed line up. Versus left handed pitching, that function is not relevant, and he isn't good enough to be in there, when he serves no other purpose. What exactly is he supposed to be bringing to the game? Is it his blinding speed? Or perhaps his great defense, which if he had it, wouldn't be relevant as a DH. The point is he serves no purpose vs. left handed pitching. Any other player on the bench would be a better choice. Lillibridge is the best current option. He's very good vs. lefties, and when he plays his speed and defense add a lot to the team. He could play right, and let Carlos D.H. versus lefties. Or, he could play left, and let Pierre DH, although, many of us have our doubts about the merits of J. P. being on the field, in the first place. Brent has certainly earned the playing time, and he would be a far better option than Dunn vs lefties. And of course, an even more obvious solution here is to bring up Viciedo and platoon him with Dunn. In order to get the youngster more playing time, he could spell Pierre a couple of games a week vs. right handers, and maybe even give Carlos a day a week off in RF. Why is none of this apparent to management? In fact, why wan't this the plan from the beginning?

QUOTE (chw42 @ May 27, 2011 -> 01:33 PM) I think you meant J.P. Riccardi. Not Mike Rizzo. Yes, thanks.

When Toronto's GM, J.P. Riccardi, just let the Sox take Rios and his contract, I was elated. Now I think most of us think that K. W. probably did the Blue Jays a big favor. His contract runs all the way to 2015 when a 13.5 million dollar option, or a 1 million dollar buyout, would complete this horrible deal. In the meantime, he will cost the Sox about $12.5 million a year. For my part, I've seen enough. The end of 2009, the second half of last year, and this horrendous start tell me that he is not worth $12 million now, and I doubt that he will be any better as that contract matures. He has pretty much gone down hill since the promising beginning of his career, and at 30, I doubt he will improve much from here. I wonder if the Yankees are desparate enough for pitching that they might agree to a swap of Granderson for Rios, if the Sox included Jackson. The Yankees would acquire a centerfielder to replace Granderson, and they would fill one of their big holes in the starting rotation. I understand that Granderson will probably not continue to hit homers at his current pace, but he is a left handed bat, and could either lead off, or bat in the middle of the order, providing the left handed presence that Dunn was supposed to give the Sox. Moreover, his contract is shorter, which I personally like. Then all they would have to do is find a way to get rid of Dunn's horrible contract, and his unbelievably bad performance in the A. L. What National League team is desparate enough for power and has anything the Sox could use? If there is such a potential deal out there, please Kenny, put us all out of our misery!!

This year's team has the same problem that the Sox had last year. They badly need a left handed threat in the middle of their right handed heavy lineup. Initially, Dunn was able to at least provide a left handed presence, even if he wasn't actually producing. However, it has now gotten so bad that I doubt any opposing pitcher is concerned about facing him, much less fears him. While I agree that Viciedo should be called up and given plenty of playing time, I think that move has to involve replacing Pierre. Viciedo is another right handed hitter, and that is not what the Sox need to fill the hole that Dunn has created. That is why Kotsay was allowed to play so much, even though he was so unproductive. It's the same problem. This team has got to find a left handed presence, and quick. They need to find a left handed hitter to bat 4TH or 5Th, between Quentin, Konerko, Alexei, Rios and Beckham. The only possible candidates on this team are Teahen, McPherson and Gallagher. I wouldn't be opposed to giving any of those guys a chance to bat 5Th. None of them are good enough to even consider for cleanup, but a guy like Gallagher might be able to hit 5th. He's a high OBP guy, with one more walk than strike outs. And he has gap power, with 18 doubles in just a quater of a season. He's played quite a bit of outfield in his career. Maybe they should call him up too. At least he wouln't lead the League in S.O.'s If the Sox really wanted to try something radical, they might bench Pierre, Dunn and Rios. Put Viciedo in LF. Lillibridge in CF, and leading off Gallagher moving around to spell Konerko and Quentin each a couple of games a week. He could DH the rest of the time. I'd love to see a lineup like this: CF Lillibridge 3B Vizquel RF Quentin 1B Konerko LF Gallagher DH Viciedo SS Ramirez C A. J. 2B Beckham I realize that this isn't going to happen because they're paying Rios and Dunn too much money to sit. However, I go back to what I've said before, which is that players should be held accountable. There is no excuse for a guy to be as bad as Dunn, unless he's hurt, in which case he shouldn't be on the field, in the first place. I mean really; leading the League in S.O.'s and striking out 9 consecutive at bats, while producing not much more than your part time utility speedster (Lillibridge). I don't care how much he's making, he can't be allowed to continue to kill this team's chances. We're nearing the end of the first third of the season. Enough is enough. The Sox are wasting way too many good pitching performances, just because high priced offensive players can't contribute. If you don't bench these guys, it sends the wrong signal to everyone in the organization. It says; "Don't worry, just get a big contract, and then you don't have to ever produce again. Just sit back and collect the money. Oh, and you young guys toiling the Minors, don't even think about being able to take away an established veteran's job. It isn't going to happen." I understand that this is common practice in baseball, but that doesn't make it right.

