harfman77

QUOTE(WCSox @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 03:44 PM) The Red Sox and A's don't have much at 2B. Not sure if Tad is enough to get anything back of value, though. There is almost no way I'd trade Danks, especially with Mark on his way out and Contreras looking like he's in the twilight of his career. The Red Sox rookie Pedroia is hitting .316 and they just moved him to lead off. I dont know if Tad is an upgrade over Mark Ellis either.

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 03:41 PM) Do you see their farm system now? Who are they promoting now? In the future? I don't see a difference between what you are talking about and the way it is now. The amount of value the Marlins would need to get in return would cripple the Sox financially? Please explain. Because we would no longer be able to bring up pitching prospects to fill in open spots in the rotation because every major league quality pitching prospect would be in the Marlins organization. And if we have no talent to bring up, how are you going to Cabrera in the first place? QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 03:43 PM) Jesus you're snippy today. If you really think the Sox are going to raise payroll by $25M after this year then you're out of your mind. Their pattern is to put all the money they make through attendance back into the payroll, this year's attendance will probably turn out to be moderately higher than last year hence a $4-$5M increase in payroll. If they're going to raise payroll to $120M like you seem to be suggesting then they're going into red and dipping into their own pockets, something JR and crew have never done. You can go ahead and assume I'm wrong since I'm not the cooperate accountant but you're going to be very disappointed when they spend somewhere between $90-$100M next year. The one thing that could change this is the revenue that the teams will receive from the new Extra Innings deals.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 03:31 PM) The only way would be to deal Dye and Buehrle, and trade all the players received as well as some of our better prospects. Florida desperately needs OFs. They currently are playing the likes of Joe Borchard, Reggie Abercrombie, and Alfredo Almazega (sp?) in the OF. They have a lot of quality pitching, but would undoubtedly take more. They also could use a young 1b. If you could get Loney from the Dodgers, give them Fields and Sweeney, and then whatever pitching and OF prospects you've received for Buehrle, you might be able to interest them. However, I think they'd like to keep him at all costs- he's what makes that offense go along with HanRam and Uggla. They have Jacobs at 1B, who is pretty young and has good pop. Plus they have Gaby Hernandez who will either play third or first and should be a decent player. Hermida is back out in RF so they think they should be OK there. They need an upgrade in CF over the platoon of Abercrombie and Almeazaga, and LF seems to be in good hands with Willingham. Their holes would be 3B and CF, Fields would fill 3B but unfortunatley all of our CF prospects have come up and fallen on their face so to speak. Then amount of value that the Marlins would need to get in return would cripple the Sox financially. We would have no prospects to promote and would have to live and die through free agency until the farm system could be rebuilt.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 03:21 PM) Mark and JD should definitely go and we should be able to get A LOT in return. I'd also strongly consider dealing Iguchi. I'd keep AJ because, despite his salary, we have nothing behind him. The problem with dealing Iguchi is that pretty much everyone in contention at this point is solid at 2B. I would trade anyone that we got value for. No one is untouchable, thats silly to say that anyone person can not be had, everyone has a price. If someone wants Danks then you ask for their top three prospects in return, if they balk you say thanks for your interest but that is the price and go about your business until they are willing to meet it.

The problem is our scouting has been so bad that we dont have enough prospects organization wide to bring back Cabrera. He is getting pretty bulky too, so I think his career in the OF may be over. But he is one of the best hitters around and I would spend whatever it took to get him. What I read on either ESPN or from Rosenthal, cant remember which is that the Marlins are afraid that his arbitration price will be too high and thats why they might look at dealing him. Maybe a package of Fields, Cunningham, Anderson, Danks and Gio could get him. But I think that is too high of a price to pay for this organization to be successful long term.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 11:21 AM) 1.) The Dodgers have ZERO use for Contreras and he doesn't have nearly as much value as you think. He's somewhere in his 50's and appears to be breaking down I doubt you could get more than a couple fringe prospects for him at this point in time especially with $20M still left on his deal after this season. 2.) Thome's not waiving his no trade clause again especially to go to New York. The only reason he even waived it in the first place was to come home to the Chicago land area. There's a reason why he has the clause and he's going to take advantage of it. 3.) Callaspo is an wife beater so no thanks there, Byrnes is a free agent after this season and having an infinitely better season than Dye. That trade makes no sense from their point of view. 4.) The Red Sox have the Greek God of walks at 1B who's having one hell of a season so I doubt the Red Sox would be willing to give up so much good young talent to fill a hole that does not exist. Besides that Paul Konerko is not getting traded. 5.) Jenks? For that package? Samardzija is a completely worthless piece of s***, he's lost all velocity, can't strike any one out and is walking the world. I'm not trading a power armed closer for a slap hitter in Theriot and an expensive, just plain bad pitcher in Samardzija. 1. Dodgers need a fifth starter still, Kuo pitched well but no one thinks he is the year long solution. And as I said we would send cash to the Dodgers to pay off Contreras. So basically they have Contreras for cheap and they get rid of Loney who has been discontented with the organization all year. 2. Thome would waive his no trade clause to win a championship, and thats not going to happen here anymore while he is still here. 3. Callaspo did get in trouble, but a lot of players have I think we can afford to give another chance, the second chance thing seemed to have worked for Jenks. Byrnes has been hot and Dye has been cold but I dont think anyone would say that Byrnes is in anyway better than Dye. 4. Red Sox want to get rid of Lowell and move Youk back to third, which is why they were looking at Helton in the offseason. Huseby throws mid 90's last I saw was Samardjia was throwing 92-95. I think that you can project both to the bullpen and be happy. And yes we want slap hitters, that is why this team stinks because we have no one who can get on base, it is all or nothing. We need more baserunners and slap hitters seem like the only way to get that done. 5. Jenks has come in to spring continually in worse shape than he was the year before, he is losing velocity on his pitches.

