iamshack

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Jan 10, 2013 -> 03:19 PM) I'm also guessing not many of us in here have a mom who was 15 when she had a baby and forced to live below the poverty line as a single mom, working multiple jobs. Sqwert, your heart really is in the right place...but that doesn't make our opinions, or common sense, irrelevant to this discussion. Is it your opinion that only those in poverty should be able to have this discussion?

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 10, 2013 -> 03:25 PM) It kinda sucks when you guys make awful arguments and can't even consider having a discussion about or even acknowledge that existence of culture and privilege, yeah. You started it off by taking my statement that those who cannot provide for offspring probably shouldn't have offspring into a complete and utter hatred of all those before, now, or future people in poverty.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 10, 2013 -> 03:18 PM) I don't live in Lincoln Park, but I appreciate that you use stereotypes in all aspects of your life. Congrats. At least you are consistent. So what terrible ghetto do you live in, since you obviously aren't so ignorant as the rest of the affluent white people sharing their opinions here?

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 10, 2013 -> 03:14 PM) They found ways to not have to do that and to make it a lot easier. If you make it difficult to walk to the store, few people will walk. I really don't get why you guys are having such a hard time accepting cultural and social factors that go into general health and fitness levels. I think you've actually hit on a really, really good point here. Worrying about your health 10, 20, 30 years from now is a luxury. It's a huge luxury most people haven't had throughout history and hundreds of millions if not billions still don't have. You're worried about surviving until tomorrow or until next week, worried about paying the bills due Friday and not those due at the end of the month. Planning for the future is a luxury for people who don't have to struggle so hard just to get by in the present. Well, I am sure I will get accused of harboring some horrible stereotypes with this anecdote too, but I was watching a show on Nat Geo about drug addicts in Las Vegas and they were showing the lives of some of these folks and the lengths they will go to score drugs. Many of them live in the sewers and in tunnels but spend $2500/mo on heroin. Many of them panhandle all day, and make $50-100 in 4-6 hours and then immediately go spend the money on crack. Many people in poverty are not necessarily there by chance, but they are there because they have some issue(s) which industrialized civilization is not particularly good at helping them overcome. Now in the past, these folks would probably have either not developed these issues (because they didn't have the luxury of developing them) or they died unnoticed. Now, because of social welfare, many of them can eek by for 30-60 years and they are noticed. But the point is, they find where to get drugs and they go to great lengths to get drugs because drugs are very important to them. However, quality nutrition, is not. I don't think much of this can be blamed on the food desert or the unavailability of quality food in general, but moreso on other deeper issues which poor nutrition is very symptomatic of.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 10, 2013 -> 03:15 PM) Nobody has said this bulls***. I can't believe you guys are actually incapable of understanding the concepts of "culture" and "social pressures and influences." Kinda sucks when we play that game with you, doesn't it?

QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 10, 2013 -> 03:13 PM) I assure you, that I would much rather be considered condescending by iamshack at soxtalk, then actually hold in my heart these disgusting stereotypes thrown out in this thread. Not sure why you spend so much time here amongst me and the others harboring all the disgusting stereotypes than out on the tough streets of Lincoln Park with all your brethren in the soup kitchens.

QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ Jan 10, 2013 -> 03:10 PM) This thread makes me hungry...though for what, I'm not sure. What's the opportunity cost of a bowl of cereal? Depends what your billable rate is, my friend.

QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Jan 10, 2013 -> 03:09 PM) You're white and have a job, you just don't get it shack. These things make you evil, no matter what else you do. And I am not allowed to have an opinion either, because I have no perspective of "the real world."