What a thoughtful and well reasoned post. It was very interesting. Thanks I'm just thrilled to see him hitting third in the lineup. I've been arguing for that all year. It just reinforces how bad Dunn has been. He's had the benefit of batting in front of Konerko and Quentin all season, and hasn't been able to capitalize on the opportunity. Carlos is a prototypical #3 hitter, and I hope that Ozzie realizes that, although he was quoted yesterday as saying that he intends to put Dunn back in that spot, as soon as he starts hitting. How frustrating? At this point, Dunn's only value is to break up the string of right handed hitters. Even then, the hole in the lineup that he represents may offset that benefit.

Given our lack of trading "chips", here's an idea that might be better than a trade: Bring up Gallagher and platoon him at leadoff with Lillibridge. Apparently, he knows the strike zone and has already drawn 25 walks in just 1/4 of a season, for a .389 OBP. His OBP is even better vs. right handers at an impressive .410. He has gap power and could play left. I understand that he has just average speed, but who cares, if he can get on base? Lillibridge is killing left handers again this season, after doing pretty well against them the end of last year. I think most of us are learning to love this kid. Some have pointed out that he would be overexposed playing every day. He has done much better vs. lefties, so playing just a few times a week shouldn't be a problem in that regard. This solution would result in Pierre being relegated to the bench, traded, or DFA'd. That alone gives this idea merit.

Why does a man as big and strong as Dunn have to try to hit home runs? Wouldn't he be better off to try to shorten his swing and just make contact more often? As strong as he is, I'm sure that plenty of his hits would leave the park, but they can't fly out of the park if he doesn't put the bat on the ball.

QUOTE (flavum @ May 21, 2011 -> 02:59 PM) I hate to pick on the one negative today, but I have no idea how a player as established and consistent in his career as Dunn is, can be this bad for this long. Dude, get it going. Dunn's only value to this team right now is his left handed "presence" in the lineup. He should never bat 3rd again until he starts hitting. Quentin should hit 3RD and Paulie clean up, then let Dunn hit 5th to break up the rest of the right handed hitters.

If Ozzie doesn't let Lillibridge take J. P.'s leadoff spot, I give up on him as the manager. This kid has earned more playing time, and Pierre should have done enough to play himself off this team. How long does a guy have to demonstrate that he's a better baseball player than a guy he should replace? Offense, speed, defense, the kid is doing it all, and that's without regular playing time, or a regular position. I know that he has never really shown anything until late last year, but he's not that old and has never had that much of a chance. How can you not be a fan of a guy who's doing everything he's doing? And while we're at it, let me fill out the lineup card for you Ozzie: LF Lillibridge 3RD Vizquel RF Quentin 1B Konerko DH Dunn SS Ramirez C A. J. 2B Beckham CF Rios

Why not start by trying to determine what the starting rotation could look like for the next couple of years? The Sox have Floyd, Sale, Humber and Peavy under their control, if they want them, for two years or more after this season. Humber only has one year of ML service time, so he could be an inexpensive back of the rotation starter for a long time. Buerhle and Jackson will be Free agents, and Danks only has one more year before also becoming a free agent. If the Sox could sign Danks to a long term contract, their pitching could be very good for the next 3 years. Jackson and Buerhle would be my personal choices to trade for young talent. I think that we have to root for both of them to do well, so that we could get something back from a contender, around the trading deadline. Who are the teams to which Mark would agree to be traded? The contract should not be that big of an issue to a contender. After all, it would only be for a part of this season. They wouldn't owe him anything next year, and could get the draft pick. What is the highest priority in a trade? I still think that a good left handed bat should be a priority. All of our decent prospects are right handed, as is everyone on the ML roster except Dunn.

