iamshack
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Posts posted by iamshack
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2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:
How do you know they didn’t? Does Morosi get real time info from every single GM?
How does anyone know it means Machado has moved on, as opposed to it being leverage in negotiations with the Sox?
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1 minute ago, GreenSox said:
Tearing down and rebuilding are 2 distinct tasks. Ed Wade conducted much of the Astros tear-down; Luhnow rebuilt them.
Hahn's tear down was satisfactory.
But I saw how he rebuilt from 2014-2016; his moves in this rebuild, minor so far as they may be, are of similar philosophy. Still behind in analytics. We'll see.Which transactions did Ed Wade make that were of the significance of Hahn’s trades of Sale/Eaton/Quintana?
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5 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:
But it does suggest the Sox are out on Machado.
How do you know it doesn’t mean Lozano is trying to push up their number/years?
Let’s say hypothetically the Yankees are unwilling to make a competitive offer, and Machado doesn’t have a particular interest in playing for Philadelphia.
What is Dan Lozano going to do?
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1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:
How do you define irresponsible? Is it the difference between paying $350 million for a player over 10 years or $400 million for that player? Or $425? I don't define that extra $7.25 million per year as irresponsible, I define that as less than the value of one Alex Colome or Ivan Nova or Yonder Alonso. I would define having a limit too low to actually sign one of these guys, and instead being stuck in the middle part of the free agent market forever as being far less responsible.
The Free Agent market is inherently irresponsible, but if we're going to be on it - the one area where we haven't tried and failed is the absolute top of the market. We set ourselves up to be players there...to dip our toes in the water and then run away in panic to go back to what we already know does not work...that would be the least responsible thing we can do.
I actually tend to agree with you on most of this.
From what I understand, we are not doing any of what you describe in the second paragraph.
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1 minute ago, GreenSox said:
I think that's what most people want. Don't see a lot of upvoting of the rumored Enarnacion interest or other short term fantasy-land moves.
No, but there is a narrative which continues to push for Hahn and KW to be fired mid-rebuild.
Whether you agree with it or not, it’s foolhardy to allow someone to complete some of the most significant transactions in your history and then not allow them to reconstruct the organization because there are some very customary bumps in the road.
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4 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:
I would applaud them for landing either of them as they would have successfully put together a plan to create available funds during the big year for free agents and then successfully came forward, understood the market, and used their resources as best they could. I would consider it a major accomplishment.
I would consider failing to land either of them to be yet another on the list of reasons to think we have the worst front office in baseball. To clear space for elite free agents and then declare that you're going after elite free agents and in the end be stuck unable to sign elite free agents...that should be just plain embarrassing.
See, they have accomplished some of the things you would applaud them for in your first paragraph already. They have created the payroll space, they have clearly understood the market, and they are attempting to use their resources in an aggressive, yet responsible way.
What if actually landing the player(s) required using their resources in an irresponsible fashion? Would you still consider it “embarrassing” if they failed to land the player(s) if that was the case?
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Just now, caulfield12 said:
Even though odds are high that a deal like that would come to be regretted later, getting a contract signed with one of those two is the only measure of success that 95% of Sox fans are going to care about.
I don’t really care what 95% of fans care about.
Rick and Kenny should have the opportunity to see through what they are building. If you didn’t believe that, you should have fired them and brought in someone else to dismantle the mlb team after the ‘16 season.
Nearly everything they’ve done since the Chris Sale trade has been to put this franchise in a position to sustainably compete, and despite some of the early returns on those moves being frustrating, if you look at the Astros and Cubs rebuilds, it was never about the success of a few guys, but instead, the success of the plan.
We need to allow the plan to play out, and not bail because Lucas Giolito or Yoan Moncada are a bit frustrating in their first full seasons.
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2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:
As long as the last few dregs of humanity who care about the White Sox agree that we need to evaluate RH and company based on those offers, I'm ok with that.
So let’s say the Sox land one or even both of these guys.
How does one evaluate Rick Hahn and Co versus if they land neither?
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2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:
I wonder if all the big name insiders are enjoying their New Year’s vacation early, because there’s still no one reporting on this.
Pretty Sure Rosenthal is in the Dominican or something.
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1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:
Just so I make sure which part of that statement you're aiming at - you're saying the White Sox went into this with a spending limit and were willing to miss both of those guys if they were outbid beyond that limit, and those limits are at values that it's entirely plausible another team will beat?
No. I’m saying this is not an exercise in futility, by any means. I’m honestly not sure what the Sox’ thinking is regarding where they need to be regarding other clubs, particularly those which might have certain advantages other than $. To be honest, what they think doesn’t matter. All that matters is whether they have offers on the table good enough to entice the player to sign with them.
And they do.
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2 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:
Based on what?
Based on things I have been told from people who have reason to know.
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1 minute ago, caulfield12 said:
Unless it comes out that we were actually willing to offer at least 15% more than the Yankees, this was always an exercise in futility.
Feel a bit sorry for Alonso, actually.
