iamshack

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 02:22 PM) No one is doing that. Please stop lying about what others are saying. In the immediate reaction to a scandal, the most well-known names will get the most attention. This isn't surprising or unique or even wrong. BS. This has been going on for 4 days now. If you honestly believe PSU forced the DA and the local police to drop a clear confession of molestation, and then allow a predator to continue to rape children, in order to protect their football program, Paterno better not be the center of discussion unless there is evidence that he had something to do with it.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 02:22 PM) I find the people who are more on the "defending" side are those that most frequently find themselves disagreeing with the majority. Why don't you just type what you really mean?

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 02:22 PM) I dont see where he is getting "the majority of the blame" in his statements. The subject that you are arguing is Joe Paterno and he responded on the same subject. Paterno is getting the lion's share of the publicity here. Which has all been negative, in case you haven't noticed. That either equals or is even worse than receiving the blame.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 02:17 PM) Meanwhile, a 70 year old football coach failed to act repeatedly in response to credible allegations of child rape happening in his facilities, and the fact that the media is being hard on him 10 years later is your biggest concern. Do you honestly read what you're typing? You're placing the majority of the blame on an elderly man, who by all accounts, has led an exemplary life and been an exemplary person, instead of the school administrators, the President of the University, the molester himself, the local law enforcement, and the District Attorney. You're accusing the University of manipulating our justice system in order to allow a pedophile and rapist to go free, IN ORDER TO PROTECT A FOOTBALL PROGRAM, and Joe Paterno is the biggest story here? GMAFB.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 02:14 PM) Then he should have acted stronger in 2002 and saved 50% of this guy's victims from being raped. Not a whole lot of people are disputing that, himself included. Meanwhile, you're accusing the University of forcing the DA not to prosecute a child rape and an 80 year old football coach is your biggest concern.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 01:10 PM) And he's also receiving 100% of the defenses. Because it's pretty clear he shouldn't be representing 95% of the media coverage here.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 01:07 PM) It at least encompasses the university administration who have in fact been just recently charged for the cover up, and it sure as hell is hard to explain how the police/DA made the choices they made a decade ago if the answer isn't "Penn State Football". On that last part, I'd await further investigation, and if I were a voter in that district, I'd be giving my representatives Hell to demand that investigation happen. And yet Joe Paterno is receiving 95% of the media coverage here.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 01:03 PM) Because they had covered up those gross failures until the Grand Jury report was released? And because having him coach another game with those failures known would have been another slap in the face of the university. Based on those reports, if firing him over this issue was possible in 2003, then it should have been done. But that's the cover up for you. So now there is a cover up which goes as far as the local police and the DA, correct?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 12:50 PM) You know what really frustrates me about this reply? There are probably what, 10 people in this thread who think PSU did the exact right thing by dumping him immediately like they did last night. How many of those 10 are convinced solely by the harsh media coverage? Because if you can't say that the people here who think that paterno and the admins got exactly what they deserved are getting their outrage from the media, then that means there's plenty of outrage to go around. Than why is he getting fired now, Balta? When the media has picked up the story and made it almost all about Joe Paterno instead of Jerry Sandusky? Why did not they not fire before for all these gross incompetencies?

And Milk, I'm still waiting to hear what you're implying by saying you would expect those "defending" Paterno to be the ones to do so...

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 12:39 PM) And I respectfully disagree with you. The media coverage is not provoking the outrage. The outrage is a direct effect of the fact that a major university covered up a child rapist in their midst, because he happened to be a sports coach. That would get top billing any day of the week. I've gone over this several times now, so I am not going to waste the time to reiterate it again for your benefit. Go back and read.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 12:34 PM) Most coaches do. And I posted it several pages back. It's a conduct rule, and could easily be invoked in this situation. Yeah, good luck with the conduct rule...the vague, subjective s*** that is just redundant of the conduct code doesn't tend to hold up well in court. And he's not most coaches, btw. What he might be more vulnerable to would be a negligence charge.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 12:34 PM) Seriously, it's not the "Media coverage" that has made the public backlash strong here. With regards to Paterno? I respectfully disagree.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 12:31 PM) So if he has a stipulation in his contract the he can be terminated if he violates an NCAA rule, and then he violates a rule, and still can't be fired? Yes. I highly doubt he has such a stipulation though What's the NCAA rule you keep referring to, anyways?