I didn't finish reading all of the posts, but it should be noted that replacing Pierre with Viciedo would require another move. That's because Ozzie insists on a stolen base threat at the top of the lineup. Lillibridge is the only even slightly viable candidate for that spot. Therefore, you would have to find a place for Lillibridge in the infield, with Viciedo, Rios and Quentin in the outfield. As others have stated, McPherson is simply a left handed power bat off the bench, taking Teahen's place. Viciedo is right handed, and needs to play every day. There is nothing wrong with this move. The Pierre issue still has to be addressed, but this move is an entirely different matter. Is there anybody else around who the Sox could acquire to play either 3RD or 2ND and fill the lead off spot? Beckham could always go back to 3RD. I still like Lillibridge but it appears that Ozzie doesn't want to go that way. Unless we can find a prototypical leadoff hitter, Viciedo will not replace J. P. in LF. What a shame.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 17, 2011 -> 07:35 AM) If Joe Mauer read everything that was being said and whispered about him in Minnesota and let it get to him, he might never get another hit in the majors. These guys are used to dealing with criticism. They're professionals. It goes with the multi-million dollar guaranteed contracts. It's when it extends to 12-18 year olds, the recruiting and "shady agents" and criticism of basketball and football players, that's when I think it can have more of an effect by far than ANYTHING said at soxtalk or wsi or The Score or WBBM or written in the newpapers. I'm sorry, I should have put it in teal. I thought the sarcasm was obvious. My point was that if Ozzie talked about him the way most of us do, and the way some of us seem to think Ozzie should, it couldn't do much for the guy's confidence.

We all have to remember that Ozzie can't speak as candidly about players as we can, here in a forum. He has to be supportive of his players, as long as they remain on the team. What would it accomplish to talk about J. P. the way we do? I'm confident that Ozzie and K. W. are contemplating the kind of move that we'd all like to see, but we aren't going to hear anything about it until it happens. I think when the time comes, Ozzie will spin it something like this: "We have to give this kid a chance. He's playing really well at Charlotte, and we have to find a place for him. Juan is struggling right now, so we're going to give the Tank some playing time." If Viciedo can establish himself, they probably don't care any more than we do what they do with Pierre. But in the meantime, they have to do whatever they can to try to instill confidence in Juan's psyche. I think that if we were in Ozzie's shoes, we'd do the same thing. I hope that Juan doesn't read our comments about him. That could negate anything Ozzie might say to try to bolster his confidence. You have to feel a little bad for the guy. I'm one of his biggest detractors, but you have to give him credit for being a hard working, dedicated athlete. If he fails, it sure isn't for the lack of effort. It's a shame that he just doesn't have many tools beyond his diminishing speed.

I'm going to just keep rooting for Viciedo to force the Sox to bring him up. If he hits well enough, and plays acceptable defense, someone in the organization will see to it that he is given a chance to play, and the obvious odd man out would be Pierre. They're not going to play Viciedo at 3RD. That might provide Ozzie with an excuse to bench J. P. He can spin it that it's more a matter of Viciedo needing an opportunity rather than Pierre earning a demotion. If and when he gets a shot in either LF or RF, I don't much care who they let lead off. I still like the idea of getting Lillibridge in the mix. He would be very serviceable at 2ND, with Vizquel or Beckham taking over at 3RD.

If the Sox aren't ready to give Viciedo a shot at LF, there is another feasible in house solution. Ozzie probably won't be satisfied unless he has a legitimate stolen base threat at the top of the lineup. Therefore, why not platoon de Aza and Lillibridge in LF? They both have good speed, stolen base skill, and play good defense. De Aza has hit righties really well the last couple of years, with an OBP consistently over .400, and he's continuing to do so this year at Charlotte. Lillibridge has been very good vs. lefties the last two years, albeit in very limitted playing time. I can't believe that platoon could be anywhere near as bad as J. P. and the defense would be improved tremendously.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ May 12, 2011 -> 07:17 PM) JP is so bad that he's brought Kalapse out of hiding. How pathetic is it that this guy is going to get 4-5 at bats every game for the rest of the season unless he gets hurt? Bingo!!! I'm hoping for a hamstring. Nothing serious, just enough to keep him off the field

Whether or not we agree, Ozzie will likely not start anyone at leadoff who is not a base stealer. That means that if Pierre sits, either Lillibridge or Rios has to lead off. That was part of my original suggestion of putting Brent in the lineup. If Viciedo takes and OF spot, that means J. P. has to go, and Lillibridge has to play in the infield in order to leadoff. Vizquel should start to get some playing time at either 3RD or 2ND. Why not bench either Morel or Beckham, and let Omar play and bat second, which is where he is best suited? Having Omar's glove on the field at least makes up for any defensive diminution resulting from the switch to Viciedo for J. P. And given Dyan's arm, it may not even degrade the defense in L.F. An infield of Omar at 3RD and Lillibridge at 2ND would be very good defensively. I love Beckham, but this can't be allowed to continue much longer. How many 200 hitters can this team afford to have? If it wouldn't be for Carlos and Paulie, this team wouldn't have any offensive production. I just can't see how a manager lets so many guys play so poorly without some accountability. What the hell is this? Do we now have a tenured system for baseball?

