StrangeSox

There were numerous 'moral' justifications for slavery along the lines of "it's better for them." It was referred to as the Domestic Institution. It's all part of the same "white man's burden" strain of thought and you can still find traces of it today in the "well, the descendants of the slaves were better off in the long run, so maybe it wasn't so bad!" excuses. Robin explains his argument above that comment, it's linked in my earlier first post. He overreaches in some regards, but I don't think he does in that one. What was to be done with emancipated slaves was a genuine dilemma in a white supremacist society. You could not (coherently) argue that they were equal human beings that should not suffer under slavery while turning around and forcibly denying them the rest of their rights. But, as Wiencek explains in his original Smithsonian article, Jefferson wasn't even really that opposed to slavery and grew increasingly less so as time went on. I don't know that Jefferson was "publicly" attached to Sally Hemings*. It's still not known for sure that Jefferson fathered children on this slave, though it is likely and the most plausible scenario. It's not particularly odd for him to have been fearful of blacks because he lived with them as owned property to which he claimed complete and total control. But Robin isn't claiming, as far as I can read it, that Jefferson was "terrified," but that he couldn't imagine a functional society composed of whites and free blacks. Jefferson doesn't seem to be expressing a fear of retaliation against former masters but of a larger collapse. *Hemings was also 3/4's anglo fwiw

Sorry, I just happened to have read Frederick Douglass's collective works last week so I'm a bit touchy on the subject.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Dec 3, 2012 -> 11:18 AM) That's because he couldn't fathom that the slaves would stick around. He thought as soon as they were freed they'd head back to Africa. That was a common way of thinking that even Lincoln shared and discussed as a possibility. Yeah, Lincoln proposed colonization. But he didn't believe they'd leave of their own accord AFAIK. From Corey Robin, in the comments: GMAFB. Jefferson's rationalization for his continued participation in and support of a monstrous institution is not in any way similar to the "current liberal mindset" that seeks to correct for the centuries of injustices perpetrated by men like Jefferson. eta: your framing is interesting as well, as if minorities themselves aren't liberal and don't advocate for and support those policies.

FWIW a few states do have inheritance taxes, e.g. Iowa. Inheritance taxes and estate taxes aren't the same thing.

A couple of those posts specifically rejected that "man of his times" defense, though. He really didn't seem to think slavery should be abolished and worried greatly about a post-slavery, mixed-race society.

What's the correct policy?

One-day sales numbers don't really tell you much. Black Friday sales don't correlate all that strongly with the economy as a whole. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-11-28/b...-and-irrelevant

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Oct 10, 2012 -> 02:41 PM) The Smithsonian has an excellent piece entitled "The Dark Side of Thomas Jefferson" There's been a bit more surrounding Wiencek's original Smithsonian article on Jefferson's history with slavery. First, there's Wiencek responding to his critics: Then this NYT op-ed Monster of Monticello attacked Wiencek's arguments from the other side, saying that he wasn't critical enough of Jefferson, that he didn't come to accept slavery reluctantly but did so early and enthusiatically: David Post, over at Volokh, made this rather unfortunate post in response: Why Don’t People Get It About Jefferson and Slavery? which set off a large amount of criticism for the callousness of the "so what" question: Thomas Jefferson: American Fascist? (Corey Robin) examines the origins of "race domination--of white supremacy" and traces them back, at least partially, to Jefferson's writings in Notes on the State of Virginia. There are some really abhorrent quotes in there, even if I can't agree 100% with Robin's line of argument. Scott Lemiux questions the pretty incredible claim from Post that few people did more than Jefferson to eliminate slavery by noting: Ta-Nehisi Coates has two response. One, "Slavery Is A Love Song," is a short dismissal of Post that contains a powerful letter from one former slave to another. The two had been married but were separated when one of them was sold. the second is a refutation of the argument that Jefferson was merely "a man of his times"

Yeah, let's remember about the level we're talking about here. Estate taxes hit very, very few estates. Preventing the accumulation of generational unearned wealth is going to be a net positive.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 1, 2012 -> 03:54 PM) Which is funny, because the whole point is to take it and give it to someone else, and then call it "fair". idk about most government spending be direct transfers like that

QUOTE (farmteam @ Dec 1, 2012 -> 04:24 PM) Do you apply this logic to spendthrift clauses in trusts? EDIT: Legitimately curious, not trying to be a jerk. legitimately don't know what this is!

Almost every dollar is taxed more than once. I see inheritance as nothing more than another income source. It wasn't your money.

Depends on the union, of course.

I was actually supposed to be there again next week

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Nov 28, 2012 -> 01:49 PM) Then why is this fact relevant? What?

Yeah that's no good. Honestly i wouldn't be surprised if one or both of those units never comes back online.

f*** unions for not eagerly joining the race to the bottom

he took off from about 2-3 feet inside the FT line

^American views of labor in a nutshell

Bunch of black teens in a car playing music too loudly get shot at by a middle-aged white dude. It's not exactly going out on a limb to draw that inference.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 27, 2012 -> 05:20 PM) The scale of your anti-union complaint there seems incredibly tiny compared to the scale of the hole Hostess had dug for itself...as well as the scale of concessions their Union had already made (particularly if you consider the hundred million or so in missed pension payments). The pension obligations were significant. Seven of the top eight creditors were pensions. That doesn't excuse the mismanagement, though.

this one is for Reddy: Did Sandy save Occupy? The protest movement's disaster-relief efforts have helped it connect with the “99 percent” in new, meaningful ways

There was a modern-day Triangle Shirtwaist Fire in Bangladesh. Right down to no fire extinguishers, locked fire exits and women jumping to their deaths.

Another black teen in Florida gets shot for being black wtg, Florida