And just another point, I don't think America's obesity epidemic is just made up of those in poverty. Many affluent people make the same silly or irresponsible decisions as those in poverty.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 10, 2013 -> 03:04 PM) They weren't healthy. They starved. Oh, sorry, I shouldn't correct you for fear of being condescending. Why don't you tell me some large generalizations about how poor people are stupid and lazy, please. I wouldn't mean to offend you. You are condescending to just about everyone, and trust me, I'm not near alone in making this observation. And you didn't correct anyone. You may have a high level of understanding about certain things, but sports, and very obviously nutrition, are not among them.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 10, 2013 -> 03:00 PM) No, that's not what I'm doing. I'm saying that judging them from your perspective far-removed from poverty is unfair because you're probably ignorant of what their lives are like. And you are doing just the opposite. You are soooo afraid of being accused of doing what you are accusing me of doing that you are belittling them to the point of being sub-human and incapable of any rational thought whatsoever.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 10, 2013 -> 02:58 PM) Suburban sprawl and the way neighborhoods/subdivisions are laid out is actually a factor that people look into. It's very practical to walk down the street to any number of stores in a lot of urban neighborhoods. For me, it'd be about a two mile walk through dumb twisting subdivision roads and then down a main throughway to get to the store. Sprawling strip malls mean maybe you hit up one or two stores, but then you get in and drive a block down to the other end of the gigantic parking lot. City planning can make things more difficult to walk/bike or not, and that's going to influence your choices! Do you not realize there was a time in human history when stores did not exist? When people actually had to hunt and gather their food? That they had to grow their food? Good thing they didn't all just eat the poisonous plant that was close to their cave... I get the point, sometimes you do some things out of convenience...but if you really give a s*** about your health, you put in the extra effort. A larger point is that those in poverty just don't think about 10, 20, 30 years from now. They don't know that they'll even live that long...they just want to feed themselves today. And that is a symptom of poverty, not of a "food desert."

QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 10, 2013 -> 02:46 PM) I love in a thread where people are confused that cheese is fattening and they don't need to count calories, they have the self will to moderate, are the same people saying everyone elses choices are so dumb! And that was my answer to all of this! Government meals! pat yourself on the back russ! Is there going to be a nice soxtalk meetup soon where we can all b**** about how we can't grab our secretaries asses, reverse-racism and how stupid and lazy poor people are? let me know! Honestly? Do you think all foods that have animal fats in them are bad? Do you realize that animal fats actually help you digest your food more easily, Mr Know-it-all? And how did our ancestors EVER MANAGE to stay healthy without knowing the caloric values of EVERYTHING they ate? How did they know when to stop eating? How did they not explode because they ate too much of that goat they slaughtered? GMAFB, Mr. Smarty pants...if EVER there was a person on soxtalk who was self-righteous, it was you.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 10, 2013 -> 02:44 PM) I'm going to take the last part first and this is going to be a tangent from diet or health or w/e Thanks for the straw-man, but that's not actually the "liberal" position and it certainly isn't mine! But look at this: Look at that last sentence, then step it back a generation. That is exactly, exactly what I'm saying here. Growing up in poverty gives any number of huge disadvantages. One of the strongest lines from the link, to me, was "Being poor is having to live with choices you didn’t know you made when you were 14 years old." So these people you're telling are irresponsible and ignorant today? Maybe lazy, too? Aside from a whole lot of people in poverty actually busting their ass every day literally just to survive the next month, week or day, these are the same people you're talking about in all caps above. The people who weren't in a great position from the start, the people with a whole hell of a lot less room for error than you or I had. People who grew up around more crime and terrible schools. People that didn't grow up in a household that valued education, people that didn't grow up knowing anyone that successfully navigated the maze that student loans and college applications can be. People who worked a decent job earning a living, but got sick, missed work, lost their job, lost their car and lost their place to live. People, good people, no different from any of us here, who struggle and sacrifice probably more than a lot of us ever have, maybe ever will. People who make some bad choices, just like we do. People who aren't perfect, are lazy sometimes, are ignorant or irresponsible other times, just like us. Poverty is a lot of things, but it isn't a moral failing, something inflicted on people for being bad or worse than we are. Yeah, we could write tomes sympathetic to the plight of those in poverty. What you are reducing them to is a state of completely lacking of any knowledge about how their bodies work, how they feel, how to get produce out of a grocery store instead of buying the Big Mac at McDonalds. You're basically equating them to being about as intelligent as some of the less intelligent animal species. They are in poverty. They are not unable to have basic thought.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 10, 2013 -> 02:38 PM) So, the answer to solving the obesity epidemic is shouting at poor people to stop being stupid and decide to stop being poor. Can someone draft this up so I can send it to Congress? At which point did we begin discussing answers to the obesity epidemic? Primarily, this has been a discussion about the current eating habits of those in poverty in their "food desert."

