shoota

QUOTE(Soxbadger @ Jul 9, 2006 -> 01:35 AM) There just is no way to know for sure. Plenty of pitchers experience dead arm. Perhaps it was the extra innings they pitched in the playoffs are catching up to them. Anyways, I just mainly disagree with the fact the Sox have to worry about not making the playoffs. Prior to the last 2 games they had i think an 8 game lead in the WC, now its down to 6. They have a deep pitching rotation with veterans and a solid offensive line up. One of the Red Sox, Yankees, and Tigers will fade. If just making the playoffs were my goal, I'd too be happy with Garcia, Vazquez and Garland.

QUOTE(Soxbadger @ Jul 9, 2006 -> 01:22 AM) Over his career Garcia has posted plenty of off years. It's not necessarily his velocity, just hes an inconsistent pitcher. Yes, he's had some off years, but none as bad as this one. Since this is his worst season, it's reasonable to say his loss in velocity has something to do with his ineffective pitching.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 9, 2006 -> 01:13 AM) If that's the case then I don't want him anywhere near the Sox. He doesn't particularly like his coach so he's faking injuries and throwing games? That's just dispicable. I never said Prior has thrown a game. I simply think he's worried about the health of his body and doesn't want to be abused by a manager who has no idea how to manage pitchers. Either way, that was pure speculation on my part, and it added nothing worthy to the discussion.

QUOTE(SoxAce @ Jul 9, 2006 -> 01:05 AM) Ya he would pitched worse. Prior can barely get anyone out in the weak ass NL. He would get his ass bloody if he had to go to the far superior AL. It is usually easier for a hitter to benefit from a change of scenery than a pitcher. Coop cannot help with a pitcher who has been injured each year he's had a major league uniform on. Prior won't suddenly regain his fastball if he's traded. It makes no sense whatsoever. But I should be expecting that from.... (fill in blank) every time. You do understand that Freddy is purposely doing this and Prior isn't right? And you act like Freddy was throwing 95+ to begin with. I have seen him this season throwing 85 to 95 (his high) When he feels to he will throw harder usually in the later innings. LOL QUOTE(Soxbadger @ Jul 9, 2006 -> 01:07 AM) Since when does velocity equal success? But to the original question, I think the White Sox will play in october and will have one of the top 2 rotations in the playoffs. Good point, velocity doesn't equal success, I was only saying it does in the case of Freddy Garcia since he's proven to be a worse pitcher than he was when he had it.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 9, 2006 -> 12:59 AM) I still don't understand how Coop is going to magically heal Prior. I don't think he's hurt. None of this year's medical testing has shown that he's hurt. I think Prior doesn't want to pitch for the Cubs and be abused by Dusty, hence why I believe he'd benefit from a trade. QUOTE(kyyle23 @ Jul 9, 2006 -> 01:02 AM) Ah, i see. More assertions and unproven points. Of Prior and Garcia, who do you believe is more likely to recover his lost velocity?

QUOTE(kyyle23 @ Jul 9, 2006 -> 12:57 AM) Why is it that Cooper can turn Prior around but not Garcia? Seems like with you the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. And your assertion that Prior would pitch better if traded is unfounded and something that can not be taken into consideration. For all we know Prior could come to the Sox and throw one pitch and blow out his elbow, shoulder, calf muscle, etc. Correct, which is why I've been stating, "I believe" instead of "I guarantee."

QUOTE(kyyle23 @ Jul 9, 2006 -> 12:57 AM) Why is it that Cooper can turn Prior around but not Garcia? Seems like with you the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. I answered that earlier: Good point, but Prior's decrease in velocity has to do with recovering from injury while Freddy's loss has to do with either A) loss in ability, or B ) stopped taking performance enhancers. Whether it's reason A or B, Prior is much more likely to recover his velocity and even if he doesn't, would still be the better pitcher of the two. Keep in mind, Prior currently has more velocity than Garcia.

