iamshack

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 02:06 PM) Ok, you won't get disagreement from me on that point. But this is a distinctly different point from Paterno's inactions. Well, I know the GJ report is probably the most influential piece of evidence out there that there is, but I am certainly not going to let the media color my opinion of what Paterno did or did not do here until the facts are out. There is a clear desire by the organizations delivering 95% of the information we are consuming about this for it all to be as much about Joe Paterno as it can. Why the heck would I trust those organizations before all the information has been presented?

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 01:57 PM) I don't think that's fair. If this happened at Montana State, I'd think that there would still be criminal charges, coaches and AD's would still be shown the door, etc. This is only getting media attention after the GJ indictment. The point I am trying to make, that is being incredibly misunderstood, is that the media will trip over themselves as to who can articulate how sad this is for the victims, and then immediately switch gears and make this as much about Joe Paterno and Penn State as possible, so as to blow up the story for their own benefit. And yet, the kids this happened to are just as real anywhere as those that it happened to at Penn State.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 01:55 PM) Last I checked none of us were on the radio. So what does that have to do with this thread and our discussion? And I'm familiar with a figurehead getting blasted by the media regardless of the facts in a situation. However in this situation and on this board, I think we have taken into account the facts and the different amounts of blame that need to go around. Thats why I think 90 percent of the people on this boards have the position that they need to clean house entirely. Well maybe if you read my posts you would see I haven't accused anyone here of being a member of the media or being on the radio. I guess now we can only commentate on things that other members of the site have said?

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 01:53 PM) I don't care about Cowherd or ESPN. I care about what's being discussed itt and maybe some of the links others have posted. And I didn't say I thought you would misinterpret the story. Why should any media be allowed to distort the story so much? Do you not interact with other human beings and realize how little people in our society actually understand or remember of news stories?

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 01:52 PM) Thank you, too! I don't know what is so f***ing hard to understand. Motherf***ing Devil's advocates. I'm not being a devil's advocate, it was my impression of the coverage all day yesterday morning. And don't mistake what I've been typing - I've not accused anyone of the people posting in this thread of blaming Paterno for molestation. I'm merely pointing out the disingenuousness of the sports radio mouthpieces and the tv talk shows. I don't care if they want to sell their souls for the sake of money, but the story is almost entirely about Joe Paterno now, and to a far lesser degree about Sandusky. That's the problem I have with it.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 01:47 PM) WTF? Seriously, can you point to an example where even a cursory reading of the story would leave a reader with that impression? Turn on Colin Cowherd for 10 minutes in your car and catch just part of the story, and it would be easy to be left with that impression.