iamshack

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 03:24 PM) Refuse to understand what really happened; that's your call. Distorting the truth for the sake of dramatization, that's your habit. I'll wait to see how the story unfolds.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 03:17 PM) It's not a legend. For a minimum of 9 years JoePa knew of Sandusky's disgusting, perverted habit, yet happily kept him around and did nothing to ensure he stay away from other children. It's too bad Joe Paterno and the rest of those scumbags at Penn State couldn't see the forest for the trees, realize they could have stepped up and been heroes, and help put an end to things. Instead, it seems they willingly went along with a cover-up and hoped for the best. Almost every post you've made in this thread sounds like you're trying to write the introduction for a movie or book. We have no idea whether he "happily" kept him around, or whether he did "nothing" to ensure Sandusky stay away from other children.

QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 02:41 PM) Steve Stone loves Donnie Veal, I am not joking Is this the former Cubs prospect?

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 03:56 PM) Congratulations. Your show of support for a man who cared way more about his reputation as the never-ending head coach of PSU Football than he did about children being violently raped is respectable. You win the award for "Most Ridiculous 2011". It's just so sad that people care so much for a man who happily turned a blind eye to save his precious football team's reputation. And the legend continues to grow...

QUOTE (bmags @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 03:40 PM) What? Who cares? Who cares that he doesn't have email or a cellphone. If the most revered man in that town goes and asks for a police investigation into a child rape, they would respond. If he goes in and asks for a cheeseburger, they would go get one. Paterno apparently got a sweetheart deal on his property ... why? Because he's joe paterno. But, yes, I see, it is more probable that he wouldn't follow up on the child rape, it's because he was senile. He clearly just forgot about it! So which is it, guys? That the University forced the police and the DA to stop the prosecution of Sandusky, or that Paterno should have forced them to investigate it? It seems to me they had him making a goddamned confession on their own and did not prosecute him...but Super Joe Paterno, the Don of Happy Valley should have gotten it done! Give me a f***ing break.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 03:27 PM) It would have done a lot of good for Joe Paterno, that's for sure. He'd still have a job. But it wouldn't have saved "all the victims" after 2002, would it?

QUOTE (bmags @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 02:21 PM) Just to drive this home tex, if one of your scout masters told you they saw a boy get raped, and you told your superiors, then continued to see that man around business as usual for years, and then a scandal hit showing that he was continuing to rape boys... people may ask that you no longer hold that duty. And in that scenario, you didn't get raped, you aren't going to jail, you just lost your job. Poor you. You are clearly the biggest victim here. Joe Paterno was the most powerful man in Happy Valley. Without a doubt. Within his football administration was a man serially raping young boys in large numbers, none yet completely known. At some point, he was told about this. No criminal charges were ever filed against this man. The public gets notified. He loses his job. The serial rapist being around is the problem here. All those that knew are tainted. You can't move on without removing that stain. Hopefully, those victims can. But no, I don't care that poor Joe Paterno has to retire comfortably in his old age. He is not the victim here. This is just such oversimplification. There are always degrees of blame. There are degrees of culpability and responsibility. Stop trying to treat this man, who was at the time in his mid-seventies, and accused widely of being completely senile, as if he was the f***ing Don of a mafia organization. This "most powerful man in Happy Valley" statement is such nonsense and belies all common sense. He was the most powerful man around the football team, not the Administration, not the University. Go read an article about him before this all happened. He doesn't have email. He doesn't have a cellphone. Paterno is certainly not the victim here. But that doesn't mean he isn't a victim here.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 02:21 PM) In this case? You're damn right there's no defense. There may be "Explanations". We covered some of them yesterday. They aren't excuses, they aren't defenses. From what he has already said, from his admission that he should have done more, from his own statement, you're right, his actions are indefensible. Bulls***. Only indefensible to everyone on their obviously poorly constructed, falling-apart high horses.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 02:21 PM) But, it's conjecture that they did nothing. In fact, they actively investigated it and even had a detective listen in on a conversation between the mother of one of the victims and Sandusky himself. For all you or anyone knows right now, the case had to be dropped on some technicality. Here you go bringing in the legal aspect of the case with Paterno, which has nothing to do with why he was fired. It's been said about 403 teams in this thread. No, I'm really not. I'm asking you that if the police already knew about Sandusky, what good would it do if Joe Paterno told them he heard from someone else that Sandusky raped a child?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 02:16 PM) No, let's do the right thing and fire him based on his own admissions that he did not do enough. Yes, I will sit here on my high horse and say that no matter what else he did in his life, what he has already admitted to in this case tarnishes everything. Oh, and if you were watching earlier this thread, my reaction to the statemetns about the DA et al. dropping their 1998 investigation were to question whether the DA could face charges over failing to act. It was suggested to me that they cannot be charged for that. Except you didn't say it merely tarnishes everything. I think everyone will agree everything has been tarnished. You stated he cannot be defended.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 02:14 PM) Conjecture, the same as you're condemning others for using. For all we know, the DA decided that the evidence gathered by the police would be considered inadmissible and that's the reason nothing came of it. It's not conjecture that the police and the DA were made aware of Sandusky showering with a young boy and failed to prosecute him for it. If that is indeed the case, that they were aware, what legal ramifications do you believe could have come from Paterno calling the police and telling them that he was told by someone else that they witnessed Sandusky raping a child?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 01:57 PM) No, I certainly have not. I think he should have been fired for failing to act strongly enough in 2002. THat has now happened and I consider the matter closed, with 2 exeptions; 1., if it turns out that he was more involved than currently known, and 2., when people step up and try to defend his reputation which should justly be viewed as in tatters. You don't know s*** about what happened as of right now. You simply don't. None of us do. But you go ahead and sit on your high horse right now, and tell anyone who thinks that just maybe we should wait and see what the hell was really going on there for the last 15 years that we are moral failures too, Balta. Because you know. Hell, you are the great moral adjudicator. Throw out his 65 years of coaching. Throw out the tens of thousands of young men, their wives, girlfriends, and families that he has helped. Because I am absolutely convinced that his entire life up until this point has been a complete farce, and all the stories about Paterno being a great human being are just all bulls***. The guy made a mistake. He should have done more. Hell, the goddamned police and the DA, you know, those that the taxpayers fund their paychecks? They did nothing. Those that get specific training to handle criminals like Sandusky? They did nothing. But let's spend all our time deliberating whether the football coach should coach one game or three games. Let's speculate just how much involvement he might or probably had, before just allowing the facts to actually come out. You are ridiculous.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 01:56 PM) No. he. hasn't. You are completely misinterpreting what is being said. Why is it you feel the need to respond for Balta? He. Just. Posted. That. Paterno's. Entire. Life. Should. Be. Judged. Basically. Solely. On. This. Incident.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 01:56 PM) There was a Grand Jury report released, for one. So you're going to claim that your entire set of beliefs on this issue are stemming from the GJ report?

