Jenksismyhero

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Nov 26, 2014 -> 09:46 AM) With little or no pro-prosecution pressing and the grand jurors asking many of the questions, which is completely unlike a real trial. It's not meant to be a real trial. It's more relaxed. There is less scrutiny of the evidence because the standard is different. You guys keep complaining about there not being a "pro-prosecution" but you're ignoring there also wasn't a "pro-defense" which would have ripped the 15 different versions of the event as reported by the witnesses (at least to the press).

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Nov 26, 2014 -> 09:45 AM) No, they aren't. Imagine you see someone running from someone else and distinctly hear several gunshots fired before the person stops and turns around. Is it a "lie" if you think one of those shots hit the person, especially if you see the person is wounded (which Brown was)? Or is it an honest-but-typical eyewitness mistake? Like I said a few pages ago, if the ultimate result of this is that we apply the same level of scrutiny to all cases going forward as was applied at the indictment level here, great. But I'm not holding my breath for prosecutors to stop zealously pressing for convictions on evidence much weaker than what they had in this case. Yeah I probably would because "I saw him shoot him down" (what Crenshaw initially reported after seeing Brown run away) is different from "he was running and I heard gun shots." Dorian Johnson also clearly said he was shot in the back. You don't say someone is shot in the back unless you saw it. You say that someone was running and you heard gun shots. Or someone was running and you saw them get hit and fall. I mean, best case i'm not taking their claims to be very credible. If they're going to report that he was shot down from behind (and that's not true) anything else they say, especially that Wilson supposedly pulled Brown into the car first, isn't very credible to me.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Nov 26, 2014 -> 09:42 AM) Most witnesses support at least a couple of steps or a stagger toward Wilson. But "moving towards" and charging at him like a wild beast that only gets more aggressive with every bullet that hits him, which is Wilson's story, are two very different things. And like I keep saying, it'd be nice to actually see this blood pattern evidence and have actual experts testify on it, not grand jurors drawing their own conclusions. I don't believe any witnesses ever claimed that Brown never turned around, but I could be wrong. Do you have any links to that? This isn't really THAT important of a distinction. I mean, you've got the victim of an assault reporting what he was seeing. He's hopped up on adrenaline and just killed someone. You have others from a distance seeing a guy move towards another guy. I've had this same problem in cases where some witnesses claim a bus jerked violently forward and others say it just stopped. A lot of that stuff is pretty relative.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 26, 2014 -> 09:41 AM) Which is exactly why there needed to be an actual prosecution and not a document dump to a grand jury. Witness testimony is inherently fraught with difficulty, and the same standard should have been applied to the police officer, whose story you folks take as gospel even where it doesn't make sense. ? They had live witness testimony from these witnesses.

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Nov 26, 2014 -> 09:39 AM) More conclusive? Blood pattens plus several witnesses show that Brown was moving towards Wilson. You have to be awfully stubborn in your position not to accept that. There were witnesses who claimed that Brown was shot from the back and had never turned around, and once confronted with the physical evidence, changed their story. To me, even without reading the GJ stuff, this is the most damaging to those initial witnesses that started this whole surrender thing. 2 or 3 of them said he was shot in the back while running away. And the forensics show that he wasn't. Those are just flat out lies.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Nov 26, 2014 -> 09:37 AM) I don't think anyone but Wilson has testified that Wilson told Brown to get on the ground. I don't know if he did or didn't or what the witnesses are claiming. I'll i'm saying is a cop is not going to allow a person to walk towards them with their hands up. If the situation was "under control" and Brown was following orders, he would have been told to stand still, then get on his knees. Moving forward would have been against typical orders.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 26, 2014 -> 09:37 AM) According to Wilson's testimony, he didn't give any of those orders, the guy turned around and charged at him like the hulk after he'd unloaded several rounds. Well if he didn't have time, he didn't have time. But that would also refute your version where Brown, the golden boy who did no wrong, put his hands up and slowly walked towards Wilson. Which again there is no proof of since that's based on initial witness statements that have since apparently turned out to be incorrect.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 26, 2014 -> 09:32 AM) And several witnesses also say that the deceased had his hands up and was surrendering, but you discount them. Someone really needs to see what the witnesses said in their grand jury testimony, because you keep relying on this but supposedly most of those witnesses changed their story later.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 26, 2014 -> 09:31 AM) if he had his hands up and was yelling something like "I give up" and the cop continued shooting, an entirely reasonable response would be to slowly walk towards him with his hands up so that he could hear him. I'm pretty sure that would be the opposite of what cops are trained to do. They're trained to have the person stay still while they move towards them. Brown would have been told to get on his knees with his hands up, then down on the ground.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Nov 26, 2014 -> 09:09 AM) Twice, with what doesn't appear to be much effect: Somebody punching you in the face twice doesn't generally justify deadly force in response. Going for a gun sure does though.

Since the other thread was closed for some reason, yes there was a suspected murder last night. A body that was shot and set on fire was found. http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2014/11/25/rep...ael-brown-died/

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Nov 25, 2014 -> 03:27 PM) well, there's this journal entry from one of the witnesses in this trial that doesn't exactly scream "so far removed from that line of thinking": This person admits to having a problem even calling blacks people. Of course, they just happened to take a drive to Ferguson that day, be at the scene of the shooting and give a recounting that's strongly in favor of Wilson. Really? One example? Brown's step father was on video screaming to the protesters to burn the town down. I guess black people love violence.

Dropped some cash on a Wii U system on Ebay. Deluxe system with a pro controller, Kart, 3d world, mario/luigi u, wind waker and pikmin 3 for $483 bucks. Cheapest I could find those games anywhere was $48 or higher, so ultimately that's like $600 + tax new. Assuming it all works as described, I'm pretty happy with the price.

