iamshack

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 04:43 PM) Because making that kind of scene about a random former assistant coach showing up to practice with a young boy would kind of...um...make people start to wonder what the deal was and whether there should be police involved. The police caught him redhanded and nothing was done...I don't really know how that could have happened, but if they're not going to arrest him for admitting to showering with a young boy, I don't see how they'd arrest him for going to a football practice.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 04:38 PM) Is he or is he not the head of the football program? Wouldnt he be the person to ban someone from his practices?? Wouldnt he be the correct person to call the police or other authorities when he saw Sandusky illegally taking a child to his practice? How far can you go with this ignorance defense? Seriously, do you see how thick his glasses are? Do you think most head coaches, let alone those that shouldn't even be driving anymore, really know everyone who is at their practices? And how do you know he didn't find out and say get that sick sob away from my practices? We just don't know right now.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 04:37 PM) If the longest running head football coach in U.S. collegiate history has committed an offense that is fireable by even his defender's opinion...and he is refusing to resign, then you've just set up why this is the biggest story in sports, and why that coach will receive extra attention and extra blame. A coach committing an offense for which he should be fired, and then refusing to resign, in a major sports program, that is something for which the coach is going to receive heavy criticism. Balta, I don't have a problem with it being a big sports story. Just spare me the intro of "this is the darkest, most sickening thing one can possibly imagine..." and THATS WHY JOE PATERNO NEEDS TO BE FIRED act.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 04:34 PM) I personally think he should resign. I assume he thinks that is admitting guilt which is going to force the BOD's hand. Fired, resign, lose his job, however you want to put it...I don't think many, if any, that have been participating in this discussion would argue with any of those results.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 04:32 PM) Steve, I believe that was also after he was banned from taking children with him on PSU campus. And we all know it is 80-something year old Joe Paterno who is in charge of enforcing bans on the PSU campus. Again, this is on the University, the Administration, the campus police, the local and state authorities...there are so many parties to blame with regard to all of these incidents before you get to Joe Paterno.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 04:30 PM) Seriously, how can anyone read the Grand Jury Report and think Joe Paterno doesn't need to be fired... regardless if he "reported" what he knew. F*cking page 2 talks of Sandusky bringing a child to Penn State practice sometime after 2007. Yup, and even though Paterno knew of Sandusky's perverted, disgusting acts of the past, he did nothing to PROECT A HELPLESS CHILD. Give me a f***ing break. Note the dates below, as they happen well after 1998, when Joe Paterno undoubtedly had knowledge of Sandusky's evil ways. That's just blatant disregard for that poor kid's safety. JoePa knows, with absolutely no doubt, that Sandusky rapes and molests little boys. Oh, but he reported the past incident, so it's not HIS problem. He has to focus on coaching football, after all. But yes, poor Joe Paterno. He just wants to coach football. These innocent children he carelessly enabled that monster Sandusky to associate with... well, that's not his fault. He didn't DO IT. The media are the true monsters here, making Joe Paterno seem like some sort of asshole who has no problem with the rape of children. Remember... "beat Nebraska!" The man held a pep rally on his f***ing lawn today. F*ck him. Who here has said he shouldn't be fired?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 04:23 PM) None of that changes my statement that the right thing for him to do right now is resign. If he is unable to decide to do that, or unwilling to, then the university needs to do it for him, and fire him in disgrace. I don't have a problem with that.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 04:15 PM) Dont really know, all we know is that Sandusky was allowed to take young boys to practice and PSU would pay to fly him and the kids to events and bowl games. Outside of that Paterno was just the most powerful man at an institution where rape took place by a professor emeritus, and he happened to be the guy an eye witness came to for resolution. Would you be shocked if you find out Paterno made sure he retired, told him he never wanted to see or speak to him again, and refused to be associated with him in any way? Why is Paterno somehow charged with controlling the logistics of every facility or event that PSU is involved with all the sudden? Prior to this week, would you have suspected Paterno had a clue who was being flown where by PSU, or every person that was using their training facilities?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 04:15 PM) But what that tells me is that this 85 year old man does not fully comprehend what this situation means. His priorities are still wrong. This horrible situation happened under him, and yet he still thinks he should be coaching his football team, and that it's up to everyone else to deal with this problem...just like it was up to everyone else to deal with the problem when it first came up. And that...I'm afraid, makes him look awful. That makes the "Shell Shock" excuse something I no longer care about...because he's still acting that way now. I doubt he does fully comprehend it. I could be wrong, maybe Joe is sharp as a tack. But I view him as a guy that has and is dedicated to try and make the university and community better by winning football games, the only thing he has ever really known in the last 65 years. He concerns himself with football issues, and not much else. I don't think he wanted anything to be covered up. I think he reported it and hoped it would go away and I think he just probably believes Sandusky will get his judgment by someone far more important than him. Again, this is all very easy to criticize his behavior in hindsight. But can you seriously argue that there weren't several people far more responsible, but even more importantly, professionally capable to deal with this situation after Paterno reported it than he?