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Jan 10, 2013 -> 02:32 PM) It's amazing how many members of this site have pulled themselves up from their bootstraps. More than you would think...more than you would think. Being successful is not always a result of having everything handed to you, believe it or not. Sometimes hard work and discipline actually pays off...and that is nothing I will feel ashamed about. I do not force my ways on anyone else, but excusing those that are either less fortunate or have made poor decisions from any responsibility whatsoever and treating them basically as rats in a maze does not help the situation either.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 10, 2013 -> 02:21 PM) go read this instead: http://whatever.scalzi.com/2005/09/03/being-poor/ Seriously? I am quite sympathetic of the plight of those less-fortunate than I am. However, pulling up websites which "really hit home" about "the hard reality" of actually being poor do not make the decisions that have caused many people in poverty to be where they are today or continue to stay less irresponsible or ignorant. It doesn't make their problems magically go away, either. Honestly, if you do not understand how, or you do not know if you will be able to provide basic nutrition to your offspring, YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE THEM. And if you do anyways, THEY WILL PROBABLY NOT BE PARTICULARLY HEALTHY OR BE IN A GREAT POSITION TO OVERCOME THE POSITION IN WHICH YOU HAVE PUT THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE. I fall on the liberal side of things on many, many issues. But this ultra-left nonsense which ultimately places human beings in a position of taking absolutely no responsibility for themselves or their offspring and blaming EVERYTHING on "the world" or the "food desert" or whatever other pathetic liberal constructs you want to come up with is more of an insult to these people than the one you accuse me of levying. Far more.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Jan 10, 2013 -> 02:17 PM) Leave it to a group of affluent white people in here to tell people how easy it is to eat healthy and cook at home. "If I could do it I don't see why everyone else can't.“ Sqwert, are you saying that basic produce is not available to non-affluent white people?

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 10, 2013 -> 02:21 PM) yes, this is literally what you said: go read this instead: http://whatever.scalzi.com/2005/09/03/being-poor/ And how does that equate to "all people in poverty are lazy and ignorant"?

QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 10, 2013 -> 02:16 PM) Sorry I meant to say that cheese is high in calories and unless you are eating a cheese platter it's a relatively easy thing to minimize. Remove it from your burgers and burritos and that adds up over the years. But in and of itself, it is not a bad food. Cheese is high in calcium and thus good for bones and teeth, it contains many valuable nutrients, and it also may help prevent cancer.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jan 10, 2013 -> 02:13 PM) Funny that you throw insults but you failed to even understand the basic concept of my argument. To make it simpler. Free time > work time And maybe Ill die at 70, maybe Ill die at 100, maybe Ill die tomorrow. I dont have enough time in the day to pass judgment about how other people want to live there life. If you can live off $3 bell pepper slices, good for you. Thats not how I live, that is not how I want to live, and quite frankly it doesnt matter whether my life expectancy is 20, 27 or 50000, Id rather live my life they way I wanted. Which goes back to the stupidity of this entire thread/article. As Americans we have the freedom to eat healthy or not eat healthy. We make our choices, we live with them. The point you seemingly are missing is that people keep arguing about money, as if having money will automatically cause you to make good decisions. Having money, not having money, its still about the person and their level of responsibility. No idea where you are even going with this. And I didn't ask you to live life the way I do. This is a thread about how shockingly low the life expectancy is in America presently. You've come in here and constantly told us all how you wish to die at 50 and that you enjoy 'living in the fast lane." We're happy for you. No idea where you are even going with this.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 10, 2013 -> 02:12 PM) Also f*** this bulls*** of assuming anyone in poverty is "knocking up 3 different women with 2 kids each" and they're all lazy, irresponsible people. And that is really what I posted.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 10, 2013 -> 02:10 PM) Or (or maybe additionally) because s*** food is widely and easily available pretty much everywhere you go, is relatively cheap, tastes good (lots of sugars and salts) and is constantly advertised and reinforced. Moralizing the choices like that generally really does not help if you're looking for cultural changes. People tend to resent being told they're dumb, lazy assholes. I'm not running for President...and that doesn't make it any less true.

