StrangeSox

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 3, 2013 -> 12:07 PM) No one has tried to justify it. That is exactly what I am talking about with weak arguments. Quit making stuff up. Questioning the Berstein is not excusing anything. Oh shut up. Dick is not "questioning Bernstein" here, he's trying to make excuses for Alford's actions. He's trying to tell me his only mistake was trust. I don't even have to bother to find a post a page or two back to quote because he does it right after yours! QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 3, 2013 -> 12:08 PM) I'm not trying to justify it, and as I stated if you asked Alford to give you an honest answer, he would regret having any role in that, but Alford believed his player was being accused of something he didn't do. Hard to believe I'm sure. Only time it's ever happened, I'm sure. If believing someone who turned out to be lying to you makes one a scumbag, everyone is a scumbag. Bulls***. You said his mistake was trusting Pierce. When I called you out on that, you stood by it. No, his major mistake was pressuring the girl to keep quiet. Not that he trusted the player until proven otherwise--I don't think anyone would really give one s*** about that. This is specifically about his actions to cover this up. Regardless of whether or not he believed Pierce or now regrets the incredibly s***ty actions he took is not relevant to your claim that "the only" mistake was trusting Pierce. You only confirm this again with your last line, as if the only reason he's criticized is for believing his player. Even when denying that you're excusing his actions, you can't help but try to excuse his actions.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Apr 3, 2013 -> 11:46 AM) Considering how Bernstein himself treats other people in his professional work, he just isn't the best person to be carrying forth this particular message. He isn't simply reporting this. He is using his forum to obsessively pound on Alford in the face of plenty of other things to report. Fine, that is great, I recognize his right to do so. But he's doing so partially for his own agenda, and folks are simply pointing that out. But other folks like Dick Allen are trying to justify actions taken to silence a rape victim because 'trust'

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 3, 2013 -> 11:53 AM) False accusations, especially college-aged women for that particular crime are pretty common. Nah, but this sort of assumption gets into an entirely different issue which I've intentionally avoided. Yeah, it was a hypothetical to illustrate the absurdity of your argument that the ONLY thing he did wrong was trusting the wrong guy. This is apologia straight from the PSU playbook. Even if he did believe Pierce (because he was also under the false victim-blaming assumption that many of them aren't really victims at all!), it still doesn't come close to excusing his efforts to silence the girl. I guess that means he couldn't possibly cover up for a rapist? Joe Paterno had kids who were little boys once, too, but that didn't stop him and the rest of the PSU apparatus from protecting Sandusky. I know he made an effort to cover up the allegations of a rape. I don't care if he trusted Pierce, he never, ever should do that. It's disgusting that you think trusting the accused justifies using behind-the-scenes pressure to silence an alleged victim.

if you outlaw high capacity magazines, only gay-married cousins in polygamous marraiges with their dogs will have high capacity magazines

QUOTE (ptatc @ Apr 3, 2013 -> 11:36 AM) All of stems from the way Coach K treated HIM at Duke. HE absolutely has hated college coaches since then. HE believes they all have too much power and will do evil things with it. HE was taking shots at NU for hiring Collins because Collins picked Duke over NU. HE will always attack college coaches as much as possible and will not consider any other side. yeah but a lot of them do

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 3, 2013 -> 11:24 AM) Welcome to sports. Dan Bernstein appears to strongly dislike this side of sports and would like to see it exposed and, presumably, eradicated. I share that sentiment. That doesn't excuse Alford's actions or the decisions of schools to ignore past transgressions.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 3, 2013 -> 11:24 AM) Reflexive dismissal of this just based on subject matter isn't exactly a great argument. I know, so why do you keep doing it! People have shown that Bernstein often talks about issues like this and has a personal dislike for Alford. I'd bet he'd do the same thing if Curly (former PSU AD) gets hired by some big-name program somewhere. Your argument appears to be that because Bernstein potentially profits from bringing this story to light via increased ratings, we should view him in a negative light. But that argument proves far too much, condemning anyone who works for pay at any media organization anywhere. Bob Woodward made an entire career off of Watergate. Does that mean we shouldn't trust his Watergate reporting? Or that he's somehow morally suspect there?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 3, 2013 -> 11:22 AM) IMO, yes. He wasn't the sharpest tack in the box. Dumb and immoral. Great hire, UCLA!