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 04:13 PM) No, but he's the face of an institution that did their best to cover it up to protect the image of their precious football program. Wtf is wrong with these people? Exactly. He's just the face, as he has been for probably 15-20 years now. Maybe the majority of the blame should be directed at the people actually making decisions about things other than simply football games.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 04:11 PM) Your whole statement is because of what happened in 1998. So again when he learned of it from a witness in 2002 you are telling me he did the right thing? Rock, at that point, in 2002, what was Paterno's association with Sandusky?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 04:09 PM) And now that everything is out in the open, now that everything has been revealed...I could accept that. I could accept that he was simply shell-shocked at the time. I really could believe that. But if that's the explanation, if that's exactly what happened, then he needs to resign. That means he made a mistake, and now that everyone out there understands the mistake he made, he needs to take the step to show that he's coming to grips with his own actions. End his involvement in the story, get out of the way, and let Penn State deal with the many more hard days ahead without having to worry about him. Well this is where the part about him being an 85 year old man who still thinks he should be coaching a football team comes in. That's what I meant in my first post in the thread. He obviously needs to be "helped" out of the way. We shouldn't suddenly expect him to realize that now.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 04:06 PM) That took long. From "did not report the rape of minors" to "Hitler". Congratulations. Why don't you take the same advice you felt so self-righteously entitled to give J4L?

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 04:05 PM) But it was the SECOND time they heard about this. Fool me once, shame on you.... No, what I am saying is that he probably knew by then and was horrified to come to the conclusion he did. Which is why he completely disassociated (and my guess is probably was absolutely sickened) himself with Sandusky and just wanted to not even have to think about what might have gone on over the course of the last 30 years. He turned it over to someone else to deal with and unfortunately it was not ever appropriately handled. Not by the administration, nor the legal authorities.

