Dick Allen

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Dec 12, 2009 -> 02:27 PM) Yeah but that CF with a sweet glove is also one of the best right fielders in the game and despite what some have said in this thread there is incredible value in that. I'd have no problem moving Rios to right if we acquired another very good centerfielder, the more outfield defense the better. We're likely to end up with a bantam speedster somewhere on the diamond for the purposes of leading off, I'd rather he be capable of playing an above average centerfield than be limited to left or DH (frightening Podsednik scenario). A run saved on defense is equal to a run scored on offense. If the Mariners had any kind of offense last year they could have made it work. Of course, that's just what I assume will happen. Personally I want the 2 best possible baseball players to fill the 2 final spots in the lineup regardless of their ability to hit leadoff. Put together the best 25 man roster that the budget will allow and figure out how the pieces fit later. If Rios is the Rios of the past 2 season offensively, you need a much bigger bat than Brett Gardner roaming next to him in OF at USCF.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 12, 2009 -> 02:39 PM) Maybe KW thinks Carrasco is going to regress this season. His performance last season seemed beyond his capabilities IMO. Having said that, I'd love to have Hudson begin the season in AAA starting with Carrasco as our long-man. However, I'd much rather spend my money on a possible dominant setup man in Putz than a long-man in Carrasco, especially when we have a very capable replacement in Hudson waiting in the wings. I think its probably likely he will regress, however, some team has got to be willing to give you a bag of balls or something and take a chance on him. If he gets $1.5 in arb, only $300k is guaranteed. That they haven't announced it yet tells me they are either trying to get him signed and using the non tender threat to get his price down, or were never considering non tendering him, or are currently soliciting offers.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 12, 2009 -> 02:23 PM) $14 million for a starting player over 3 years. If that's going to handicap us for the near future, we're in big trouble. As for Atkins, I never mentioned he would be better or worse than Johnson. I didn't mean to comment on your Atkins idea at all, actually. According to Gonzalez, they were several hundred thousand apart with Carrasco, so I'm thinking unless Teahan improves on his mediocre offensive numbers and his bottom 5 in baseball UZR rating at 3B, his $5.5 million hit in 2012 can easily come into play, as will his salary next year. People are already b****ing about the $5 million Linebrink is making. In fact, it may be more money than the Sox spend on the starting SS and 2B combined the next 3 years.

QUOTE (scenario @ Dec 12, 2009 -> 02:12 PM) If it were my money, I'd sign DJ, and make the harder decisions (who stays and who goes in the bullpen) as a result of what we see in spring training. Much smarter IMO to enter spring training dealing from a position of strength in the pen. Especially since we're not dealing with huge numbers salary-wise. That's what I say, and remember, it won't even be a guaranteed contract. So either trade him now or keep him around for spring training. You never know what may happen.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 12, 2009 -> 01:03 PM) it may just be that they don't think he can replicate his numbers from last year. They may not want to lose a guy with an arm like Santos and they will try him in the mop up role with Cooper working with him at the major league level. But you would still think they could get something for him. A guy like Carrasco might actually get a better contract being non tendered than offered arbitration.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Dec 12, 2009 -> 01:55 PM) .289/.389/.383/.772 Not quite .850. In order to get up to .850 with a ~.100 iso he'd either have to put up a .470 OBP or hit .370. And Owens' minor league numbers are: .296/.364/.368/.732 Everyone is talking about his glove. The White Sox spent a ton of money on a CF with a sweet glove. The Sox need offense people.

QUOTE (PWSox87 @ Dec 12, 2009 -> 01:03 PM) He's among the fastest 2 or 3 guys in the majors, possibly the fastest and that translates to stolen bases bc he's good at that too. He's worth about a half win to a full win on the bases alone (a win = 10 runs above average). In the field, he is among the best center fielders in mlb. All the fielding numbers say he's top 3 CF minus his whack arm. He's pretty much a slap hitter, ops'd around .850 for his minor league career but that doesn't seem reachable in the bigs bc he can be over powered by fastballs. Overall 5 years of control of him would appeal to me a lot and I think the yanks under value him bc so much of his value is tied to his defense. he looks to be comfortably a 2.5-3.5 win player, which means he is a legit starting OF and upgrade for the white sox. I don't know where you got your minor league OPS numbers but Baseball Reference has them a lot lower than you posted. In fact is minor league numbers are eerily similar to one Jerry Owens.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 12, 2009 -> 01:03 PM) I have seen quite a few posts reflecting this sort of attitude around here over the past few weeks. While we would all love for the White Sox to be major players for the marque free agents, the fact remains that we have a majority of our payroll tied up in the pitching staff, and Konerko and Rios. We all knew going into this offseason that the only way to add impact players would be through trades, not FA signings. Apparently, we are not quite matching up, as of today, with those teams looking to shed payroll or rebuild by trading those high-impact players. That leaves 1 of 2 options: sign some guys off the scrap heap and hope we get lucky with a few of them, or stand pat and go with what we have. Knowing the reaction we would have if we stood pat, it appears to me that the White Sox are taking the better of the two options and at least trying to get lucky with a few down on their luck players. And that's fine with me. This offseason does not seem so different to me than the offseason leading into 05', and neither does the reaction amongst Sox fans seen much different. That's not to say the results will be the same, just that sometimes adding spare parts can go a long way towards building a well-rounded team. I completely understand the desire to complain with each new non-impact player we take interest in, but we should also not be shocked either. I get the feeling around here that people are expecting a Matt Holliday signing or something... Finally, these moves do nothing to damage our future, which is perhaps the most important thing. If they don't work out, it's not money committed long-term and allows us to go in a different direction in 2011-2013. ? $14 million was committed to Mark Teahan, and why would Garrett Atkins be a worse choice than Kelly Johnson or Brett Gardner?

