Jenksismyhero

QUOTE (DrunkBomber @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 01:32 PM) I dont know if Id call Cutler a huge disappointment. He led the Bears to the NFC Championship with Devin Hester as his number 1 WR and since then he has been behind brutal offensive lines. In regards to Minnesota as a common opponent, lets also remember the Bears beat the Vikings when Cutler played and that Cutler had a few great late game comebacks in the beginning of the season. The playcalling has also seemingly improved as the season has went on. I think the mistake a lot of people are making is assuming they know how much each QB will want to remain a Bear. Cutler has stated on his radio show that he knows his injury will cause him to have to settle for less money. He also has a family in Chicago and finally has an offense and coach who can bring out his full potential. Who is to say he wouldnt be willing to sign a team friendly deal? Also, what if a team is willing to throw 4-5 million at McCown? Unlikely, but until we know what these guys are gonna want its kind of ridiculous to argue about it. If Cutler is asking for the moon and McCown is willing to remain on a similar contract hes on now then this is a legitimate argument, but until then whats the point? Makes the work day go by faster.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 12:58 PM) How about f*** Jay Cutler for making this decision hard. What a colossal disappointment from initial expectations. +10000000000000000000000 Cutler and Peavy were the "OMG it's finally going to happen!" trades. Both huge f***ing disappointments.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 12:17 PM) No, it isn't. You're just being silly now. eta: you could very well be right about McCown being much smarter than Cutler, but let's see some evidence beyond TD:INT and "don't you watch the games?!" I realize that what I'm asking for would be a lengthy piece for a professional sports writer and would take a ton of effort to produce, though. It would. You need the advanced stats like Time to Throw.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 12:00 PM) I understand that you're not following the argument, but it's not that complicated. If we want to talk about QBs making good decisions, you can't look only at the number of INTs they have. It misses all of the times that they made really poor decisions but were lucky with them. Nobody has said anything close to what you're trying to parody here. Many, including you, are arguing that he can keep up pretty phenomenal and completely unprecedented (for him) pace. That's not the argument because that's not how football/economics works e.g. you might have to pay twice as much to get 10% better production. That's your argument! "Look guys, he had two dropped interceptions last night. I'm ignoring all of the good throws he made and pointing to two out of 70 to show you that he's not as smart as you think." Come on. And the TD:INT ration isn't the be all end all statistic, but it's an important one. And you know what it's better than? The 13 to 8 ratio that Cutler has (and he's had some dropped int's too! Totally not smart with the ball!)

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 11:52 AM) Good point! Deep passes are never considered a threat with Trestman. Wait.... Oh, so deep passes are important? Whoops. McCown has had a couple of deep passes. He is nowhere near the deep threat that Cutler is. And it's not just depth, but longer throws across the field or harder throws to get into tighter windows. Cutler can make those throws while McCown can't. He left earlier in the game. No, he wasn't playing well and yes McCown stepped in and did. How is McCown "in more control of the offense"? What does that mean? What is the evidence that he's calling better audibles? How do you know when he's calling audibles? The deep ball is not essential to the system. At all. The Bears have scored on more long, sustained drives than at any time I can remember. That's the west coast system. Yes, they occasionally throw it deep, its not frequent enough to need a QB with an arm like that. Do you watch the games? If you can't agree that how McCown operates the offense is better than Cutler I'm just down arguing with you. You're not watching the same games i'm watching. The ball moves around much better with McCown. McCown is actually reading the progressions. It's absolutely noticeable how each respective QB operates in the system. That's not to say Cutler can't get better, i'm sure he will. But I just don't know how much better he'll be than how McCown is playing now. And yes, you can tell the audible when he walks up to the line, points to a bunch of guys and says "oh s***! they're coming" and then executes a perfect screen play. He's done it several times this season and multiple times last night. Cutler wasn't doing that at the beginning of the season. He'd retreat backwards and then throw the ball at someone's feet. Again, not saying McCown is some pro bowler. I'm defending him more than I should. I just don't agree with you that he's some nobody who has just gotten lucky over his "brief" time as a starter. He's been very, very good. And I think you're overstating how good Cutler is/will be.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 11:44 AM) Remember when NE let Brady go after Cassel had that good season and proved it was really just the system and the QB didn't matter? Lol. Wow. That's an awesome comparison to this situation. 2013 Cutler and 2008 Brady had equal careers.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 11:43 AM) Thanks for bringing up the stat, which is exactly the point. That TD:INT ratio doesn't tell the whole story about whether a player is making smart decisions with the ball. If McCown throws it right to the DB 50 times but they always drop it, wouldn't it be pretty silly to talk about how he always makes great decisions? Actually, he had the longest gap between red zone interceptions until earlier this year with that tipped ball. He hadn't thrown one since 2010. Nobody is arguing that Cutler doesn't make dumb decisions, though. Just that how "smart" McCown is is overstated by seven games worth of TD:INT. I have no idea what you're arguing anymore. You're pointing to bad throws by QB's as some kind of sign that they're not smart. Ok? Peyton Manning has some dropped interceptions too. NOT A HALL OF FAMER. No one is claiming McCown is Peyton Manning. No one is claiming McCown can keep up this pace. The argument is whether Cutler is 5 times the QB since that's going to be the cost the Bears have to consider in keeping him.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 11:42 AM) What about based on the game where they played the same opponent with the same team? Redskins: J. McCown 14/20 204 10.2 1 0 1-7 94.6 119.6 J. Cutler 3/8 28 3.5 0 1 1-6 0.1 8.3 Detroit: Game 1 J. Cutler 27/47 317 6.7 2 3 3-31 36.6 65.6 Game 2 J. Cutler 21/40 250 6.3 1 1 1-9 47.2 69.8 J. McCown 6/9 62 6.9 1 0 1-3 93.3 123.4 But you are right, lets give Cutler a blank check, because what if he is good. What I find funny is that people are making excuses for a guy who is going to want $100mil + at age 31 with stats that are worse than a journeyman. And you guys are just lining up to pay him. His entire career up to this point doesn't count because X, Y, Z................. he's got a cannon for an arm dammit! We must pay for him!