This is not the case.
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Just now, caulfield12 said:
In the end, they’re still in risk mitigation mode. It isn’t going to placate the fans much...not nearly as much as the rebuild going more positively than negatively.
It’s the equivalent of cheering for ND or Oklahoma today. Sure, there’s a 3-5% chance.
I don’t follow.
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1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:
Without a major addition like one of these guys to fill in the talent gap, I find this organization's future to be very hazy given the way the 2018 season went. The fog could clear next year, but it could also turn into a continuing storm.
And that is your perspective. One that is certainly understandable. However, if you truly believe that, signing one or even both of these guys isn’t going to matter.
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Just now, Balta1701 said:
If that was the case and the White Sox let their franchise get hung out to dry and used up as a bargaining chip with no actual hope of success, that should also reflect on the quality of white sox operations and decision making.
They are in the position they are in. You want to go down the road of saying “they should have had the org in a more attractive position than to rely just on bribery,” that is your prerogative.
There are a significant number of paths this organization can take to sustainable competitiveness, something that simply was not the case 2 years ago. As things currently stand, even if the Sox do strikeout on both of these guys, they are in a FAR better position to land at least one of them than sane person would have expected even 6 months ago. Should they miss, the timeline certainly gets pushed back a bit, but the future is still extremely bright.
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Just now, soxfan2014 said:
I don't think Senzel gets moved for anything less than a front of the rotation arm with at least 3 years of control.
It would for sure take a boatload.
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Just now, GreatScott82 said:
Bruce Levine said this morning on his “Inside the Clubhouse” show that Moncada will be the starting 3b for the White Sox. They are going to move Sanchez back to 2B until Madrigal is ready. To me that tells me that many of the local media members are pretty confident MM will sign elsewhere. It looks like their big moves have already been made. Alonso, McCain and Nova. Yay! From 62 wins to 68? Or is 68 wins a reach?
You are going to believe Bruce?
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2 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:
I just don’t think the White Sox are in a position to play that game. If they don’t know it is going to cost them more than it would the Yankees, they were screwed from the get go. If they want one of these guys they are going to have to blow away the competition, not try to nickel and dime them.
When JR signed Belle he asked them what it was going to take. He then agreed. Here it is a bit more, so there could be some back and forth, but not nearly as much as there could be if they actually were a desirable destination.
No one is claiming they don’t know it’s going to cost them more than the Yankees.
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3 minutes ago, shipps said:
I feel like the Sox are going to be dead set on making big splash this off season whatever means necessary. If they strike out on these guys that means there will be a trade that hauls out young talent.
Is a trade for Arenado with the thought of signing him a possibility as plan b?
Nope. If they were going to try and trade for someone, I think it would likely be for someone with significant control. Very doubtful that he is available, but perhaps someone like Senzel.
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Just now, Dick Allen said:
He would do it for the financial savings. But what does paying EE a minimum $25 million do for the White Sox?
and wouldn’t trading Alonso mean Machado isn’t coming?
Hey, I said the entire premise was ridiculous, but if you are going to put any stock in Morosi’s info, wouldn’t it be as a way of trying to hedge against Lozano coming back to the well?
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1 minute ago, fathom said:
But wouldn’t it be wiser in this situation to be linked to guys that would actually impact them, such as Moustakas or Pollock (assuming you’re referring to the big 2)
I think the entire premise is ridiculous, but can anyone really rule out Jerry Dipoto trading Edwin Encarnacion for Yonder Alonso +?
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4 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:
Because they have that position filled, one by Machado’s brother in law, and Encarnacion is pretty much a DH only, owed a minimum $25 million, 35 years old, coming off a down year. And Morosi, and maybe that is also inaccurate, made it seem like the Sox were doing a bit more that checking in on him. And it comes out the same day of the other report. If everything that comes out is bullshit, how do we know the reports of the White Sox really being a player for theses guys and not the typical also rans they normally are, aren’t bullshit?
I think the Sox are sitting around waiting on a few guys that are entertaining some other options and maybe are letting one of them know there are contingencies in play should a particular agent want to continue to drive their price up.
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3 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:
I am sure before it becomes official, Manny is going to have to take a physical, probably in NY, maybe in Tampa. Who knows what his schedule is like.for all we know, he might be on vacation right now. There are many reasons it could be delayed. Obviously one could be that the report is fake. But the White Sox going after Encarnacion sends a signal that something has changed.
Does it? Why wouldn’t they just check in on him for due diligence reasons?
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1 minute ago, Dick Allen said:
They are talking about a press conference on Jan.7.
Of everyone on this board, I know you are the most invested in at least one of these guys being a White Sox. I think you even thought both. It might be time to at least start preparing for the worst.
Nah
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Machado: Update - Manny, do you officially like us?
in Pale Hose Talk
Posted
You think Hahn is going to come out of the gates and make his final offer first?
Secondly, I already said the premise was ridiculous, but so is the premise that they would be interested because Machado had moved on already.