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Dec 10, 2009 -> 08:59 AM) Yeah... when was the last time you can remember picking up a guy in the draft, and keeping him on the 25-man? I seem to remember a long history of passing. When Hawk was the GM, he selected Bobby Bonilla in the rule 5. He later traded him back to Pittsburgh for Jose DeLeon, who eventually was traded for Lance Johnson.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 12, 2009 -> 12:02 PM) Or there is something in the clubhouse that hasn't come out yet... It could be, but you would think they would be able to trade him. Relievers who don't make a ton, can fill several roles and have been effective are pretty coveted.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 12, 2009 -> 11:45 AM) Unless they have a solid lead on a better reliever that is getting non-tendered, I don't get what the problem is here. It doesn't make any sense. The only thing is perhaps he has some physical issues we know nothing about, other than that, its a head scratcher. Like was posted above, at worst sign him and take him to spring training. If there are injuries he fits in, and as long as he doesn't get lit up he could be traded, but even an arb contract is not guaranteed so they would only be on the hook for 20% of it. Its really a low risk signing, unless he's pretty beat up. If they non tender him, there is obviously something there that we don't know.

As long as the theme is "Return to 2006 or 2007" the Sox should sign Garrett Atkins, have him play 3rd and have the waste of $14 million play RF.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Dec 12, 2009 -> 09:14 AM) He was scheduled to throw for teams yesterday Long toss. Not off a mound.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 12, 2009 -> 03:18 AM) Everything I see from reports suggests Carrasco being gone, but it still doesn't make sense to me. Sure Hudson could do the job, but then you are eating up an entire arbitration year of a guy who could easily be the 5th starter of a still stellar rotation in 2011, and losing a rather vital cog of a bullpen because of $2 mill. I actually think a lot of this is due to Matsui, personally. And we won't know his whereabouts until January. My final guess is that Carlos Torres plays the role of Carrasco next year with actual potential to move to middle relief and set up (which Carrasco does not have), Williams is trying to trade him right now for really anything he can get, and that Hudson remains in the minors. I hope Torres is not part of the equation, but I agree the Carrasco situation makes no sense. If they don't want to pay him, trade him, and this little part from Gonzalez makes it even more curious: The Sox met Wednesday with Carrasco's agent at the winter meetings in Indianapolis but were several hundred thousand dollars apart. We aren't even talking $1 million. There's probably a decent chance Carrasco blows up in 2010, but somebody somewhere would pay him his rather measley salary and give the White Sox something for him.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 12, 2009 -> 02:41 AM) Here are the incentive clauses in Scott Linebrink's contract, according to Cot's Baseball Contracts... MVP? All Star starter? Even further, Matt Guerrier was never, ever, ever, ever considered the Twins closer last year, and still "finished" 15 games. Putz's agent is looking for the most money he can get, and if Putz even becomes a setup man, it's likely he's going to "finish" quite a few games. The finished games clause has absolutely nothing to do with Jenks. If anything, it's probably $10K per game that he finishes up until 30 games finished. The finished games have everything to do with being the closer. He also has $250k based on appearances. Before anyone annoints Putz as the bullpen savior, keep in mind he has a higher ERA the past 2 seasons than Scott Linebrink and he's been pitching in Seattle and Citi Field, two of the most pitcher friendly places in the world, and is coming off some elbow clean up, the same sort of clean up Colon had last offseason. He won't even start throwing off a mound until after Christmas. If he's 100% its probably a very good signing. There really is no guarantee of that right now.

QUOTE (chunk23 @ Dec 11, 2009 -> 08:22 PM) How many of us thought the exact same thing when the Sox picked up AJ? He carried a terrible reputation, he got into fights with teammates. 99% of Sox fans despised him. How many still wish he wasn't a part of the team? AJ is nowhere near Bradley. AJ's rep with his Minnesota teammates was very good. He had some problems with a couple of SF guys. Why would Bradley be any different with the Sox than he was with the other 7 teams he played for? Think about it. He has a career OPS over .800. He's put up some real nice numbers, but he's been with 7 teams and hasn't played 1000 games. I think that tells you something about him. The longest a team has been able to put up with him is 216 games. Considering some of the bad actors that have played MLB, his act is legendary. I almost think KW is quietly hoping MN goes after Bradley and he poisons their clubhouse.

