beautox

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Sep 6, 2006 -> 04:46 PM) On some level though, the offense is almost certain to take at least one step backwards...because it's very hard for me to see Jermaine Dye putting up these sorts of numbers again next year. Konerko? Yeah, this is right where he should be. Thome? Maybe a little worse, maybe a little better, you never know with a guy like him. Iguchi? He's right where he was last year overall. Crede? Ok, this is a career year, but it's something we've been hoping for from him for a while. He could, however, take a step back next year. Anderson? Giant step forwards is required. AJ? Well, he's pretty close to his career numbers as well, but he might be down a little bit next season. So, on the guys we have who look like starters for next year...we have at least 1 who has a lot of room for improvement, a couple who are right where they should be, and a couple who could take small-medium steps backwards. And then there's always the injury issue on top of that. So it's entirely possible our offense could lose some amount of potency next year, just based on Dye and a couple others hitting a few skids. If you're smart...you'll also notice the 2 positions I didn't mention...SS and LF...both of which have massive amounts of room for improvement. This is how i realisticly see our line up hitting next year Thome - .285/35-40/100 Konerko - .285/35-40/100 Dye - .285/30-35/100 Anderson - .270/15/60 Sweeney - .290/10/45 Crede - .290/30/100 Iguchi - .280/15/60 AJP - .290/10-15/60 SS - .285+/15/60 i also think with a line up like that even with Dye coming off an MVP caliber season, the line up offers ton of protection and with Sweeney batting leadoff and dye and thome in the 3-4, hes going to see a steady diet of fastballs. I don't see a better offensive team in baseball, except maybe the yankees, but i think it would be 1-2, really close. that team is going to hit over 200HR again. and average wise thats a conservaite est.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Sep 6, 2006 -> 03:50 PM) That depends on an awful lot of variables. I.e. guys who are having career years this year not regressing (K. Rogers, Bonderman, Verlander, Maroth), a lot of young guys staying healthy (Verlander, Maroth, Liriano), and we've seen in recent years in Chicago that guys can unexpectedly go from very down years to very up years. If Mark Buehrle puts up a 3.25 ERA next year, Jon Garland goes for 20 wins, and Vaz/Jose find a way to put up something, anything...and McCarthy gives us anywhere close to what he's capable of putting up...all of which are within the realm of possibility...there's no reason why our pitching staff can't match up with anyone in the Central. That of course assumes that guys won't suddenly decide to suck, which in some ways is a problem for any pitcher in the division except 1. I didn't even see this post, must be going blind. But i completely agree, the sox have the best offense in baseball and that was with 1/3 there line up not producing for the first half, and 2/9ths in the second half, i have to believe at the very least we could maintain what this offense did this year if not get even better.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Sep 6, 2006 -> 03:37 PM) A rotation with Haeger, BMAC, JG, VAZ, and MB would automatically make it the third best in our own division. Which would make it almost impossible to make the playoffs. Once again this depends on what you think of McCarthy and Haeger, and i totally disagree. MB aside from this year has been an ACE, and the definition of a quality start and hes only 27, he not even in hit his prime. Garland is 26 and the winningest pitcher in MLB for the past two years, now i agree W's are a team stat, but when he has that sinker working and busting people inside, its like watching batters hit bowling balls. Vazquez as of late has been outstanding, and even not as of late has always dominated innings 1-5 and sometimes 6, and once again this depends on where you stand but i think hes turned the corner and could easily be our Ace next year, and KW isn't going to deal him not after giving up Young and after one year. McCarthy last year(and this year recently) showed flashes of what he could/can do, he led the IL in strike outs last year even with stops in Chicago, and there is a reason people always ask for him in trades and KW says no. We're not going to agree on Haeger, but i will say this, having a knuckle baller on your staff saves your BP even more, and our BP was the least used BP in all of the bigs this year and last, with Haeger on the Staff we can keep Vazquez on a tight leash. Our Offense is the best in baseball, thats with a leadoff hitter that doesn't get on base, a rookie that struggled for 2months this year and a SS that thinks eye fastballs on a 3-2 count are a good idea to chase. think what we could do with Sweeney and a SS that can actually produce and anderson batting in the 270-280 range. This year the pitching staff hasn't kept us in games and it was all about offense, next year i expect a break out year from Javy, and MB, JG to return to career norms, and Haeger and McCarthy to be league average at least, if not much more than that. Our offense will produce the same amount if not more, maybe not career years out of Dye, but i could see PK getting back to 40-100, and Crede doing 30-100 and same for Dye, with Anderson and Sweeney adding production and something coming out of our SS.