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 01:51 PM) I'm pretty sure is was a hypothetical to illustrate a point, not serious speculation of what happened. You've blown it completely out of proportion to rationalize your position. I don't have to rationalize anything...I'm sitting here incredulous that Balta has already condemned and convicted Paterno of everything but child molestation himself, which, btw, Milk is now hoping happens.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 01:50 PM) I see, so you're willing to sit here and tell me that it's media coverage that has influenced me to speculate about why the DA dropped the case in 1998. Which media did I consume which caused me to speculate this? How else do you even know about the story, Balta? Were you there now?

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 01:45 PM) Sure he does. His point was that there's nothing to report on the "PSU forced a DA to drop an investigation" story because it is pure speculation, the same as a report claiming Paterno personally stopped it would be. What isn't speculative is the condemnation of Paterno's inaction regarding the 2002 incident. What I'm saying is the fact that some are actually speculating about it is evidence that the media coverage is influencing peoples' imaginations to run wild about what Paterno might have done, regardless of what the actual known facts are as of this time.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 01:41 PM) I'd say it's stemming from the fact that somehow he still has defenders who tell us that he was an exemplary person and led an exemplary life. Wow.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 01:40 PM) I think you should go re-read that series of posts. You're taking what he said the wrong way, completely. He doesn't seem to think so...

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 01:39 PM) He was illustrating a point with a potential scenario, not claiming that it happened. Yes, keep making my point for me, please.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 02:38 PM) Balta is pointing out that this is pure speculation, not saying that it is what happened. And I am pointing out that this kind of speculation is stemming from the media coverage. Earth to you both.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 02:37 PM) There's no evidence that that actually happened. Running with that story would be pure speculation and completely irresponsible. And yet everyone's imaginations are running wild, like Balta's, about Paterno calling the DA and Paterno hatching this plan with the President of the University to cover everything up...

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 02:31 PM) Ok, BALCO, name the key people involved, and the most vilified person. The highest profile person involved in a scandal is always the most publicized. Its a pretty simple concept. See, this is the problem with the media coverage to this point. Now we're comparing Joe to Barry Bonds. As if he was just as guilty as the other actors in our story...needless to say we have a child rapist involved, Paterno is more famous so we should be talking about him instead!

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 02:29 PM) We have just as much evidence that the DA dropped his charges because it was Penn State Football as we have evidence that Joe Paterno personally called him and asked him to not investigate further. That part is informed speculation at best. But there clearly needs to be investigation to figure out why that happened. Oh you are being absolutely ridiculous now. See, this is my whole f***ing point. Now Paterno is the one calling the DA and asking him not to investigate the molestation of a child...

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 02:25 PM) Well yeah, he's the most famous. The same way Kim Kardashian is getting most of the publicity about her divorce. Thats how it works. Oh, great analogy.