Gregory Pratt

QUOTE(iamshack @ Dec 21, 2007 -> 12:38 PM) Huge, super bold moves? He walked into David Wright and Jose Reyes. That helps a bit. He signed Beltran. Good signing, but he basically outbid everyone else in baseball, and since then, Beltran has been hot and cold. Plenty of rumors about them willing to move him in the right deal over the past year. A couple other high profile signings- Delgado, LoDuca, but nothing earthshatteringly brilliant there. Best moves have probably been getting Oli Perez and John Maine, although Maine came back to earth the final few months. I don't think he's necessarily bad, but I don't see him as anything above average, either. With the resources he has to work with over there, I don't think he's done anything more than be a beneficiary of having almost every player available to him in one way or another. And some of his worst moves, IMO, are ones he didn't make. Has refused to deal for a top of the rotation starter when his team desperately could of used one at the end of the last two seasons... As others pointed out -- Pedro! I think it's inexcusable to make a list of bold moves Minaya made to re-make his franchise and not mention Pedro or Wagner. He turned that franchise into a serious contender. He was bold. He deserves credit for taking huge risks. That's all I'm saying. QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 21, 2007 -> 12:59 PM) When it comes to starting pitching, this organization does in fact have some depth of talent. With Gio and Eggy behind the starting 5, and a few other strong starters in the system, that already puts the Sox above the median in terms of depth. But you are almost correct about... well, everything else in the system: position player talent and bullpen depth are pretty bad. Not completely bereft of anything of course, but close. I'm not high on Egbert. And Gio needs to prove himself at higher levels and be durable in the Major Leagues to prove anything. Gio's a bit exciting, but he's a huge question mark. And after those two, we haven't got much besides DLS who is a ways away.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Dec 21, 2007 -> 12:25 PM) I suggest you never go to Europe, because if the Sox-Cubs thing bothers you, a Derby match and how the fans act would really get you upset. The rivalries here are nothing, and are as civil as possible. I wasn't commenting on civility. And I love soccer riots/fans.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Dec 21, 2007 -> 12:15 PM) Why such a fan of Omar Minaya? He is KW, with a dollar in his pocket instead of 50 cents, and without the WS title... I'm not entirely sure that's true. It might be. I'm just a fan of the way Minaya has made the Mets respectable with huge, super bold moves, but I'm not a huge fan of him.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Dec 21, 2007 -> 12:05 PM) Besides your love for Ozzie, is there ANYTHING about the organization you do like? 1. Ballpark people, overall, except for that one guy near left field who sells beer. Everyone else is good. 2. Community relations. 3. Brooks. 4. Food. I think they're outstanding at taking care of their fans. I don't know about the ticket holders, but I have heard mainly good things. I think they've got a good relationship with the city and its people. There's one thing about KW I like -- his aggressiveness. But not his brand of aggressiveness. I like aggressiveness and determination and focus, but I think there's a big difference between what he does and what, say, John Schuerholz or Theo Epstein or Omar Minaya or Tony Reagins or Dave Dombrowski do. I don't know how to describe it, but I guess using a political metaphor I could say it's the difference between Harry Truman and George W. Bush. But I do, generally, like KW's aggressiveness. He isn't afraid. I just don't think he's good. What else? At this moment, with this administration? I don't think there's much more. I don't take pleasure in saying that. I do take pleasure in saying that I always enjoy the ballpark and I don't doubt anyone's committment.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 21, 2007 -> 11:45 AM) Then aside from wanting to insult this team at every opportunity, what was the point of replying to my post saying that Prior is a poor fit for us because of the guys we have? You may not like the guys we have, but if you're arguing that we can't count on them in a Mark Prior thread, it certainly seems to reason that you're advocating picking up Prior. If you're not doing that, then all you're doing is going after these players without a purpose. I wanted to make the point, counter to your assertions, that our depth isn't so much depth as a lot of bodies, so I understand why people would want someone else. I wasn't trying to insult or pick a fight...sorry if it came off that way.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 21, 2007 -> 11:30 AM) We could get into it over that, but let me respond by asking this; how does picking up Mark Prior for one year when he'll probably spend half of it on the DL and then certainly walk at the end of the year fix that? I'm not an advocate of picking up Prior. I'm just saying, we have a depth of bad players/pitchers and I don't feel comfortable relying on that "depth" into the future.