QUOTE(Jimbo @ Sep 6, 2006 -> 10:52 AM) that is too much ability, we need to put ourselves in crisis by inserting pods and mack. and sometimes gload in RF. Seriously i would love to see Pablo and Ross goto the winter league and learn how to play the corners better, it couldn't hurt.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Sep 6, 2006 -> 03:15 PM) That depends on how all-out you go. If you're talking about selling Buehrle, and Contreras, and basically holding onto Jon Garland as our only starter, then yeah you're talking about bypassing those guys' careers. But let's take a look at what we do have. We have a solid, very solid core in Konerko, Thome, Garland, Jenks, Thornton, MMac, BMac, Crede, Cotts, Logan. All of them are under our control for several more years. We also have Dye, Conteras, Vazquez, Buehrle, Garcia, Iguchi, who are either struggling this year or have their contracts up in 2007. Now, assume we put some money into keeping Buehrle. That gives us 4 solid starters counting BMac. And while our minor leagues is not deep, I for one think that the top of our minor leagues is good enough to fill in the holes we do have, i.e. LF. So, if we ran with youth in 2007, we'd have a starting rotation that looks like Buehrle, Contreras/Vazquez, Garland, BMac, Haeger. We'd have around the outfield, Sweeney, Anderson, Dye, and/or Owens and/or Fields. Around the infield we'd have Crede/Fields, Uribe or a replacement @ SS, Iguchi, Konerko/Thome, AJ. In the bullpen, you still have Jenks, Thor, MMac, Logan, maybe Cotts. Basically, I'm saying that even if we decide to do some more selling this offseason than we would if we won the world series again...there's absolutely no reason we can't be at the top of this division next year even if we go with a youth movement. With Sweeney, Fields, Haeger, and Logan, we have 4 guys we can plug in next year who would make the minimum, alongside BMac and BA who already make the minimum. Basically, the only spots we would have to fill would be a couple of bullpen spots, and we'd have freed up about $20 million in letting go of those 2 starting pitchers. Spend another couple million to give Buehrle a few more years, and maybe spend a couple million getting someone to take Vazquez, and we still wind up with a pretty solid core, with decent quality veterans in several spots, along with all of the money savings. And we'd even have 2 guys who can take over Haeger and BMac's current spots as the 6th starter/long reliever guys hanging out in the bullpen and AAA respectively...Tracey and Broadway. We don't have a lot of depth in the minors, but the guys we do have do seem to me to have some real talent. So if we can't win it this year, why not bring some of those guys up, save the money, trade off a few of the vets, stockpile a little bit more talent, go through some growing pains in 07 early, and maybe be in a good position come trading deadline time where we can take on salary to fix whatever holes appear where the rookies aren't ready. I agree that we don't have alot of MILB depth, but isn't the point to keep the big club in contention? thats what the farm is there for to bring in youth when you can, and help you aquire peices (macdougal). If we trade Garcia and Jose, we most likely don't have to help pay for their contracts, and Hermanson comes off the books next year and thats 2mil right there, thats 22million between those 3, along with Podsednik in arb (he makes 700K as of now), and Uribes 2mil, thats alot of money that can be better spent on Crede and Buehrle. Ideally this is how I would like to see '07 SP - MB, JG, Vazquez, McCarthy, Haeger(Broadway if Haeger is faltering by the ASB) BP - Jenks, MacDougal, Thornton, Logan, Riske, Tracey DH - Thome C - AJP has shown that he can catch Haeger and will only get better. 1B - Konerko 2B - Iguchi 3B - Crede SS - Tejada, Young, Lugo, Rollins LF - Dye/Sweeney CF - Anderson RF - Dye/Sweeney Bench: Cintron, Mackowiak, Gload, Stewart(has caught Haeger alot), Ozuna, Ryan can back up Brian in CF The nice thing about our BP is between Jenks/Mac/Thornton/Logan they all have at least 1ML save and some form of closing experience and can all hit 95 +