QUOTE (Y2HH @ Nov 25, 2014 -> 02:41 PM) For the record, there are FAR more white people living in poverty than all other races combined currently living in the United States. Well, duh, they don't count. White people have had it good throughout history! well except for the Jews, and the Irish, and ....

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Nov 25, 2014 -> 02:32 PM) there's a long and well-documented history of this being done explicitly. hell, they were literally treated as beasts of burden for about a quarter of a millennium on this continent. saying that black people have often been portrayed as unintelligent simpletons and brutes bordering on animalistic behavior isn't some sort of crazy leftwing theory. It's not, but if you haven't noticed the vast majority of people in this country are afraid of their own shadow when it comes to racial issues. We are so far removed from that line of thinking.

QUOTE (MexSoxFan#1 @ Nov 25, 2014 -> 02:32 PM) I was making a comment on how I knew a 12 year old with a BB gun was shot by a cop and how most likely the victim would be black and the cop white...unfortunately I was right. How did that become me saying all whites are devils? Lol How's that any different from me saying that there was a robbery committed in the city of Chicago yesterday and I thought it must be a black kid, and hey, I was right? Pretty sure that's an unfair presumption despite it being statistically more likely true than not.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Nov 25, 2014 -> 02:14 PM) It's hard to argue that it's not both. Total #'s don't prove anything. Show me the rate of criminal activity. What percent of murders in this country are committed by black males? What percent of shooting incidents with cops as intended targets are committed by blacks versus whites? Years ago there were unfair drug sentences, but that's been gone for decades. The skin color doesn't matter, your address matters. Shoot, last night there were hundreds of shots fired at or around police during a protest (and a murder, btw). When's the last time a bunch of white people rioted and shot at police?

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Nov 25, 2014 -> 02:19 PM) That's not exactly downplaying the racial stereotyping linked with calling a bunch of black people animals, though, because that's just another racist stereotype. Just to be clear because I can't think of a way to rephrase that sentence, I'm not saying you're racist or what you just said was racist but pointing out the racial subtext behind calling a bunch of black people animals. lol, man to be fair you can find a racial subtext behind anything.

QUOTE (MexSoxFan#1 @ Nov 25, 2014 -> 01:49 PM) Source? Life experience...haven't you heard that minorities are distrustful of the police? Why is that? Whites don't commit crimes? Myself, I've had bad experiences with the police, especially when I was living in Southern California just because I had my hair a certain way, I had shaved my head, it was a really hot summer and I went from long hair (metal fan) to shaved head and I got pulled over frequently for bulls*** reasons. A redneck cop even asked to see my prison gang tats, never mind that I didn't dress like a cholo and never was in a gang nor in prison. I've even been handcuffed as they searched my car and had a gun in my face. Yeah, I don't like cops because I have my reasons. A Riverside cop who was going out with my cousin (he was Mexican American), told me that a lot of his fellow cops were indeed racists and liked messing with minorities just for the f*ck of it. Whites aren't fearful of the police because they don't f*** with you, minorities are wary of the police because we get hassled by them, sometimes for no reason at all. I got hassled by them because apparently, young Latinos can't drive in nice cars in white neighborhoods with a white girl on the passenger side... Oh i've heard it. I've heard there's an "epidemic" of police acting "with impunity" towards blacks. I don't really buy it though. I do think there is a class issue when it comes to policing, but not a racial one (directly anyway).

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Nov 25, 2014 -> 12:40 PM) It isnt a movie i will go out of my way to see in the theater, but I will watch it when i can rent it Same. It bothers me that it's the same story as the original ("here's a park full of dinosaurs, it's perfect...oh s***, something went wrong, panic!") and it looks super cheesy. The whole fake-sea world thing? Really?

QUOTE (MexSoxFan#1 @ Nov 25, 2014 -> 01:04 PM) For every one of those instances, literally dozens are white on black. Source?

QUOTE (illinilaw08 @ Nov 25, 2014 -> 12:31 PM) Then don't take it before the Grand Jury period. Don't charge. The ultimate result is the same - community outrage. What we have here is a community that doesn't feel served by the justice system. Who suspects that if the police made an arrest on conflicting stories (police say one thing, witnesses say another) that the prosecutor wouldn't have presented both sides of the argument. He would have gotten his indictment and moved on. That's the problem. Prosecutors try cases on weak evidence all the time. For right or wrong, the perception in the Ferguson community is going to be that the prosecutor did Wilson a favor and went out of his way to not get an indictment. You have a community that thinks nothing more than "unarmed black teen dead, all cops hate black people." Evidence, trials, whatever isn't going to appease them. See: Martin, Trayvon.

QUOTE (MexSoxFan#1 @ Nov 25, 2014 -> 07:40 AM) When I first heard of this story and before the identity of the victim was released, I told friends and co-workers that I would be shocked if the victim wasn't black and the cop wasn't white... Yeah, I went there. Cuz black cops never shoot white people http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2014-06...haron-mangerson or commit excessive force violations http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/b...1125-story.html

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Nov 25, 2014 -> 12:15 PM) Ezra Klein: Officer Darren Wilson's story is unbelievable. Literally. What a s*** article. "i'm not saying he's lying, i just find it difficult to believe!" Yeah, it's difficult to believe that massive teenager who just assaulted a guy in a store would talk so disrespectfully to a police officer! Totally incomprehensible!

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Nov 25, 2014 -> 12:07 PM) Or, as others have asked for since the start, bring in an outside DA to evaluate and pursue the case. I mean I don't have a problem criticizing them for that, I guess. That would have been preferable. But it still doesn't really change the evidence or ultimately what the GJ decided.