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 12:08 PM) Is that a yes or no? He violated his contract with his code of conduct violation and also violated an NCAA rule which also violates his contract. Again, Rock, exculpatory clauses like that mean jack s*** in court. An organization cannot just make up an incredibly subjective rule such as the "code of conduct" rule involved here and use it to fire whomever they want. Most states are not right to work states. Employers can fire most employees for nearly anything. But the second they give you a contract, they are legally binded to follow the terms of that contract, unless the employee breaches it. In this instance, Paterno informed his superiors of an incident he was told about. Most legal commentators will tell you that by doing that, he not only did what was expected of him legally, but also to comply with the terms of his contract. PSU is firing him here because it simply must be done. And I agree. This story has gotten so big and the public backlash is so strong (in part because of the media coverage in regards to Paterno), that they have no other choice but to sacrifice him, even if it means settling with him afterwards for their illegal termination.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 12:59 PM) So you are saying there weren't grounds for termination? As of right now, if he truly wanted to take PSU to court, my guess is they would settle with him for every penny he is owed.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 12:51 PM) Court for what? I said grounds for termination, that's all. Is he suing for his job back or something? He sure could, yes. He has a contract. Your employer could fire you for anything they want. That doesn't mean it would stand up.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 12:34 PM) For being such a smart lawyer he fails to see that we aren't discussing guilt during a criminal trial, but only the grounds for termination of an employee. Technically he violated the PSU employee code of conduct and also an NCAA violation. But hey, not everyone can be a lawyer. Just to bring this to your attention, the employee code of conduct is just a bs exculpatory clause that means jack s*** in court. I'm not sure of the NCAA violation because I forgot which it was, but the employee code is nonsense. I'm not arguing that he shouldn't be fired, however.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 10:30 AM) One thing I can say is that I'm not surprised at all by the posters defending Paterno and attacking the decision to fire him. It's the exact posters I would have suspected would do so. What exactly is this supposed to mean? What are you trying to imply? There is basically one person here arguing against the firing of Paterno, and that is SB, and he's just pimping his legal knowledge. Some of of have pointed out the media presentation is skewed and bs, some of us have pointed out that the focus should remain on Sandusky and not 95% on Paterno. Some of us have pointed out that the person who witnessed the crime, the Administration, the President of the University, the campus police, the local police, the charity and its' board, the DA...were ALL in a much better position to handle this situation than Joe Paterno was. Much more qualified and with much more authority. Yes, Joe Paterno, at one time anyways, may have been the most powerful member of the University's FOOTBALL program. NOT the University. Stop confusing the two. To compare Joe Paterno to the freaking President of the University, in regards to their culpability is ridiculous. To compare Joe Paterno to the local police and the DA, in terms of culpability, is ridiculous. Yes, Paterno should have done more, and he should be fired. I think everyone here but SB has admitted those two things. But the media is using Paterno as a lightning rod here, and to me, it's wrong. But I don't take kindly to some kind of implication by you, Milk, even if I am not even sure what the hell you're trying to imply.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 04:01 PM) As in "he both feels one way and another". Ahh, gotcha.

QUOTE (Tex @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 03:57 PM) GA student didn't report it to the police GA student's dad, didn't report it to the police What exactly did he say had happened in 2002? I'm still not clear on that point. I'm kind of shocked that this many people heard the Sandusky was raping a 10 year old in the shower and none of them reported it. That doesn't seem possible. If that's the case, why the hell isn't the GA arrested for failing to report a crime to the police? That's not really how our legal system works. He has to comply with any police investigations if he witnessed anything, or he could be charged with obstruction. But we don't go around arresting civilians for failing to report crimes.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 03:53 PM) So at this point the defense is "he's too old and senile to understand what child molestation is"? Last week you would have told us he was too old and senile to know what's going on with his football program. Now you'd have us believe he knows every detail of what goes on on the entire campus.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 03:52 PM) I quoted j4l twice in that post... And you also said "you both."

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 03:50 PM) But if Paterno made a big scene about him having a young boy at that football practice, that's a "wait, wtf"? moment. Well, I didn't necessarily mean he would have known during practice or made a scene. I was thinking more along the lines of he heard later that Sandusky had been seen there and was angry about it. I honestly have no clue, but I have seen major college football practices. There are often times hundreds of people walking around. I wouldn't be shocked if Paterno simply had no clue.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 04:43 PM) So you both claim he did absolutely nothing wrong, at the time, but should be fired. Again, who has said he did nothing wrong?