The majority of you guys are being absolutely f***tarded right now. Badger, we don't care how many drugs you've taken or currently subject your ($100/hr) mind to. Enough of this Bill Maher I want to brag about how much weed I smoke. And seriously, if you view every hour of your day as a potential billable hour lost, come talk to me when you're 70 and you can't hardly walk and you have 6 months to live and won't see your granddaughter get married and see how much those hours are worth then because you didn't want to lose a billable hour making a reasonable dinner. SS, you are starting to sound like Balta and his cell phone argument with this "food desert" of yours. Maybe if you don't know where to find produce, or are too lazy to go get it, you should have thought about that before you decided to go knock up 3 different women with 2 kids each. At some point people have to take some damn responsibility for their actions. Finding food used to take hours or even days for our ancestors. Good thing they didn't just decide it was too much hassle for them to bother eating in their "food desert." Food was much, much more expensive for our more recent ancestors, such as our grandparents and great grandparents. Good thing they worked hard and saved enough room in their budget to eat. Food is cheaper and more abundant now than at any time in human history. The reason the vast, vast majority of people in this country eat like s*** is because they are ignorant, lazy, undisciplined and irresponsible. For the entire summer for dinner, almost every night, I ate 1 bell pepper, 1 tomato, 1/2 cucumber, and a few ounces of mozzarella cheese. Seasoned with salt and pepper. That cost me maybe $3? For a healthy meal. Took me 2 minutes to prepare. Almost anyone could do this...basic produce is available. A knife is not expensive. It takes almost no time. BMags, I don't know what you have against cheese.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 10, 2013 -> 11:20 AM) While a lot of this is true, weight does matter at some point. And it doesn't come down to working out, people need to count how much they are putting into their bodies. And by and large, when people do this they tend to make healthy choices. But to be healthy, cut down on red meat and meat in general per week. Cut down on cheese. Cut down on butter in prep. At that point you are doing good despite size. I disagree personally with going about things in this manner, but people should do what works for them. My personal philosophy is not to worry so much about natural foods like cheese and butter or even red meat, but just to use common sense and moderation. I don't buy into the idea that it is more healthy to eat processed "low fat" versions of food instead of their natural but more fatty counterparts. Just use common sense and don't eat a crapload of it. I don't count calories, but I have a general understanding of what is a good healthy meal, and what is not. I try to eat as large a variety of fruits and vegetables as I can, and I do usually stick with white meats as opposed to red meats. But I also treat myself to pizza or some chocolate or some salty fritos from time to time if I want them, because that keeps me sane. In the meantime, I try to stay active - I use the stairs at work instead of the elevator (granted, my building is only 4 floors tall, not 40), I participate in pickup football and basketball games with guys from work. I try to workout 2-3 times a week most weeks but ALWAYS at least once a week. It really doesn't have to be that difficult. It can be as easy as using common sense and moderation. And if you feel good and stay active and don't eat a bunch of processed garbage, I don't really think weight is important.