There is another point here regarding something a little less tangible. When you have 4 key players under performing as badly as Pierre, Beckham, Rios and Dunn all have this season, perhaps you need to make a change just to let everyone be reminded that there is such a thing as accountability. You need Rios' defense in CF. Dunn is a big contract, and a potential force, with a very consistent long term track record. He has to be in the lineup if just by virtue of his left handed presence. Beckham has so much promise, and has shown flashes already in his young career. You can justify giving him some slack. Therefore, by process of elimination, J. P. has to sit, or be gone. Moreover, you have to consider the young player toiling in the minors, in an attempt to prove he is worthy of being promoted. What kind of signal does it send to all minor leaguers when they have to remain there even though they are doing their job, while veterans take their spot on the Big League roster, even though they "suck"? Imagine how demoralizing it would be to be putting great numbers at AAA and not be given a chance, because Juan Pierre was "untouchable" at your position. When you put it that way, it really does sound absurd, doesn't it?

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 12, 2011 -> 05:56 AM) Maybe. But Ozzie almost always has preferred going with the steady, veteran hand. In this case, he'll defer to Omar Vizquel first. There's just no way with Beckham struggling again offensively and seemingly having adapted to playing an above average MLB 2B that they'll move him again. If you put Viciedo in LF, you're also changing Quentin away from a position he's finally grown comfortable playing. Probably not the wisest idea to do that in the middle of the season, it's more of an off-season move that you prefer him for mentally. If Quentin was also struggling offensively, I'd take a chance and think about moving him to LF, but not at this point in the season. Heck, they might be more likely to stick Dunn in LF and DH Viciedo than they would be to move both Quentin and Beckham again. Ok. So how about Quentin in RF, Viciedo in LF, Vizquel at 3Rd, Lillibridge at 2B and leading off? Bench Pierre, and figure out what to do with Beckham. Maybe he needs some time at AAA. Do you even favor the idea of trying to get Viciedo in the lineup? If so, how would you do it? I don't think that you were really serious about putting Dunn in LF.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 12, 2011 -> 04:31 AM) Because Lillibridge would be overexposed as a starter, and he's hardly ever played 3B in his career. http://www.thebaseballcube.com/profile.asp...llibridge.shtml In fact, he's NEVER played 3B in his life that I can see as a starter. Only SS, 2B and CF. His career at the University of Washington, he spent a lot of time in the outfield but none at hot corner. The White Sox aren't going to risk this kind of grasping for straws move with a $128 milllion payroll. Ozzie will stick with Pierre. You'd have a lot stronger argument if you put Viciedo at 3B again, but they're simply not going to do that, either. In all likelihood, they'll give the playing time to Vizquel first, like last year. I'm not convinced that he couldn't handle the "hot corner", but if you're right, why not consider letting either Beckham or Vizquel play 3RD? Lillibridge could certainly handle Second. You understand that the motive in all of this is to get Viciedo in the lineup. Don't you think that lowest defensive liability would result from putting Viciedo in RF and Lillibridge in the infield?

It appears as though Viciedo has completely recovered from his broken thumb, and has resumed the hot hitting he displayed last year when he was called up, and this year in Spring Training. The problem is how to get him in the lineup. Here's my suggestion: Put him in the outfield, probably in right because of his arm. Move Quentin back to LF. Sit Pierre Now, the team needs a lead off man. One solution would be to give Lillibridge a shot at 3RD Base. Morel hasn't shown much, and his defense has not been as advertized. Lillibridge has played really well, going back to last September, and deserves a shot at some more playing time. He'd probably be at least as good at leading off as Pierre has been, and he's arguably a better all around player. So, why not substitue one Brent for another at 3Rd? The lineup could really be scarey if you add Viciedo, and get the rest of the guys performing up to their normal level. 3RD Lillibridge SS Ramirez LF Quentin DH Dunn 1B Konerko RF Viciedo C A. J. CF Rios 2B Beckham If Beckham and Rios start hitting, they could be moved up in the order. If Beckham doesn't start hitting, Vizquel should be given playing time at Second, and place in the number 2 hole, where he is at his best offensively.