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 01:41 PM) Is anyone saying that at all? Each person involved in the ignoring and covering up of what happened should pay some sort of price should they not? Paterno, Schultz and Curley also lied to a Grand Jury based on the evidence provided up to this point. Have you read the thread? Have you listened to the radio? Have you watched the talk shows? Everyone is entirely positive that they would have immediately run in and stopped everything they witnessed, called the police, then if the police didn't handle it, they would have called in the National Guard, and if it was appropriately handled then, they would have devoted their life to following this child molester around everywhere he goes so as to ensure he never so much as looked at a child again because we all owe it to the potential victims. Again, I'm not condoning anything that was done, but the degree of outrage towards Joe Paterno right now is simply out of control right now because everyone is fixated on the hero getting slayed in public...if this happened on the campus of Montana State or something, it would be a story for 3 days and then we would all forget about it. And yet the kids who were the victims of it would still be just as real.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 01:40 PM) That's a problem with arguments on this site. People seem to think the answer has to be A or B, nothing else is possible. The GA and Paterno are both at fault here, the GA likely much more than Paterno. It's not the GA or Paterno or the AD or the VP. It is all of them to various degrees. Fire them all. No, the problem is that Paterno is the story now. And if you don't take the time to actually read the facts, you might think Paterno actually molested children himself. And then 20 years from now, Paterno's name is going to come up, and someone is going to say "isn't that that old geezer who coached Penn State for 50 years and was caught molesting kids?" The media needs to be more responsible with the story instead of just irresponsibly making this into what will get the biggest ratings or website hits.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 01:24 PM) No, he reported it to the authorities appropriate enough to allow him to pass the buck and not get in trouble himself. The actual appropriate authorities would have been the police. And it seems that you're saying that you "think" Paterno took little action because he was disgusted by it. That may be true, or it may be false. What we can say, that isn't an opinion, is that he didn't do everything in his power to see that the situation was resolved. He did the bare minimum, which should save him from prosecution, but it shouldn't save him from losing his job and his public persona. Sandusky admitted molesting a child to the police and they did nothing themselves! But we're going to persecute Paterno more for not telling the police, than the actual police, who were told by the criminal himself and did nothing! How is that not the bigger story here? I don't care if he loses his job; it's time for him to move on anyways. And honestly, it's probably good for us as a society that the shortcomings of these godlike figures on college campuses are being brought to light, because maybe it will open their eyes to the fact that these are just people, capable of making mistakes just like the rest of us. But of course right now, everyone else feels the need to stand up and tell the world how much of a "moral failure" Joe Paterno is, and how we all would have risen to the occasion and handled the situation perfectly. We're all also qualified to damn Paterno to hell, since the media and the rest of us commentators are all such "moral superstars." Give me a break.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 01:12 PM) Milkman, Hard to fire an employee when you as the employer are far more responsible. Thats why they are going to let him retire. Paterno reported it to his supervisors, firing him is a classic case of kicking your dog because you screwed something up. Even more importantly, how the hell are the cops getting a pass here?