GO SOX!

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Sep 6, 2006 -> 02:37 PM) You know what? The more I think about it, and the more I see how this team is performing down the stretch, I wouldn't mind terribly another "The Kids can play" year next year. If things keep going downhill and we miss the playoffs...then it might be time to consider some real big changes. Big changes along the lines of moving 2 different starters and starting 2 kids in the rotation to see what they can do, if you can get legit talent for those 2 starters. Things like giving a rookie a chance to start in LF and leading off (a-la Grady Sizemore) while simultaneously murdering Rob Mackowiak such that he never, ever plays Center Field. Dealing Cotts and giving Logan his spot to start the season. Dealing Uribe if you can find a replacement in any of those trades. Hell, even being open to dealing Dye or Crede if you can find the right trade for either of them (only because they'd be as valuable as any other pieces we could deal). Dumping 2 or so starting pitchers, along with Cotts, Pods, Uribe, and maybe finding someone else would free up a ton of money, allowing us to re-up with Buehrle and Iguchi (if we wanted), and more importantly, it might give us a bit of spark/intensity/desire down the road. This team still has a very solid core in Garland, Buehrle, Jenks, Thome, Konerko, Anderson, Thor, MMac, BMac...if this team finishes up the collapse they're working on, why the hell don't we gamble and see what the $400k a year knuckleballer can give us? I agree Balta, i think this team and organization are in a good posistion for the future, i know alot of people(flash) want our Liriano and fear we're going to get smoked in this division for years to come, but i disagree. There are only 25 spots on a roster. The twins are going to eventually have to pay both Johann and Nathan one day, and don't think New York wont be there to up the price, i highly dobut Johann and Nathan are going to turn down that kinda money. This offseason we need to lock both MB and Crede long term, i would also reup with Riske and maybe reup Dye and move him to LF and let Sweeney take over in RF. When Thome retires move Dye to DH/COF backup. I think once we dump Jose + Garcia that frees up a ton of money along with next year bringing in/having Logan/Tracey/Haeger/Sweeney/Anderson/McCarthy/Stewart, i also think that will keep this team hungry. Plus we've got next years draft, Id like to see us go after SS/2B and as always pitching. Lastly we've got Heath who is either going to produce at the ML level or be a AAAA or maybe a LOOGY. We've seen what mediocre LOOGYs can bring to an organization (Mackowiak, Riske) I have to think one of Cotts stature would bring in more.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Sep 6, 2006 -> 02:28 PM) Thats where we will agree to disagree. I agree with you on the trading chips. I think you can easily deal 2 arms out of our rotation this year, and get a good return from one or both, and move BMAC into it easily. I just dont agree on Haeger being ready. I think we will aquire an arm via trade or FA. I dont know if its time to give up on Jose, but I beleive that Freddy needs to be moved. Also PODS, Cotts, and fields can go as well IMO. I just can't see sox going out for a FA this off season like i said its weak sauce sans Zito and Schmidt and maybe Pettitte. Zito is 28 and represented by Boras, Schmidt is 33 and has a history of injuries, and Pettitte sucked this year before his good buddy Clemens showed up and is 34. So we already know Zito is going to New York, that leaves you with Pettitte and Schmidt, do you really want to give those guys 3-4 year contracts that its going to take to land them? i don't; especially when that money can be better spent(MB, Crede). As for trading who would you aquire and how? im curious to see what your thinking. by the way this is a good debate.