QUOTE (chunk23 @ Dec 11, 2009 -> 07:57 PM) I really think he would work great for the Sox. Even last year, which was obviously a down year for him, he managed a +.370 OBP. The guy can mash. He'd be cheap and could probably be had for Linebrink, leaving us money to get another OF (I dont think Bradley in the OF would work at all). He would be such a steal if the Cubs paid a large chunk or if they swapped contracts. The Cubs are very talented at throwing players under the bus, what with having their own newspaper. It appears a lot of people here ate it up. The Cubs scapegoated the hell out of him. The organization signed him to a stupid contract, asked him to do stuff he's not good at, and then blamed him when the whole team sucked. Meanwhile, Alfonso Soriano is doing his best impression of Vernon Wells and nobody is trying to run him out of town. The last place the Cubs want to be is where they are with Milton Bradley right now. They didn't throw him under the bus. He did it to himself. Again. Its no surprise he did because it isn't the first or second or third time its happened. He's a malcontent. A cancer. A pain in the ass. If the White Sox were to acquire him, I would think KW has lost his mind.

QUOTE (Lemon_44 @ Dec 11, 2009 -> 07:43 PM) let's face it nobody on here can say with certainty if he's the anwer or not. You can't draw any conclusions on his limited time.But, the fact is, he's better than anything we currently have in the leadoff role, which is nothing. Personally, i would like to see what he could do in the leadoff spot for an entire year. I doubt KW gives up anything of major significance for him. Maybe Retherford and lower level pitching prospect with nice potential would do it. Maybe the Yanks take a flier on Linebrink bouncing back.I think there's a decent chance that could happen and the Yankees have gotten rid of Kennedy and Bruney so there's some holes in their bullpen and money is no issue for them. In May and June last season he had 100 AB and hit .330. The rest of the year in about 150 AB his OBP was below .300. I really think people should take a closer look before saying he's the answer at the top of the order for a team that is trying to win a championship. Linebrink has a NTC. I really doubt teams are willing to pick of the freight of his contract.

Everyone does realize Linebrink has a NTC don't they?

Melky is actually younger than Gardner.

I would hope the Sox would try to trade him before non tendering him. He has to have value. Guys with numbers just like his are signing for some decent money. It wouldn't bother me if they dumped him though. While he has been very good most of the time, he does seem to be pitching on borrowed time.

QUOTE (chunk23 @ Dec 11, 2009 -> 02:31 PM) Interesting that one of Putz's incentive clauses is "games finished". Looks like the writing in is on the wall for Jenks. It would seem to me that you are correct, but then again he could be a very cheap solution as a set up guy who takes Dotel's spot and if he regains his form of 2006-7 can take Linebrink's spot. I still think Linebrink comes up big in 2010, and I like Pena better than most. It does seem funny his salary almost doubles if he becomes a closer. It seems to me they have given him the impression he will get a shot. Who knows.

QUOTE (KevinM @ Dec 11, 2009 -> 09:38 AM) DA, you are also dismissing the defensive impact Gardner would have on our lineup. Having a solid defensive outfield would make our good pitching staff even better. The White Sox are going to have to score runs. I understand Beckham will be around a little longer. Its hoped Quentin comes back strong. Its also hoped Rios returns to what he was in 2006-7 and that the past couple seasons were offensive flukes for Teahan. The offense was ranked near the bottom. A lot of the production, Thome, Dye the first half of the year, Pods, are gone. Replacing them with guys like Gardner and Andruw Jones even if a couple of the things we are hoping for come true isn't going to make the White Sox an offensive juggernaut. As I have posted, Gardner wouldn't be a bad guy to have on the roster, but to say he's the regular CF and leadoff hitter is just asking for dissappointment. If he was that guy, NY wouldn't give up the players they did and pay Granderson what they will have to pay if they thought he would be as good as this board thinks he will be. He's a 4th or 5th OF.

QUOTE (League @ Dec 11, 2009 -> 07:15 AM) Well then he replaces what we lost in Getz + Mark Teahan. I like having Becko's bat at 2b instead of Getz and Gardner has a good chance of outperforming Pods next season, so it looks like an upgrade across the board. The White Sox offense wasn't good enough with Pods hitting over .300. Making Gardner the leadoff guy just weakens the White Sox offense. A nice bench player is what he is, but if KW gives up something good to get him, I think he's crazy.

QUOTE (League @ Dec 11, 2009 -> 06:45 AM) Plus defense at a premium position and OBP potential. I said offensively. IMO Getz has as much OBP potential as Gardner. Getz got slammed around here. People said he had no power, wasn't exactly young for a rookie and wouldn't get better. You can say the exact same thing about Gardner. If he is such a stud waiting to happen, why are the Yankees, a team cutting payroll, bringing in expensive pieces to play in front of him? He's not an everyday player. He wouldn't be a bad guy to have off the bench, but leading off every day will make the fire Greg Walker threads grow.