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 01:00 PM) I don't think that's a fair characterization, at least of what's going on itt. No one is expecting him to do some sort of investigation but simply to pick up the phone and alert the authorities when it becomes clear that your AD is going to let this very, very serious allegation slide. He wasn't just "some sick f***" but a long-time friend and fellow coach. That Paterno wanted to wash his hands of the matter and let someone else deal with it is a moral failing, not an excuse. You're right, though, that others are more culpable for the inaction that allowed continued abuse. Yeah, and he disassociated himself with him as much as possible. People have difficulty handling these sort of things. It's a fact of life. You've known someone for half your life and then you find out something horrendously awful about them that you never knew. Sometimes it's just too much for that person to be the person reporting the crime/act. Is it a "moral failure" or whatever you'd like to call it? Sure. And we all have more failures and make bad decisions. To me, it reads like Paterno simply was so disgusted with Sandusky that he didn't want to be involved in any way, shape, or form. I am not saying I condone that position necessarily, but I can certainly understand that someone would do it. Paterno is just some guy that's coached football all his life. I really understand that he works with young adults, and that part of his obligations are to shape them into men ready for life, and not just football. But that doesn't necessarily extend to personally chasing down child molesters and roasting them over an open fire for their crimes. He reported it to the appropriate authorities, and they failed to act. As did seemingly everyone involved here, including those whose sole job, the thing they do for a living, was to handle the situation. And yet this is going to revolve entirely around what Paterno did or didn't do. I just find that disingenuous.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 12:36 PM) So distressed he couldn't/didn't stop it and waited an entire night to tell Paterno. There was no "pattern" at the time. That's the problem here. Everyone is looking at this situation like Paterno knew this guy was a monster for years and years. As far as we know, that was the first Paterno heard of anything like that before. Again, hindsight makes it easier to blame. Why on earth couldn't Paterno trust his AD and a VP of the school (who happens to oversee the campus police) to do the right thing and if necessary report the allegation to the proper outside authorities? You don't know that he's credible. For all we know Paterno might have known that Sandusky and the GA had private issues and the GA was trying to get him in trouble. Pure conjecture. And "letting them sweep the matter under the rug" is bulls***. Give me a reason why Paterno shouldn't have trusted his AD to do the right thing. I agree with you and Tex for the most part, Jenks...my friend and I were taking this opinion all day yesterday as we watched and listened to the endless ranting all day. If you were not really a sports fan, and you just sort of caught bits and pieces of this story, you might think Joe Paterno was the man who raped/molested children here. The media, in their endless quest to create the biggest story possible, has indeed made this about Joe Paterno, because he's obviously the bigger name than Sandusky or the administration. That's not fair to Paterno, nor to the victims or their families. Paterno is an elderly man. We all loved to laugh about how he has no idea what the hell is going on with his football team for the last 15 years, and yet, now we expect him to be Sherlock Holmes in regards to some sick f*** on his campus. I find that a bit hypocritical. Have you guys ever personally dealt with this sort of thing? Having someone you know be sick like that? It's incredibly, incredibly uncomfortable, sickening, and especially mind-blowing if you thought you knew a person that is afflicted with this sort of sickness. I think Paterno was probably so horrified and disgusted and shocked that he simply wanted someone else to deal with it. Yes, he absolutely should have done more. But Joe Paterno is a football coach. He has always been a football coach. He is not suddenly the freaking morality adjudicator, or the campus police, or the town police. He reported the matter, and turned it over to individuals who had a far, far greater responsibility, and background to handle such an indiscretion/crime, and they should have done so. Did Sandusky not admit he did this to the freaking police and they turned a blind eye? The police, who swear to protect and serve for a living? How are they not far more culpable than an elderly football coach who was probably so sickened and disgusted that he simply didn't want anything more to do with this guy? I get the outrage, and I understand the severity of the crimes, but I think it is disingenuous bs for the media to trip all over themselves to see who can seem more sympathetic and outraged that these events occurred, and then spend the rest of the discussion blaming this on Joe Paterno and explaining to us why he needs to be fired. Just BS in my opinion.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 8, 2011 -> 10:10 AM) Here's the kicker though...if the Bears lose next week to the Lions...that makes the Bears 5-4 on the season. 7 games to play...getting to 11 wins means the Bears need to go 6-1 in their last 7 games, including 1 game on the road at Lambeau. That's do-able against their schedule...but it's ugly. The Bears do not want to be in that boat. The Bears do not need 11 wins to get in. 10 will do it.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Nov 7, 2011 -> 10:35 AM) So close to 7 too! And I think Rivers reads soxtalk..."I'm not injured." I think the Bengals did too Damn Saints cost my buddy $2700 he would have hit on a parlay...if they could have just converted a 3rd and inches at the end of the game they would have run out the clock and won by 8 instead of getting stopped and getting forced to kick a field goal and ultimately win by 11. I'm hoping the public will bet up the Eagles tonight...the Bears ml is up to 330...