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Sep 6, 2006 -> 02:11 PM) I understand your philosophy of making over the rotation with younger plays who give us payroll flexibility. But I think you are overrating Haeger just because he seems to be one of the only options. I actually think Broadway is further along at this point than Charlie. If we get rid of 2 of our arms this offseason, I would expect KW to either trade for an SP, or aquire one via FA. Haeger is not ready, or a viable option at this point IMO. I disagree with regards to Haeger, i do think he is ML ready, the organization also must feel highly of him if he was playing in the exhibition games this past ST, had a spot start at the ML level where he was nervous, and is up here as a call up; hopefully September will only further that point. Sickels said Broadway should be ready by mid '07 IF Haeger is strugling, than you bring him up, and you've lost nothing. But once again this depends where you stand on both Broadway and Haeger, you don't feel he is ready and i do, so only time is going to tell. I think the sox are in a great posisiton this offseason they've got Fields, Cotts, Jose, Garcia who look like they call could bring back a nice haul, and then they've got podsednik that some team might bank on a better year next year and is arb eligible, and Uribe who is slick with the glove but madding at the plate.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Sep 6, 2006 -> 02:02 PM) You couldnt be more wrong. That rotation you have posted is atrocious. Javy hasnt turned the corner, what you see is what you get with him. Haeger has no business making our starting rotation next year. He should be a starter in the league for several years from now. Money is besides the point, just moving Freddy and putting BMAC in the rotation saves you money, putting Haeger in the rotation makes this team much worse. Rock while i respect your opinion i disagree. Both Garcia + Jose are bad at stoping the running game, McCarthy is better than one of them at it and Haeger is a wash so in that sense you've already gotten better. We've seen flashes of what McCarthy could do last season and i feel along with others on this site that he has been misused. To cotend in this division we need to bring in cheap peices when possible. Mark/Jon/Javy are all having career worse years, and yet this offense has led this team to a good record. I'm expecting a return to career norms next year with those 3 and possibly a break out year in Javy. Factor in at the very least i expect league average ERAs from McCarthy and Haeger, and we're in contention again, also add to the fact we Have Sweeney in LF and possibly leading off next year getting on at a good clip regardless, and a SS that can produce at the plate, and i expect this team to contend for the division and WC.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Sep 6, 2006 -> 01:45 PM) Jose>Haeger in every sense of pitching and baseball. Haeger is not ready for the show, and is probably worth more in the trade market than to the White Sox. i never said Jose wasn't > Haeger as far as pitching but what i am saying is this MB, JG, Javy, McCarthy, Haeger > MB, JG, Jose, Javy, Garcia In the sense that if Javy has turned the corner he is a power pitcher and can be a #1 Garcia doesn't have "it" anymore, and for the reasons i stated above about Jose. the fact that we save a lot of money and lock up Joe and Mark and get the same production for 1/20th of cost out of McCarthy and Haeger, along with helping restock the farm and possibly getting a top tier SS, leads me to believe we should deal him and Garcia. I'm not looking at this on a 1-1 comparison between Jose + Haeger, infact just change that to Haeger & Garcia and McCarthy & Jose, but what is good for the sox organization as a whole, and waht will keep us young and in contention for years to come in a toughest division in baseball.