QUOTE(Jenks Heat @ Dec 21, 2007 -> 11:01 AM) In my mind it is the exact same thing. They are the bitterest of rivals due to the fan base. That is why college rivalries are that big. Any rivarly to be a rivalry has to have a dislike for the opponent. The greater the dislike, the greater the rivalry. I think true blue Boston fans hate the Yankees where as Yankee fans only need to point to the fact that there is 100 years of success behind their claim. The cub v. Sox rivalry stems from the fact that the cubs are treated as an elite franchise while up until 3 years ago they went over 30 years without have back to back winnign seasons. The Sox treated as a cheap franchise in the national media nad the cub are a media darlingyet the results do not prove this. Red Sox fans love their team far more than they hate the Yankees. As for the rest, I have a controversial point to make and I want to preface it by saying that I loved the White Sox growing up and still do. It is my team and always will be, no matter how much I flirt with the Atlanta Braves or cinderella seasons or not having a team and being "an observer!" or whatever. So I ask that nobody take it as an attack upon them or our team, even though I know that it is a controversial thing to say here on a White Sox message board. The White Sox invite apathy, scorn and distaste from the media and many fans of baseball due to the franchise's history. It might well be well-deserved and it might be unfair. I think it's both. But the White Sox are the only franchise in the history of the game to be caught throwing the World Series. There are some rumors that the New York Giants did it, as well, but they're rumors and inconclusive. There is nothing inconclusive about the Black Sox. And what happened after the Black Sox? The White Sox sucked. Babe Ruth took over baseball, followed by Gehrig, DiMaggio, Mantle, those great Yankee teams that took over baseball and overshadowed everyone. After that, the White Sox are littered with good-but-not-good-enough teams here and there along with several bad seasons, few of which are particularly memorable and when your franchise goes as long as ours without winning anything, and arguably the "biggest" thing to happen in Chicago is Disco Demolition Night, it invites scorn and criticism. I've written before that the White Sox, as a franchise and history, are kind of the bastard child of baseball. It's there, but it doesn't get much admiration or affection from anyone other than its dearest and nearest. And the reputation as a "cheap" franchise goes back to Reinsdorf, the Strike, the White Flag Trade (without arguing about the merits of it). The reputation the White Sox get and the criticisms their fans get come from empty ballparks. From that monstrosity we played in during the 1990s. Reinsdorf? To some, he appears a modern Comiskey. I wouldn't go that far, even though I'm not a fan, but he does things like put the White Sox on Cable, chase Harry Caray away and then call him and Jimmy Piersall "scum" and tell them to "eat your hearts out" on national TV. By contrast, Cub fans are known as loyal to a fault, flocking to what most fans and writers consider the last great Cathedral of baseball every season, enduring remarkable heartbreak and agony but staying faithful. The ballpark's always full. The fans are always there. The managers always promise to break the streak. It's an easy thing to glorify. The White Sox? It's hard to glorify the White Sox. And I think that's the biggest thing at play with Sox fans who go crazy about the Cubs. Is feeling neglected. "Second team in the second city." I don't have that problem. I couldn't care less about Cub fans after we won the Series, and I don't really care about media coverage of the White Sox. I'd prefer it if the White Sox were good at taking care of their business with their mouths shut and didn't worry about what the press says -- like the Braves of the Schuerholz era, or Belichick's Patriots. So, the points I've made can be summarized as two: 1. White Sox history invites scorn and criticism. 2. Cubs history invites pity and admiration, leading Sox fans to fury. 3(whichIdidn'tadvertiseinthesummaryintro). I don't care about media coverage. I just want my team to do what it does, do it well and get on with it. Just as long as we never lose to that Phil Garner devil. Feel free to disagree. [i checked this post with Balta after posting it just to make sure it was...proper. That isn't to say he endorsed my ideas. We disagree on a lot of these things. But just that I checked.]