QUOTE (lostfan @ Nov 4, 2011 -> 06:44 PM) Eagles play their DEs wide, like the Lions, to rush the QB faster and put more pressure on the ends. This means that the gaps will be wider and leave more room for runs on traps, counters, draws, etc. and 7-step drops need to be kept to a minimum unless there are only 2 WRs going out in patterns, since the DEs will be right where the QB is as soon as he completes his drop without TEs chipping them. The Lions game was a disaster (despite Cutler's stats) because of a combination of Martz's playcalling, Kellen Davis nearly singlehandedly losing the game, and Frank Omiyale's epic levels of suckage. So, it'll be interesting to see what Martz is going to do. He will probably throw 75 times against the Eagles secondary... great. Don't forget Chris Harris playing the worst game I have ever seen a safety in the NFL play... The key to the wide nine bulls*** is being able to slow down Philly's offense enough to stay in the game and be able to run the ball. If you get gashed right off the bat like the Cowboys did, it's hard to stick with your running game even if it continues to be successful. DeMarco Murray had like 75 yards on 8 carries or something Monday night, so they were successful with the run, they just didn't stick with it because they were down so much so fast.

QUOTE (Paint it Black @ Nov 4, 2011 -> 09:09 PM) Issues are not simply black and white. Hard slot has many negative impacts. Simply, if the draft was skewed to favor big market teams than the Royals would not have had one of the best systems EVER. The Rays would not Have been abele to do what they do. And also, the small market teams seem to be doing ok with signing international talent as well. Tis may be shocking, but the big boys are not outspending in that area either. I don't understand how you keep coming to this conclusion. Please explain to me how a hard slot system is going to disallow the small-market teams, or put another way, the teams that have been generally bad throughout the last decade, from continuing to put together strong farm systems? Until someone points out that the small market teams are building their franchises through signability risks AFTER the first few rounds, I'm going to continue to believe that the reason the smaller market teams have strong systems is because they habitually pick higher than the larger market teams or the teams that have been generally much stronger at the mlb level. The Pirates and Royals are not going to be missing their chance at Mike Moustakas or Gerritt Cole if a hard slot is instituted. You keep pointing to the #1 and #2 picks in the draft as the reason the small market teams have great systems. WELL THAT WILL NEVER CHANGE BY INSTITUTING A HARD SLOT SYSTEM. What would possibly change is the ability of the small market teams to improve their systems by drafting players that drop in the LATER rounds for signability reasons. And yet no one has been able to point these players out.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Nov 4, 2011 -> 03:22 PM) Colt McCoy Kyle Orton Alex Smith Ryan Fitzpatrick Blaine Gabbert Curtis Painter Charlie Whitehurst/Tarvarias Jackson That's a muderers row of quarterbacks they have faced so far. Well add Matt Hassleback to it, without any real weapons, and he fits right in.

QUOTE (GoSox05 @ Nov 4, 2011 -> 03:12 PM) Anyone's D would look good against Browns, Seahawks, Colts and Denver. Well, they did hold Buffalo to 20 points and San Francisco to 13 points. Meanwhile, Tennessee has done nothing of consequence other than beating Baltimore in week 2, which was clearly a letdown game for the Ravens. Meanwhile, the Titans are just not the same team without Kenny Britt.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Nov 4, 2011 -> 11:44 AM) I have bet against the Bengals all season, which is obviously done me no good, so I have no opinion about that game. The Buccs have won the last two meetings in the Superdome and beat them in Tampa last month. That being said, I think the Saints are gonna come out pissed off and fired up after the debacle in St. Louis, I think New Orleans wins easily. I was listening to one of the oddsmakers on the radio this morning and they were saying the public is definitely going to drive the Saints' line up thinking they are going to come off the loss all fired up. The Bucs play them well usually...I think I'll take the 8 points. I think the Bengals are just much better than the Titans at this point. The line is saying they are two equal teams. I disagree, especially considering CJ sucks right now and the passing game has been stalled since Britt went down.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 4, 2011 -> 12:35 PM) Quitting my job moving to a smaller start up company. The worst part is going to be the actual quitting. My current boss is known to motherf*** people over the phone. No s***? When?

What do we think about the Bengals +3 this week and the Bucs +8, fellas?

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 4, 2011 -> 11:24 AM) My new 4s with verizon service should be here monday. Pretty pumped to see what the Verizon network can do for me. I'm really temped to order it...I'm just curious when they will release the iPhone5 and whether it's worth it to hold out or not. I'm tired of not being able to use my phone in the car.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 4, 2011 -> 09:42 AM) Siri stopped working for a few hours yesterday. (Normally I'd have said Siri "went down" for a few hours yesterday but that sounded really dirty). I wasn't aware it worked like that...pretty crazy that people are already hooked on it in just a few weeks.

QUOTE (Tex @ Oct 31, 2011 -> 04:26 PM) I hate to admit this but my iPad collects dust most of the time. I wish mine would do that...that would reduce my cleaning time considerably.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 4, 2011 -> 09:02 AM) F***. University sends out job announcement saying that the due date for applications for their position is November 1, 2012. I add that to my calendar...but don't realize they have the year wrong. Realized it this morning. Just sent in my application, pointed out that the issue was that they had the wrong date so I got no reminder. I'm hoping that they won't rule me out because I'm a couple days late by the day that they probably wanted applications, when I'm actually 361 days ahead of what their application actually said. F***. Why didn't I see that earlier. Edit: Whoof. Deep breath. Uck. Is it common for universities to put out a job announcement saying they will be accepting applications for more than a full year?