QUOTE(SoxAce @ Jul 9, 2006 -> 12:49 AM) Okay. Freddy- 10 5 4.91 18 18 1 0 0 0 113.2 130 65 62 20 28 66 Mark- 0 4 7.71 4 4 0 0 0 0 21.0 27 20 18 5 10 22 You still think Prior can help us? Your stats don't take into account how Prior would pitch over the rest of the season if he were off the Cubs and on the Sox. I think Prior could benefit from a change in scenery more than any other player in baseball, and the fact that he'd be coming to a winner with a great pitching coach means he'd be likely to perform better than Garcia would.

QUOTE(SoxAce @ Jul 9, 2006 -> 12:40 AM) I'm glad there's people like him in this world who will never sniff a GM job in any profession. Prior has only pitched 200+ innings once in his whole career and even that year he got injured. He's gotten injured every year he's been in the bigs. Ever since his 03 season (where I say those are his career numbers) he's era, hits per innings pitched, earned runs, hr's, and walks have all incresed and his strikeouts have decresed (even though I'll give him that he's still has a nice K's per 9 innings pitched going for him) and I'm not going to even say he's only 14 games above .500 for his career whereas Freddy is 42 games above .500. Not that I'm defending Freddy this year, but I will defend he is a better "pitcher" than Prior regardless of Prior having the better stuff (even though that stuff of his is not the same or is his increased age.) I will back Freddy's career numbers if you like and post more comments but I don't feel that's nesessary. Comparing the careers of Freddy and Prior is irrelevent to the original discussion of who could better help the Sox more in 2006. Freddy's career numbers, like being 42 games above .500, have less influence on his 2006 performance than his diminishing fastball.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 9, 2006 -> 12:36 AM) He's proving otherwise right now. True. Like I said though, getting away from Rothschild and Baker could help him tremendously, and pairing him with Coop could be magical.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 9, 2006 -> 12:35 AM) So what is this "injury" that Prior had? His elbow suddenly gives out on him for no apparent reason and this doesn't bother you? Yeah, I've been following him very closely, and I still think the Cubs were hiding something, but if the Sox medical staff says he's healthy, I'll take the risk. The kid was so dominant in 2003 that I can't imagine him not finding that form again. I think getting away from the Cubs organization would be very beneficial to Prior. I'm curious to see what Cooper could do with a talent like Prior.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jul 9, 2006 -> 12:34 AM) And it is very possible that all of the injuries have taken their toll on Mark and he will never get his velocity back. And even at 91-92 he'd still be a better pitcher than Garcia.

QUOTE(Felix @ Jul 9, 2006 -> 12:23 AM) Yet in this deal, the Sox would be giving up McCarthy, which means that we would be drastically overpaying, assuming you think that Priors value is 'low'. Sure. McCarthy's a good pitcher, but if Ozzie plays favorites and won't let him start over worse pitchers, I'd be happy to trade him for Prior. QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jul 9, 2006 -> 12:26 AM) Prior since he's come back has been clocked at around 91ish fyi. He used to throw about 95-96, so..... Good point, but Prior's decrease in velocity has to do with recovering from injury while Freddy's loss has to do with either A) loss in ability, or B ) stopped taking performance enhancers. Whether it's reason A or B, Prior is much more likely to recover his velocity and even if he doesn't, would still be the better pitcher of the two.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 9, 2006 -> 12:23 AM) 1.) He's been horrid when healthy this year. 2.) Those 3 may have sucked this year but to say that another pitcher can be more productive while on the DL than the bottom of the Sox rotation when they're healty is just cruel. Very possible you're right, but I'd still prefer to take my chances with the guy I believe to be the better pitcher, Prior, than the one who is worse and has lost his fastball, Garcia.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jul 9, 2006 -> 12:21 AM) He should probably do that first in the NL before he comes over to a league that is 10 times better. It's better to trade for a player when his value is low.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 9, 2006 -> 12:17 AM) How exactly would Mark Prior help the Sox win this year? By pitching better than Freddy G, Vazquez and Garland.

QUOTE(SoxAce @ Jul 9, 2006 -> 12:16 AM) Congratulations, the cubs just ass raped us in that deal. How so?