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 11:34 AM) What system doesn't have deep passes as an important play or at least important to be a credible threat? Um, this one? Also, can McCown make 30-40 yard passes? Yes. See the Jeffrey catch last night. But that still makes no sense when looking at it on a game by game basis. In the middle of the Washington game McCown came in with the same offense and played immensely better than Cutler. Same thing in the Lions game. Also, at some point you have to acknowledge that the guy with the ball calling plays for the last 7-8 games (when the entire offense got better) has some role in the offense getting better. I see a guy who is in more control of the offense, calls better audibles, makes better decisions with the ball, etc.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 11:31 AM) McCown being smarter with the ball keeps being a big selling point for him, so we should actually look at the decisions he's making, not just the outcomes. Yesterday, he made two really dumb decisions (or bad throws) that thankfully were dropped, but they were still not smart plays on his part. Let's see some evidence that McCown really is smarter with the ball, and that the difference is big enough to make up for the clearly inferior physical talents. Did you miss the 13 to 1 TD:INT ratio? You're unnecessarily pooh poohing a guy away who has had one of the best stretches as a Bears QB EVER, in the history of the franchise. Do we really want to go through the tape to find a bunch of awful throws Cutler has made over the years? Didn't he lead the league for a long stretch with the most red zone interceptions?

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 11:22 AM) Yeah, that remains a very important part of the equation. We're looking at how Cutler and the offense performed in the first few weeks with a brand new system versus how McCown has performed as the rest of the offensive unit learns that system more and more. There are a lot of throws that Cutler can make and McCown can't. That's basic, objective fact. I really find it hard to believe that anyone truly thinks this offense isn't better with an objectively better QB who is a real threat deep. This system isn't designed for the deep ball, so that skill is nice but unnecessary. Also, why does it matter that Cutler hasn't had time to adjust to the system (not really true btw, he had the offseason, preseason, and 7-8 games with starter reps) when McCown didn't either? McCown literally came into two games this year without any practice and performed immensely better than Cutler. And it had nothing to do with his physical abilities.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 11:19 AM) Seven games is a very small sample. It's a complete crapshoot to believe that McCown will continue to put up 100+ QB ratings for the rest of this season and then into next year. Oh I agree. But I think he's a mid 90's guy and Cutler is maybe around 100. As SB just said, that upgrade is not worth the cost. Now, having argued all this, if they can sign Cutler to a long term deal at a discount and backload some of the cap stuff then I'd be fine with that.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 11:16 AM) We have a QB who is a safer bet with a higher upside and possibly one of the best offensive teams in the league while developing/drafting defensive players. Are you under the impression we are buying defensive fill ins in the offseason? I see that a a huge gamble and waste of money. I agree he's the safer bet and I agree he's a much better QB. I just don't think the 12-14 million he's going to cost is going to get you THAT much more, especially if you don't take care of the defense. IMO they'll need one if not two safeties, at least one linebacker, and at least two if not three defensive lineman. Even if you strike gold and get two draft picks that can start and fill those needs, you'll still need to sign guys. And that's not even counting back ups for depth.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 11:15 AM) I don't agree that it's only a "slight" upgrade. It makes even less sense in the NFL in 2013 or 2014 to let a franchise QB walk, replacing him with a 35 year old journeyman who's had a good half-season. The risk you're taking there is huge. So McCown can't go from journeyman 77 QB rating guy to 109 qb rating guy, but Cutler is going to go from an 85 qb rating to something significantly higher than 110? The risk isn't that huge at all. Let's pretend that Cutler is everything you think he'll be. He's up there with Rogers/Manning/Brees. He's putting up numbers. They're averaging more than nearly 30 points a game (a pipe dream). And yet their defense is STILL going to be terrible because you've handcuffed the GM's ability to sign more guys. And you're still placing all of your chips on a guy who hasn't been able to finish 3 of the 5 seasons he's been here.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 11:11 AM) What part of the modern NFL screams "dump your QB for an old journeyman/rookie crapshoot to marginally improve your defense"? If the Bears could have picked up a yard on two tries last week, they'd be sitting on 8-5 and on top of their division right now even with their horrible defense. Why would you want to knee-cap your offense when you finally have great WRs, a good RB and a serviceable-and-improving line? I honestly don't know, is there some great free agent class coming next year on the defensive side of the ball. It's been 7 games. This isn't a crapshoot.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 11:14 AM) he had two really dumb throws yesterday that was just luck/painfully cold that they were dropped. 75% completion percentage isn't good enough?

