Roughneck

Maybe, but isn't Nightengale the one who has always been Kenny's mouthpiece? If so, him putting this out there might potentially hurt the Sox's position with Machado and jeopardize his contacts.

With no "official" offers to Harper or seemingly Machado before today, I wonder what this means. They clearly were talking about dollars with both guys. They haven't spent 2 weeks detailing the best place in the city to get Italian beef. So, does the fact that the Sox are "official" now mean that they have hammered out the details and are expecting Manny to sign? At very least, we're finally ready for the Endgame thread title to return.

But AJ was never the leader of the Sox. After 2005, Konerko was the leader, but he was a shitty leader who mostly grumbled and got pissed off whenever someone else tried to lead. I was pissed at Everett at his comments when he left, but I do believe in retrospect that he was somewhat right about the team not having leaders in 2006. Orlando Cabrera, despite being a huge jag-off, was a leader. That's part of the reason why he butted so many heads in the locker room. I'll always remember Konerko getting pissed and putting Chris Getz into purgatory for having the audacity to say the team was helped by young talent coming up. Anyway, I'd love to have Macado but think the Sox need to pair him with a strong veteran presence, even if it's a crappy player like a David Ross.

Yep. My only hesitation about signing Machado is that he is kind of a dick and isn't a leader or a good example. This is a young clubhouse without any vocal leaders, and I think Machado immediately becomes the leader of the team due to a giant contract. If the Sox do get Machado, I think they need to bring in a no-nonsense graybeard to set the tone in the clubhouse. Kinda like Carl Everett, but not an asshole.

I think it's 50/50 whether Levine was unknowingly leaking false info the Sox wanted him to or if he was just pouty and crapping on the team because he doesn't like when they're mentioned positively. Either way, he's a horribly biased journalist who has historically had bad info.

That's literally what I said. And obviously video games and ASG starts don't help the team at all, but Harper is undeniably the national face of baseball now. It would mean a lot to have a White Sox hat sit atop that face. The Sox fanbase is complicated. It's largely dormant and made up of miserable SOBs who are conditioned to eat crap and not care. There is a sizable portion which hates Reinsdorf. There were people (I know a few) who gave up on the Sox after the '94 strike, blaming Jerry and refusing to give a cent or care about the team as long as he was the owner. And not all of those people came back for the World Series. I think landing Harper is the type of move that says "we are changing the way this franchise operates" more than signing Machado does. I think Harper is the bigger deal for fan perception.

I think Machado is the better player and a position of need for the Sox, Harper is the bigger get. No better way to step out of the shadows than to land the current face of baseball. Machado gets fans excited, but landing Harper and having a White Sox player on video game covers and be the leading vote-getter in the ASG for the next 8 years or so is on a different level. I'd be happy with either guy. I think the Sox jump at whoever goes for them first, obviously. But they could sign both! Both of these guys are getting opt-out clauses. At least one of them would be gone by the time they have to start paying their current youngsters. The only way it backfires is if they both turn into Heyward. I'd roll the dice if I were the Sox, but then again, I'm a dope who isn't in a position to spend $700 million.

Road grays are where it's at. Or at least, they were before they took off the diamond sock.

Absolutely. And we had someone with sources say in another thread that the Sox were "very confident" where they stand with Harper. That's good I guess, but the Sox themselves don't have all the details and don't know for certain what other teams are offering. I'm not running out to Grandstand to order Harper and Machado jerseys based on any of this, but I think for sure that the Sox are very, very serious about landing each of these guys.

And this steers me from "Sox were using Levine to strategically plant rumors" to "Levine is getting miffed people are talking about the Sox and not his beloveds." It would be a "discount" in the same way LeBron took a discount to go to Miami. He took something like $5 or $10 mil less over the course of the entire contract, and the media jerked him off incessantly for his dedication to winning over money. Also very similar to the media narrative that Heyward took so much less money to go to the Cubs. His deal was less back-loaded and usual, but his salaries the first 3 years were in line with what other teams were offering. His plan was to tear things up in Wrigley and hit the market again in 3 years after an opt-out. Reasonable people knew the Cubs weren't really getting a discount, and the only way they would get him for the entire contract is if he was horrible or injured. Luckily for the Cubs, he has been horrible so he didn't opt out and they will keep him at the "discounted rate." So, Harper might "settle" for like $320 million from the Cubs, but he isn't going to go there for nothing just to play with his friend who is a strong possibility to leave in 3 years.