QUOTE(Heads22 @ Jul 9, 2006 -> 12:01 AM) Or we can have Stew for relatively nothing for the next couple years. We can have both. Upgrade Widger with Olivo for 2006, then trade him away for Stewart if he's ready for 2007.

QUOTE(loltrain @ Jul 8, 2006 -> 11:57 PM) Betancourt went into a home run trot and was pointing into the dugout....unfortunately for him it was a routine fly ball. Edit: Also, lol at some of the Sox fans, you guys are a great team, relax and enjoy it. All the same, I think you've been hot almost all season and you still don't have the best record in your division, I'm not saying that you won't sometime soon, but it's pretty silly to say you're the best team by far. Not true. The Sox have many wins but they haven't been hot. In fact, I'd say it's a surprise they've won so many games with as bad as their pitching has been at times, both bullpen and starting. If Coop can get Vazquez and Garland pitching near their capabilities, then the team would be primed for a hot streak. I've already given up on Garcia since he's lost velocity on his fastball and doesn't have the makeup to become a dominant finesse pitcher.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jul 8, 2006 -> 11:54 PM) The Cubs would be happy to take some combination of McCarthy and another player off our hands for Prior. I'd gladly trade McCarthy and Montero for Prior and Williamson/Eyre/Dempster.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 8, 2006 -> 11:39 PM) Did you mean his .229 average? Because that's what he's put up in his career when facing real oponents in the AL. All he's proven this season with his .291 average is that he can hit AAAA talent. Yeah, the fact that he's playing in the inferior league probably is part of the reason for his improved batting average, though we must not forget that he is entering his prime age of production. Even factoring in a regression on his 2006 NL average, I'd still take him, his cannon arm and good speed over Widger. I still believe the presence of Olivo's throwing arm would cut down on potential basestealers when Freddy's throwing, compared to when AJP or Widger are catching.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 8, 2006 -> 11:31 PM) So you want to acquire a catcher and have him learn on the job? How does that help at all? You're better off just sticking with the veteran catcher who has shown a history of being a pretty damn good backup catcher. Also, Olivo has been in the bigs for 5 years now + 8 years in the minors, that's 13 seasons of pro ball and he still can't call a game to save his life, if he can't learn what pitches to call over 13 seasons I don't think the light is suddenly going to flip on for him now. Even if the light never flips for Olivo, and he has to receive his signs from the dugout, his .291 average and cannon throwing arm is still a better alternative than Chris Widger.

QUOTE(greg775 @ Jul 8, 2006 -> 10:52 PM) Cmon shoota. Get a grip. Mark B, Contreras, Freddy, Jon and Vazzy is a GREAT rotation. And McCarthy is there in case of injury. They have been inconsistent, but there is no reason to replace any one of those guys!!! Shoota tell me which one of our five starters you want to be replaced and with whom? You probably wish we woulda got Weaver, right? Hopefully KW can get rid of both Garcia and Vazquez, but if he can only upgrade one, Garcia. I don't know who to realistically replace them with since GMing isn't my job and I don't have the contacts KW has to call around. If I did have contact with every other team, I'd call the Padres because Woody Williams is at the top of my list. Then I'd call the Cubs about Prior.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 8, 2006 -> 11:02 PM) You think Widger calls a s*** game, Olivo is considered one of the worst in baseball at putting down the fingers. Calling a game is something that can be learned, unlike other facets of the game.

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Jul 7, 2006 -> 10:41 PM) Runs given up by the Sox in Widger's last 7 starts 7 ER (L) 8 R, 6 ER (L) 7 ER (L) 5 ER (W Comeback win) 4 ER (L) 2 ER (W) 10 ER (L) Anybody notice a trend? Tonight he went 0-2 with a walk to lower his average to .203. Last year was a great story for him, but he is seriously hurting the team. I know some of you scoffed at the idea of acquiring a new back up defensive catcher like Blanco, but can really afford these automatic losses with Widger behind the plate? Trade for Miguel Olivo? He's hitting .291 and could cut down on the stolen base attempts off Freddy. EDIT: Whoops, Olivo's already been mentioned.