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 21, 2007 -> 10:56 AM) No, because we have more pitching depth than position player depth, and signing Prior actually hurts the cause of fixing that. I still would rather take a flyer on Dallas McPherson if we're signing a non-tendered guy. We don't have depth at anything except bad players.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 21, 2007 -> 10:53 AM) And some team will give it to him. I just don't think it should be us. Because we have great depth.

Detroit takes big risks. First Magglio, and it's continued to this. I love their management.

QUOTE(bmags @ Dec 20, 2007 -> 10:20 PM) even in college sports? That's an exception. That's the exception.

Season's over for Pittsburgh! Pittsburgh might've been able to give the Patriots a big challenge in the playoffs. No more!

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Dec 20, 2007 -> 08:51 PM) I hope they never win the world series, but then again. I never had fun at Wrigley. I am looking forward to adding to my collection of Cubs Suck shirts. The centennial version should be a keeper. Everyone's entitled to 1. enjoy the game of baseball as they choose 2. follow their teams as they wish but I think there's something sad about hating another team as much as you love your own.

QUOTE(longshot7 @ Dec 20, 2007 -> 05:55 PM) Savage was hurt Vince didnt want him to wrestle anymore and by the time he retired in WCW, his body was totally run down. apart from the hall of Fame, do we really need him back on WWE TV? Is that really all? There was no Stephanie bonking?

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Dec 20, 2007 -> 06:04 PM) He had 3 more starts left in the season, and I was under the impression late September starts didn't really count. I understand the time difference, but not sure how much really changed, in terms of value. All I see is hitless telling us that Garland really has very minimal value, and should probably only bring back a RP, then when Cabrera is acquired, Garland apparently had much more value, and was underrated.... I think hitless should explain his change of thought and why he changed his mind. I hardly consider it "talking out of both sides of your mouth" though, especially with the months elapsing. It'd be double-talk if he whispers that the White Sox are the worst team and biggest chokers in the world on September 25th and calls them the ultimate road warriors on September 29th or something. Anyway, that's just my two cents...it's not my discussion.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Dec 20, 2007 -> 05:51 PM) Way to talk out of both sides of your mouth. This is where my problem lies with you hitless.... I don't want to speak for him or apologize for him but I'd point out that there are a lot of months/weeks separating those two posts, and they aren't necessarily irreconciliable. I think hitless should explain, but it is a little awkward to take two posts separated by many months and context like that.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Dec 20, 2007 -> 05:12 PM) I think that's good. Isn't it? Yeah. I'm pulling out of this conversation now. Have fun, guys -- and for what it's worth, I'd do the Gio/DLS/Shelby for Bowden/Crisp deal if quality scouts told me Bowden is better than both of our pitchers and they were sure and I knew I could trust them. Otherwise, I'd probably hang onto what we have.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Dec 20, 2007 -> 05:09 PM) How did you know? You're Batman. I'm a lot of things.

his neighbor is invited, but not you.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Dec 20, 2007 -> 05:06 PM) And hookers. With your neighbor.

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Dec 20, 2007 -> 05:03 PM) oh yeah - with redi whip and hersheys syrup. With alcohol.

I need some ice cream.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 20, 2007 -> 04:27 PM) Agree. I ask you, on what grounds? That is: how do we, or you/DBAHO, come to that conclusion? Cuban numbers? WBC numbers? To elaborate a little: I don't know anything about the guy except he's never even been in minor league American games. I have only heard one thing about his performance and that was fathom hinting in some thread that he looked like crap with scouts or something. Tell me a little more about him, please. I am genuinely curious. (I hope that doesn't sound insulting; I'm asking with a complete open mind as I don't know anything about the guy. I am suspicious that someone can cross over immediately without minor league experience, but that's beside the point.)

Actually, I do think it'd be neat if the Cubs won the World Series next year a few weeks after their hundredth anniversary, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Dec 20, 2007 -> 04:12 PM) You know this how? He won't tell you. But he knows. You can quote him on it! Really, I'm only teasing you in good fun, but let's stop pretending that Baseball America knows nothing about baseball or prospects. Doesn't mean we have to accept it as definitive but they're hardly hacks.