I was thinking of what I would try to do to reload this organization with some talent, and with what should be an upcoming firesale I wanted to take a stab before KW screws it up. Trade Contreras and cash to the Dodgers for James Loney and Ivan DeJesus Jr. - Dodgers are trying to make a push and have Loney blocked in the OF and at 1B for a while. DeJesus or Hu for that matter would give the Sox a decent MI prospect and the Dodgers would still have Mattingly and either Hu or DeJesus left. Trade Thome to the Yankees for Melky Cabrera and Delin Betances - Yeah I know he has a no trade - he has waived it before, and would do it again. With Giambi out for the year, and his NY future in question the Yanks need a bat from the left side. Melky could immediately start in LF for the Sox and Betances would give the Sox a projectable arm in the system Trade Dye, McDougal and Broadway to the D-backs for Eric Byrnes, Alberto Callaspo, Emilio Bonifacio and Carlos Gonzales - The Dbacks are an outfield bat short right now from having a playoff team, Dye could resign with them as he has a home in the area. Bonificacio and Callaspo add more organization depth in the MI and Callaspo could fill Pablos roll as utility man. Gonzales would give the Sox a good outfielder who is a couple years a way and Byrnes could split time in CF for the rest of the year. Dbacks will also lose one if not two SP's at the end of the year so Broadway can fill in as their number 5 next year. Trade Buerhle and Mackowiak to the Braves for Saltamacchia and Devine - Braves need another SP to plug in their rotation and Buerhle will be affordable enough for them to make a run this season. Salty is blocked by McCann and if the Braves think that Thorman can handle first, Salty will be dealt. Trade Konerko and Anderson to the Red Sox for Ellsbury and Jon Lester - Konerko wont be much good on a team that has been blown up, and would benefit the Red Sox by sticking him after Manny. The Red Sox have been trying to trade Mike Lowell and move Youk back to third. We can either take Lowell if they want to dump his contract or they can spin him off, maybe to the Padres for something else. Trade Jenks and Podsednik to the Cubs for Samardzija, Chris Huseby, and Ryan Theriot Sox Lineup for the rest of 2007 would be: C S Saltamacchia 1B L Loney 2B R Iguchi SS R Uribe 3B R Fields LF L Erstad CF S Cabrera RF Byrnes DH Pierzynski Bench S Callaspo R Theriot R Hall R Terrero S Cintron SP Garland Vazquez Danks Lester Haeger RP Aardsma Thornton Bukvich Logan Day Massett Prinz 2008 Lineup C S Saltamacchia 1B L Loney 2B R Theriot SS S Callaspo 3B R Crede LF S Cabrera CF L Ellsbury RF Sweeney DH R Fields Bench Open S Cintron R Hall R Terrero SP Garland Jennings * free agent Lester Vazquez Danks RP Thornton Logan Devine Massett Aardsma Samardzija Sisco/anyone who can throw strikes Trade Pierzynski at the end of the season for whatever bullpen help you can get for him and get building.

I think you have to start shopping Mark to the Braves and Mets and play them against each other. They both have a lot of good talent and both would be significantly impacted if the other picked him up. This could drive up his value and land you a really nice package. Maybe even something like F Martinez, D Guerra/Humber, and Milledge. Or you can go to the Braves and get Salty, Lillibridge/Andrus, and Devine. I think that you can use the Colon trade as framework for the asking price.

I really can't see the new tight walleted ownership in Atlanta shoveling out the money that it would take to land Griffey.

If we would trade Dye to the Dodgers it would need to be for Billingsley and either Hu or DeJesus Jr., maybe even Mattingly I guess if we wait a couple weeks. But someone who will lend middle infield dpeth to the organization. Two organizations have given up on Betemit in two years, we don't need that kind of trouble right now.

QUOTE(Sonik22 @ Jun 8, 2007 -> 12:31 PM) The thing is some of the players don't sign and go to college. Lots of MLB players have come from the later rounds. Buehrle was in the in the 20 rounds i think I think Buerhle was a 38th rounder. Roy Oswalt was picked in the 18th round. So there is talent to be found later in the draft.

Wow 6 pitchers and now three straight CF's. At least we are consistent.