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 04:01 PM) I just can't help imagining the conversation. "Coach Paterno, I don't know how to tell you this, but I walked into the locker room shower last night and saw Coach Sandusky ass raping a 10 year old boy." How do you not act? Telling your boss just is not enough. It's that simple. There's infinite blame to go around and Paterno is right near the top. Ok, now substitute Coach Sandusky with someone you have known for 30 years...that you never suspected this of...and that you know has had ample opportunity to be around young, naked men for that entire time. My guess is Paterno was extremely horrified and probably had a lot more situations than the one reported to him flash through his mind. Some things are really almost too difficult to comprehend.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 02:55 PM) I understand where you're coming from, as I would probably not know what to do if I were a child in that situation. I'm assuming you were a child, though. And these people who did nothing were not children. They were full-grown men in positions of power. There is quite a difference. I'm more speaking to the fact that when you find something like this out about someone you've known and trusted for a long time...it tends to be shocking...tends to be mind-blowing. It shakes you out of what the smart or best course of action might be, because of what it makes you feel about yourself...about this person...and I think it leads to just wanting to escape the situation and get away from it. Regardless of whether that is the cowardly thing to do or the easiest thing to do, I think the alternative...to contemplate the truth...it sort of leads to inaction or paralysis. I know it sounds hard to believe, but I can understand why Paterno would want to just report it and never think about it again. Again, not condoning it by any means, but I'm just not going to be one to jump on the condemnation train on this one either.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 02:36 PM) Again, not really that outlandish. People in positions of power, especially in the sports world, get lots and lots of passes for their actions. But really this misses the point of coming up with a hypothetical. Would I have envisioned this exact scenario? No, of course not. But that's different from taking an existing scenario and exploring different avenues and results that can cast people in different lights. Because that's not what you started out with. It bothers me (and others) to see some weak excuses being thrown out there for Paterno's inaction. Your position wasn't that "I don't know enough, not going to judge," but that people who expected more out of Paterno were being hypocritical, that he's just a football coach and that others deserve much, much more of the blame (uncontroversial to anyone here, btw). edit: I do want to retract my claims of you trying to "deflect" with the media thing though. You were making a legitimate issue of this in your first post on the issue. Well, I think inaction happens all the time. I think it happens far more than we would like to believe. I think people see harm and crimes and terrible, terrible things happening all the time and either do the legal minimum, don't do anything at all, or certainly don't do what they would have claimed to do before encountering the situation. I had a member of the clergy try some very shady s*** on me at a university I attended. I am sure I wasn't the only one he did it to, honestly. As a matter of fact, he was indeed banished from the university for his inappropriate actions towards young men. This man was a family friend of ours. My brother had known him for years. I came home after the incident and my own mother did not believe this man could possibly have tried something on me. My brother did not believe me either. I left it there. I did not report it to police. I did not report it to school authorities. I figured why would the police or the school authorities believe me if my own family did not? Not until later did my family believe me when this guy was forced to leave. Now I don't want to pretend as though I was a victim likes these kids were. But this guy would have tried to make me one had I allowed it. It's really some sick s*** when you find this out about someone you trusted, someone you were friends with or close to. Not everyone has the stomach to try to bring them to justice for their sickness. I guess I should have. I guess I might have saved some other person from having this guy try something sick on them. But do I feel as though I should be condemned? Or that it was a moral failure of mine? No. I think this is a lot more complicated for a person to be involved with than you guys would like to believe.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 02:35 PM) Then my question in reply is...if you felt like you'd made that kind of failure, where people legitimately got hurt because you failed to act...and you were in a public position like this, and you had a lifetime of earnings to fall back on (thus you didn't need the job)...why wouldn't you fall on your sword and step aside immediately? I mean, be honest...if Joe Paterno understands the situation, then he knows that Joe Paterno is going to be the story until Joe Paterno is out of the way. If he doesn't want his actions or lack thereof to be the story, if he doesn't want the kids on his team right now to have to deal with it, if he doesn't want the University Trustees to have to deal with deciding whether or not to fire him when they fire the university President tomorrow, then step aside. Right now. I don't care if he retires now or at the end of the year. I see the story for what it is. It's unfortunate that the media will not. I'm certainly not saying Paterno shouldn't have quit yesterday, honestly. I'm just saying I find the outrage and the need to condemn others, particularly Joe Paterno as the primary target here, when it should be Sandusky, the Administration, and law enforcement taking the brunt of the blame, to be a bit ridiculous.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 02:29 PM) Dan Bernstein, channeling this thread http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2011/11/09/ber...nd-jury-report/ See...why is the picture of Joe Paterno and not Jerry Sandusky? WHY WHY WHY?

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 02:28 PM) Is there really a more obvious piece of evidence that the administration knew what was going on? Well, this is why I am more outraged at the administration and the authorities than Joe Paterno. I find their incompetence infinitely more worthy of discussion.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 02:28 PM) Come on, of course not. And failing in this particular instance doesn't make Paterno an evil or bad person overall. He's human. We all have failures. But that doesn't excuse those failures. I honestly think he would admit this was a failure on his part.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 02:27 PM) He should have been legitimately saddened by it 9 years ago and done something. Right now, the best thing he can do to remove attention from himself is to resign. I don't think he or anyone else has claimed it would not have been better for him to have done more. The distinction is that not all of us feel the need to publicly condemn him for it.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 02:26 PM) A scenario where someone is seeing doing something really wrong, but people in a position of power cover it up to protect their own reputations? That's not really a novel situation. The problem is that there is always more evidence, more things we can wait to find out before 'rushing to judgement.' At this point, there appears to be sufficient evidence to understand what happened in this case. That it is difficult or impossible to come up with a plausible scenario that makes Paterno not look like an ass illustrates this. No, the scenario that a major university employed and enabled a child molester on their campus. I guess my point is, you have every right to your opinion. I just don't understand why it bothers you that I withhold mine for the most part regarding Paterno until I read/hear more?

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 02:22 PM) His attempted deflection is self-interest, not some higher purpose. One really quick way to make the focus shift off of him would be to.....resign immediately instead of sticking around. I disagree. I think Paterno is probably legitimately saddened by all this, and not just looking to cover his own ass.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 02:21 PM) That's pretty much what this entire discussion is about. And I said my piece, and then brought up other issues I thought were pertinent as well. Is that a moral failing of mine as well, to introduce other issues?