Remember the Cubs kept Bryant down well past he was ready. It was more glaring than the Sox have done with Eloy, and it was a national story. The Players Union filed a grievance over it. Bryant said something along the lines of "I'll remember that when it comes time for free agency." He might like playing for the Cubs and winning, but Bryant isn't going to sign an extension or give the Cubs a hometown discount. He will absolutely take the best offer, even if that means leaving. If the Cubs have $40 mil a year locked up in Harper, along with Baez, Rizzo, etc, it makes it much less likely they could afford Bryant. So Harper signing with the Cubs would mean he gets to play with his friend for 3 years (if that actually is the priority the media makes it out to be), but it would also almost guarantee that Bryant is playing elsewhere in 2022.

I know Carl personally. Last I spoke with him, he was predicting the Sox would sign Harper. Then soon thereafter he started the "Harper supposedly really wants to sign with the Cubs and will wait for them to move salary" stuff, so who knows if he has a legit source for this or if he was given bad info purposefully to drive up the cost for the Sox or something. He was realistic with me that the Cubs had no realistic way of signing Harper without moving Bryant, and said if it was up to him, he'd trade Bryant because he won't resign with the Cubs.

No. The other team would only have the hit for the portion they had to pay Heyward, which would be roughly $5 mil a year.

It has to count against them. Otherwise, the Cubs would pin an $80 million bill to Heyward's coat and send him off to another team so they could sign Harper.

What would Manny Machado want with your testicle? And you're not even giving him the whole set.

Trying to think of a team that does horrifically dumb things to help out teams, and the Marlins came to mind. How do the rules work with teams sending money? If the Dodgers gave Kemp or another high-priced player to the Marlins, but then sent $20 mil to relieve some of his salary, would that $20 mil count against the Dodgers' number? I'd think it has to.

As much as cub fans obsess over the Sox, I really don't think the Cubs organization cares at all if Harper comes here. The media "ZOMG Harper might come to the Cubbies!" fangirling will quickly turn to "Heh, he's overrated and will play in front of 300 fans" if he signs with the Sox. There would be no backlash for Theo. That's what I've been saying. The Sox could easily sign both of these guys. They are both going to opt out in a few years, before the Sox have to pay these kids. The only way the Sox are screwed is if both Harper and Machado turn into Heywards. Obviously not saying the Sox will sign both, but they could.

Thanks. Whenever these tweets with supposed quotes pop up instead of the actual source of the quotes, I'm skeptical.

My guess is they are from nowhere. Don't know if this Wildstein guy is at all reputable or if Bowden actually said that. I very much doubt Bowden is tight with Machado's "friends in Miami."

Yep. Until we get confirmation of a signing, just assume every rumor is bullshit. Whether they have Machado signing with the Yankees or Sox. They are all guesses, lies, or misdirection put out by the teams or Machado's camp. Don't believe any of them. So basically, we've all wasted a week refreshing these boards. I've gotten nothing done at work. Oh, well.

Not how I play. Kill the king. Take no prisoners.

I don't think that's every happening again after the rightful backlash of The Decision. Yeah, but they have 6 hours to make up. Unless they take Manny to a strip club afterwards, Sox win the day!

Tell me about it. His post is like the woman who accuses you of something just because someone else did it.

I think it almost certainly has no impact. Machado is a known great player. The only possible impact could be negative, if they know he's a pain in the ass and a terrible teammate, and they're weighing whether the production is worth it. But it's probably nothing.

Maybe that's the case, but he said repeatedly that he loves playing SS and that's where he always wanted to play. The Orioles were horrible last year, but he still ruffled a lot of feathers around MLB for demanding a position change.