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 11:10 AM) And I think Cutler is a 100+ QB rating guy with Trestman and this line. Ok great, we have the same QB but 12-14 million less money to spend on the defense that needs to replace approximately 50% of the starters.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 11:09 AM) Substantially. McCown has been putting up a ton of yards, but outside of last night, they've struggled to score points and have lost games because of it. McCown simply cannot make some of the throws that Cutler can, whether it's a deep pass or a pass that needs to be on a rope. And let's not pretend the McCown has been mistake-free, either. There were two easy, easy picks last night that the Cowboys dropped. I'm not suggesting that McCown is a pro bowler or that we should expect that next year. I'm saying that I see a slight upgrade from Cutler to McCown in this system and with all of these weapons. It makes little sense to spend an extra 12-14 million a year on Cutler for that slight upgrade when the defense is so awful.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 11:06 AM) A TON. His time in Chicago has been behind a patchwork line and a few inept coordinators. We finally have a competent offensive mind running the team and he's only had half a season on the field to show his worth. The blocking schemes from last night are night and day compared to when he went out. A ton? Come on. I don't think the offense can get much better than it is right now. They're the 2nd highest scoring team in the league. They have weapons all over the field. I think at best Cutler can be as good as McCown these last 7 games. Maybe slightly better, but at what point is that just a waste of resources? The offense can be the best in the league. Cutler could become the next Manning. If the defense still sucks, it's all for naught.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 11:04 AM) Anyone advocating dumping Cutler for a stop-gap in McCown and drafting a QB late in the first round is insane. We finally have an offense full of talented players, and you want to rely on a journeyman QB who's playing the best he's ever played but is in his mid-30's or a rookie late-1st QB? I ask again, how much better can Cutler play than McCown right now?

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 10:21 AM) But it's not like you dont know what McCown is, he's been around a long time and was just recently out of the league. The difference with him is this staff and I want to see the much more talented Cutler play in this system when healthy. How much better could Cutler play? And is that upgrade more important than upgrading the defense?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 10:09 AM) The big difference between the two is that Jay has the arm to win in the red zone. McCown doesn't. What? This is nonsense. McCown has every tool you need to win in this system. It's not his fault the play calling in the red zone has been pretty terrible this year. Dude can make 20 yard passes all day long just as good as Jay. More importantly, he's never been injury prone, and he's smart with the ball. I used to dream that at best Cutler would be a poor man's Favre, but in reality he's just the next Jeff George. He still doesn't get "it." For every wow play he can make with his arm, he makes another, absolutely dreadful decision. To me you get an appreciable upgrade with Cutler in physicality but i'm not sure you get the smarts to go with it. And you're doing it at the expense of being able to sign more guys on defense. If the defense was average McCown would be undefeated right now with his current 109 QB rating in 7.1 games. We'd all be happy as clams that this team was not only good but a super bowl contender. McCown isn't the future, but he's a quality starter who could bridge the gap to the next franchise guy. Emery might miss on him, but so what? You're rebuilding major portions of the team in a few years anyway. The window is now. If he can upgrade the defense more without Jay, I say do it.

McCown could be a stop gap for a year as they groom the next QB from the draft. Here are your choices next year: (1) Resign Cutler and make minimal improvements to the defense. (2) Let Cutler walk and make moderate improvements to the defense. If your goal is to win in the next 2 years, you choose option 2. This is their window. Right now before all of their aging defensive stars are too old to play. I think Tillman (resign him) and Briggs have another year or two left in them. Sign at least one decent safety and draft another along with some pass rushers. Then hope that Bostic develops after an offseason and Briggs is still at his pro-bowl form. IMO if they resign Cutler you're looking at the same team as this year - around .500, no serious threat to make the playoffs or make any noise once you get there because the defense will still be terrible. And you can't be confident that Cutler would actually play the whole year. He's injury prone.

QUOTE (pettie4sox @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 08:49 AM) You don't think he would take the job? No way. I think he gets the Texans job.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 08:41 AM) It really is. They got to get the defensive side of the football figured out. Bring back Lovie! Bring back Lovie! (no, not really)