*correction* ARod went 1-15 with 10K between aug 25-27th against LAA

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Sep 6, 2006 -> 01:35 PM) Uhhh... So instead of doing something logical like posting a 2 month span of OPS, I have to find just one week. Damn, I guess my thinking is just stupid I don't have the time, nor the care, to find a 1 week time period. I found a 2 month time period, and I think that should be plenty suitable, but if not, you win. how about a few weeks ago against the angels where the pitched him away away away, and he went 0-22 with like 12Ks.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Sep 6, 2006 -> 01:08 PM) why the hell would you want to trade Jose to put a rookie knuckler with no real major league experience in the rotation? Plus its funny to see people calling for Charlie to be a middle reliever yet the thing that makes everyone on this board crazy is when relievers walk people and let people steal bases, two things that he would do all the time. Well i'm glad you asked Rock. Jose is old, a health risk, and for about a year was the best pitcher in the game, also his contract is below market value and there is a weak FA class this offseason, all these things coupled make me think we should move him while we can andstill get a good return on him. Jose doesn't stop the running game either, so thats a wash with Haeger, plus with Jose moved we can apply that money to locking both Joe and Mark long term. Haeger is young, cheap, durable and knocking on the door, he should be given an oppertunity to start, and the white sox have a proud tradition of Knuckleballers, why stop now. We've seen how dominating they can be, if we can get a league average ERA from him(with the possibillity of much more) and save all that money to lock up people long term i would consider that a wise move. I also believe that Javy has turned a corner much like the afermentioned Jose did last year, and unlike Garcia hasn't lost his "stuff"; and even if he hasn't turned the corner next year we will have known our limits with Javy. Having him go out and dominate for 5-6innings every 5th day isn't the worst thing in the world, esp with the way our BP looks next year and Haeger in the rotation saves the least used BP in MLB even more allowing us to keep Javy on a tight leash.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Sep 6, 2006 -> 01:09 PM) I'm done with this topic. Brian Anderson is becoming a damn good player and if you guys who have watched this team all season long can't figure that out then, well whatever... i concur.

QUOTE(S720 @ Sep 6, 2006 -> 12:54 PM) If you are a good hitter, regardless of who is infront of you, you will still be good. Face it. Brian Anderson so far STINKS this year. how is he supposed to drive in runs when there is no one on base, taz sucks, and ajp has gone in full pull mode since the ASB and can be seen in his stats.

QUOTE(Wealz @ Sep 6, 2006 -> 12:47 PM) In his last 10 games, Anderson is 6-for-27 with 1 run batted in. Overall on the road this season, his line is an embarrassing .204/.283/.299. He has knocked in 7 runs in 167 road AB's. Who has he had infront of him for a good portion of the season? Taz.

Haeger also made his debut at 22, Wakefield made his at 26, i think Charlie should be in the rotation next season. We should deal Garcia + Jose and that will open spots for both McCarthy and Haeger.

QUOTE(Pauly8509CWS @ Sep 6, 2006 -> 10:37 AM) I'm looking forward to the 20th-23rd down here, Pygmalion Music Fest is coming and I'm going to go see Of Montreal, Murder By Death, and Judah Johnson for sure. I've not seen them yet, but Murder By Death is supposed to put on a ridiculous show. I remember seeing them with the Lawrence Arms at the Fireside Bowl, a few years ago, and they were ridiculously boring.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Sep 6, 2006 -> 12:40 AM) I have to piss like a racehorse First how does a race horse piss, and secondly how does that manor of pissing difer from a regular horse? New York City's Central Park is nearly twice as big as the European country of Monaco.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Sep 6, 2006 -> 12:23 AM) If Ozzie was worried about offense we would of ditched prancer in left about 2 months ago. Shame on you SSI, you ditch prancer and you'll have the team in "panic" mode.

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Sep 6, 2006 -> 12:10 AM) Greg, the only person who swings and misses more often than Anderson is you. hahahaha, awesome.

QUOTE(irishsoxer @ Sep 5, 2006 -> 11:58 PM) Nice one genius. Sox get 4 hits tonight - Sweeney has 2 of those hits -goes 2-3 in his first game ever and HE knows how to run the bases unlike our 2nd Basemen. Get real. This guy is for real. huh?

QUOTE(juddling @ Sep 5, 2006 -> 11:14 PM) It was a bad ass show up till the scenes from later this season. Just the thought of Rosie O' Donnell lying across a bed asking to be serviced is enough to keep me awake for the next few weeks. (although it was almost counter-balanced by the thought of Brooke Shields bent over the desk!!!) haha yeah, i luvvv nip / tuck

Brian should call out Ozzie's ass Hillenbrand style.