JUSTgottaBELIEVE

Like Holliday, he’s no longer a prospect

I was responding to the other poster’s hypothetical. And I agree, Skenes is far more of a sure thing than Holliday, which is why Holliday has less trade value than Skenes.

Given where the Sox currently stand, yes, I’d take the collective group of Shultz, Smith, and Iriarte over Skenes

So the #63 prospect ended up having a tremendously more productive mlb career than the #8 prospect but yet it’s a sure thing Holliday will have a better mlb career than Justin Crawford? 🤷‍♂️

Yea... I never said don’t trade for top prospects. No idea where you got that from. I said I’d much prefer a package of 3-4 top prospects over the 1 “can’t miss” prospect.

As mentioned above, I think the Sox only did well in the Q trade because they traded for multiple prospects. Eloy was a consensus top 5-10 mlb prospect at the time while Cease was just starting to crack top 100 lists. You view Holliday as the only potential star of the five players referenced between the Os and Phillies while I say the Sox are just as likely to find a star in that Phillies package with the potential added bonus of another mlb starter because of the quantity involved. I also don’t think Holliday is a lock to be an mlb star so that’s probably where our primary disagreement lies regarding value.

Ok, so you’d take Holliday rather than the Phillies package. I disagree.

^Same question for you that I asked @Dick Allen above, yes or no?

Simple yes or no question for you… You would prefer Holliday alone over a package of Crawford+Caba+Saltiban+DeMartini from the Phillies? Because I believe that’s the type of package it’s going to take for the Phillies to land Crochet.

And it took that entire collective group just to make consecutive postseason appearances. Acquiring Holliday alone doesn’t move the needle. Caba+Crawford+Saltiban+DeMartini probably doesn’t either but at least it has the potential to fill 2-3 mlb roster holes in a couple years.

When the Sox acquired Yoan Moncada, I’d say where he was at in his career at that point was about as perfect as a comp to where Holliday is at in his career right now. Would you agree? If Holliday has the same career Moncada has had with the Sox, and he is the sole return for Crochet, would you consider that a good trade for the Sox? And yes, I totally agree re: Cease. Acquiring both Eloy and Cease in the Q trade was the key to that trade. Not just acquiring the one big name guy at the time (Eloy). How would that trade be viewed today if Cease wasn’t also included as Eloy flamed out? Thus, why I’d prefer 3-4 quality prospects as the return for Crochet rather than one “can’t miss” guy in Holliday…

Never said I didn’t want him. I said I wouldn’t trade Crochet for him. Big difference…

It’s wild how good the Central is this season outside of the Sox. Reminds me of the NFC North.

Yoan, Eloy, and Luis were all “just about major league ready” too. How did that work out? You argue that the Sox won’t be competitive until 2030 anyways so why acquire a player whose service time has already started as the lone return for your best asset? Makes no sense.

I know you’re being a sarcastic asshole but my solution was to acquire several high upside prospects instead of one “can’t miss young guy.” As stated earlier in the thread, I’d prefer a package of Crawford, Caba, Saltiban, and DeMartini over Holliday alone.

Yoan Moncada, Eloy Jiménez, and Luis Robert were highly touted too.

Exactly why they shouldn’t be putting all their eggs in one basket while trading their best asset…

Arm strength isn’t some type of mystery sabermetrics stuff. Radar guns have been around for a long time you know.

I’m looking at his Savant numbers from this season and last and they certainly don’t scream SS to me. In fact, they’re below average even for an mlb 2b.

21 in two months. Is there evidence of arm strength improving that much after age 21? If so, I can’t wait to see what Masyn Winn’s arm is going to look like in a couple years.

You think he has the arm to be a good SS? I don’t.

You better hit the s%*# out of the ball like Abreu did with the Sox if you don’t play a premium position and expect to get star production. That’s the whole point.

Uh huh, just like Yoan Moncada right?

I assume you mean position player and I’d take the under on Jose Abreu’s career 28 fWAR with the Sox.

Do we know Holliday will be a real good 2b in mlb? If he’s the next Jose Altuve then sure let’s trade one of the best SP in the game for him but we don’t even know if he’ll be as good as Nico Hoerner.