Bernstein can't be questioned with the weaksauce arguments you and Dick and bringing or by the excuses for Alford.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 3, 2013 -> 11:20 AM) Honestly, he really did trust people too much. I would bet money he really did believe Pierre. He was an awful judge of character. So we'll go with "dumbest man alive." That still doesn't excuse his immoral actions to get the girl to shut up.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 3, 2013 -> 09:29 AM) Yes it was. Alford: PP, did you rape this girl? PP: No, coach! She's just lying! Alford: Are you sure? PP: Yeah, coach! Alford: Whew! I thought we had a real problem here! I'll just get the christian athlete association to tell this liar to keep her mouth shut. Steve Alford: Moral coward, or dumbest man on the planet? You decide!

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Apr 3, 2013 -> 11:11 AM) It's not hard to be on your "high horse" against sexual abuse. Anyone who has not done abusing of a sexual nature has the right. What the f*** am I reading, here? I mean that he goes into his righteous indignation mode. I don't care and I don't think his concerns are wrong or misplaced.

QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ Apr 3, 2013 -> 11:10 AM) I'll add more - this is all just a cover up http://www.onestepcamp.org/about/board-of-directors/

Yeah but "sports being used to cover up sexual assault" is kinda topical right now.

f***, you're right, I bet Bernstein has covered up a bunch of sexual assaults! edit: you're finding a way to brush aside criticism of Alford and direct it to Bernstein no matter what's brought up. either he cares too much, or not enough, or he's not doing anything, or he's not doing enough with other issues, or he's making money or he's alienating his fanbase, or, scrapping all that, he's probably the real moral monster here! Heads you win, tails Bernstein has a bigger scandal than PSU and the RCC combined.

LOL, yup, Bernstein is likely a scumbag because he calls out known scumbag Alford.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Apr 3, 2013 -> 10:38 AM) Bernstein has always just been so much of an egotistical prick that he veers off what the point should be, in favor of his own personal agendas, which usually is getting the last word in in any debate. It takes away from the show and makes him unbearable at times. I don't think anyone is disagreeing there.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Apr 3, 2013 -> 10:34 AM) That's fine...but maybe he could discuss the overarching issue a bit more...instead of just zeroing in on Alford, who he clearly has a personal issue with outside of this particular transgression. He was stuck on PSU for about a year, he's covered Stuebenville, he's discussed the crap at ND, and now he's discussing Alford because he's in the news. Yeah, it's an excuse for him to break out his hobby-horse, but that doesn't mean it's illegitimate. He's not running some esoteric show on NPR that's going to invite on a bunch of sociologists to discuss the issue, so he's going to use the current hot topic to rant about. Like agreed earlier, it seems like he has something personal with Alford, but this fits a common theme.

I guess you two can reject the entire idea of awareness of an issue being important, have fun!

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 3, 2013 -> 10:28 AM) How much time did Bernstein spend on Ray Lewis? I dunno, he was pretty negative on him pre-SB this year. Not sure what that has to do with whether or not using a media outlet to promote or raise awareness of something counts as "doing something," though.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Apr 3, 2013 -> 10:26 AM) I'm certainly not trying to minimize what Alford did, but don't you think Bernstein is being a bit overdramatic? This kind of s*** goes on constantly with big time college and pro sports and male athletes. All one needs to do is see how glorified high-profile male athletes are in our culture and how they are allowed to literally get away with murder to understand that this incident is a mere blip on the radar of transgressions committed probably almost daily. To act as though what Alford did is somehow unique or unheard of, given the energy Bernstein has devoted to this, certainly makes it seem as though he has another agenda in mind here. Bernstein is always overdramatic, that's his thing. But it seems like this is a consistent issue for him, the abuse of power in the sports world to cover up incidents like this.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 3, 2013 -> 10:22 AM) So outside of talking about Steve Alford, what is he doing to actually fight sexual assault? Is he donating to organizations? Is he volunteering at battered women's shelters? Talking about a news story isn't nearly equal to actually fighting something. Using a large media platform to bring up the issue again and again (Penn State, Stuebenville, Alford) is "doing something"

you guys are both fools

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 3, 2013 -> 10:01 AM) Except he isn't really fighting sexual assault. He is trying to make money off of it. As is every media outlet that ever reports on anything ever. Which is it, is Bernstein ranting for hours about some dumb topic largely irrelevant to the Chicago media base he serves, or is he making $$$ off of bringing this issue up?

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Apr 3, 2013 -> 09:59 AM) can't hate on someone for fighting against sexual assualt, but I do find it a bit weird the way Bernstein keeps going on & on about Alford & the PSU stuff. But hey, he's the one getting paid six figures to talk on the radio for 5 hours, so he can do what he wants. Bernstein gets on his high-horse whenever this side of sports (abuse, sexual or otherwise, that gets covered up) rears its head.