I have had time to step off the ledge. I was initially freaking out over the pick. I still dont like the Poreda pick very much, I think that we have pretty decent pitching depth in the organization and that a college player with one pitch like Poreda has a low ceiling. I think if we are going to be drafting college players they should be position players to add depth to the system, for pitching I think at this point we need to aim for high ceiling projectable guys. Our organization is flooded with middle of the rotation starters, but we lack a true ace type prospect anywhere. I like the pick of Griffith for that reason, but I dont think he projects quite that high. To me I project our five guys this way: Poreda: 4-5 starter with a good possibility of taking Thorntons place in the pen Griffith: 3-5 starter Ely: 4-5 starter or middle relief Hunt: MR/SU Jones: This one is a head scratcher, he seems to have some control problems throwing nine WP's last year I dont think he projects as a major leaguer at all at this point by checking his stats. So I think we have some solid guys, but we have a lot of solid guys already with the Broadways and McCullochs of the world we need to try and get some premier guys, I know that a lot of them bust, but we have solid players now that can fill in.

The Braves took the Gilmore kid from here, I was hoping we would take him.

QUOTE(RibbieRubarb @ Jun 7, 2007 -> 03:31 PM) Not one losing season in his tenure and one world series... This kid hasn't thrown one pitch yet, but you're ready to fire everyone. Smart. Thank God you're not running this organization or you'd be screaming for your own firing! No organizational depth at any position and marginal pitching depth. Yeah that is a terrific GM. The kid is a one pitch pitcher, he could have been had in the second round just as well. This is too many drafts where we have taken too many low ceiling prospects and the results are showing in our minor league system. This is ridiculous. So we draft another Royce Ring when we need depth at every position, great move. And the Boras thing as to end we are passing on way to many players every year because of their association with Boras, it is time to kiss and make up. The Sox are a mess, the minor league system has little depth, KW has failed at maintaining either, he should go.

Royce Ring II

Great another f***ing incosistent college pitcher will little upside. Its time for KW and his staff to go.

QUOTE(IowaSoxFan @ Jun 7, 2007 -> 03:26 PM) I think it will be Jackson Crap....its not

I think it will be Jackson

QUOTE(beck72 @ Jun 7, 2007 -> 01:50 PM) The sox would be better off trying to work a deal for Baldelli. They could get him pretty cheaply, and were reportedly interested in him in the offseason. While he is injury prone, the sox need to start stockpiling talented young position players. Maybe move him to a corner OF spot to save his legs. Baldellis hurt more often than Podsednik. It is probably true that we have to give up on Crawford because we dont have the pieces to acquire him. Ellsbury and Gomez are other options but I think they may be as difficult to acquire as Crawford.

I dont care, pay the price. Only guy that is untouchable to me is Danks. Everyone else can go.

QUOTE(BearSox @ Jun 6, 2007 -> 10:17 AM) Obviously, for political reasons, that will never happen... Plus, I couldn't bare to see my PK with another team It will probably never happen, but it would be a move that would set the organization into rebuilding and would show that they were serious about cleaning house. At this point I am so disappointed in the way these guys have hit, I am all for trading all of them and bringing up the AAA guys that will fight and scratch and claw to stay up in the majors.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Jun 4, 2007 -> 10:13 PM) The White Sox have remained competitive for the past 15 years, and every year of Kenny's tenure. As we all know, very few of our impact players have come from our farm system. Name all of the bad contracts KW has handed out. Don't compare this organization under Kenny's reign to that of the Yankees. He's run it far more smoothly than that organization has been run. Its not about the bad contracts, name impact players that Kenny has brought through the farm system. Our drafts have been terrible, our international scouting a joke. We are in a division where Detroit has loaded their pitching form their farm system with Bonderman, Verlander, Zumaya, Miller and added pieces around them. The Twins continue to find and trade for minor league talent - Santana, Liriano, Slowey and have had some great drafts getting Mauer, Garza and Morneau. The bottom line is you cant stay competitive over the long term by building teams through free agency, the Cubs and Yankees are the poster children for this, and the Dodgers have been until now. And as far as being competitive for the last 15 years it depends on your definition: 2006 90-72 .556 2005 99-63 .611 2004 83-79 .512 2003 86-76 .531 2002 81-81 .500 2001 83-79 .512 2000 95-67 .586 1999 75-86 .466 1998 80-82 .493 1997 80-81 .497 Looking at those numbers it appears to me we have only been competitive 4 of the last 10 years

I think Lowell could be an option to finish out this season. Send Konerko to the Red Sox for Ellsbury and Lowell. The Red Sox want to move Youk back to third and have been shopping around for a first basemen. If you cant trade Crede you can play Lowell at first until his contract is up and net some draft picks when he walks.

KW must go first for failing to assemble a solid base of talent. He has brought in a bunch of wanna be sluggers who cannot put the ball in play consistently. The whole scouting department is a mess and that falls back on KW. I dont care who the manager of this team is, if the players cant play the game we are not going to win.