Jeremy

Egbert. I'd like to see Poreda in the pen.

Probably my least favorite Sox player of all time.

Not to criticize the bio, but it drudged up some bad feelings for me. I'd almost forgotten about the arguments I was constantly involved in with other Sox fans back in the day about whether Garland was a bust or whether he'd be a legit major league pitcher. I think it's a little disgraceful that the guy was a solid starting pitcher (190+ IP with a league average ERA) in his early twenties and fans were going around calling him "Judy" and questioning whether he'd "pan out."

Alexei's made some slick plays at 2B but he looks wild out there at times and his fielding metrics are very mediocre at 2B. I'm not sure he can handle SS particularly well. I'd prefer to consider Beckham the SS of the future until he shows he can't play the position. We can try Alexei at SS next season and see how that works.

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Jul 26, 2008 -> 10:54 AM) Bring on Liriano. He ain't the same pitcher he was before the injury and probably won't be cause his slider won't be near as wicked. Liriano ain't a slouch, he still probably will be a top of the rotation guy, but I don't think he will be as dominant as he was. Complete recovery from Tommy John surgery is highly common.

This is at least two threads today where I've seen people itching to trade Fields. Considering that he's our current third basement and our most sensible option going forward after this season, that seems crazy to me. Why have we waited this long to put Linebrink on the DL? It would seem that at this point, if we put him on the DL retroactively, he'll be eligible to come off pretty much immediately. If we just call up one of our stronger pitchers from the minors, we'll be much better off than we were today. Ozzie needs to adapt to the current state of the bullpen. Dotel should've pitched most of the seventh and eight innings tonight, even if it meant he wouldn't be available for a couple games. This was a situation where we absolutely needed one of our best relievers on the mound. If the same situation arises tomorrow, then that's when you sacrifice and go with someone shaky like Masset. The bullpen may need to be reorganized, particularly if we don't make a trade. Jenks and Dotel should pitch the late innings and pretty much everything else should be up for grabs as of right now. Considering how bad guys like Masset and Logan are struggling, it's entirely possible that Haeger, Wasserman, or Egbert could be our third or fourth best reliever right now.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 16, 2008 -> 01:48 AM) I have my fears about Josh Fields and I just get a sort of vibe from the White Sox organization that they are not a huge fan of his looking towards the future. A high strikeout rate, a low average, and an inability to hit a fastball to go along with a hitch in his swing that is probably the biggest reason why he can't catch up to the fastball leave me thinking that Fields is more likely to be a bust than a #5 hitter. Sure, if that hitch is ever fixed and he can catch up to the fastball while recognizing the breaking ball and only striking out 150 times, he could be a Ryan Howard type prescence in the lineup, but I see a Rob Deer prescence in the lineup far more likely at this point in time. I haven't gotten any such vibes from the organization. I guess the reports are conflicting but it sure seemed like the Sox were trying to move Crede in the offseason so that Fields could be their 3B for the indefinite future. I guess it's an area where people differ a lot philosophically but I have no problem with a low average, high strikeout player if his OBP and SLG are solid. Field's OPS last season comes within a few points of Crede's All-Star season thus far so I don't see a huge cause for concern. I'm also not sure who our third option would be. Unless Blalock's option is declined, the options in free agency are essentially nil. Almost no matter who you land, he'll probably be earning at least ten times what Fields would earn next season. Ok, so say you hypothetically take Thome at $13 million instead of signing Texiera or Dunn to a huge long term deal, what do you do the next season when he comes off the books? Basically any free agent you're signing will still be overpaid. I guess my philosophy here is that I'd rather overpay a player who looks like a big time producer than someone who doesn't. I'd rather overpay Tex or Dunn than Cabrera and Crede because the production of the latter two is far more easily duplicated or nearly duplicated. I hate absurdly long deals like Soriano's or Zito's but signing Dunn or Tex to six year deals that take them through their 34th birthdays don't seem terribly risky to me. I've never said the organization is infallible or that they can't do anything wrong; they aren't being terribly inefficient with their money though either. Maybe infallible is too strong a word but people seemed to be dismissing my suggestion that we spend money efficiently in the future because we're currently in first place. That makes no sense to me. The idea that I somehow suggested the team is currently being highly inefficient with its money is baffling. I just suggested a few ways the the team could be more efficient with spending its money in the future. It seems indisputable to me that if I'm correct that you can get 80% of the production that Cabrera and Crede provide at something like 7% of the cost and spend the additional money elsewhere, you'll be spending money more efficiently than in the status quo. I don't think that's a huge knock on the organization even though I would've preferred to see us emphasize cheap, young talent a bit more in recent years as we did in incorporating players like Quentin and Alexei into the lineup.

I think the dollar figures people are throwing out for Crede are a bit nuts. I actually have a bet with a friend of mine that he won't get $10 million or more a season. How often to you see a one-time All-Star (who shouldn't have even made the team this season) cash in for a massive pay day? I could understand if he was having a monster season this year, because teams are often stupid like that, but he's not. He ranks 20th among third basement in VORP and 13th out of 21 qualifying third basemen in OPS. It's tougher to argue that his defense makes up for that in light of his propensity to make errors this season. QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 15, 2008 -> 05:48 PM) You're leaving one potential item out...Josh Fields wouldn't stay with this organization too long if Mr. Crede were resigned. He'd clearly be dealt for some piece that would hopefully be moderately useful elsewhere. If you can get Joe Crede signed for what you'd have to think is below market value, I think you have to do so and then move Fields if you're intending on competing next year. We're not in a rebuilding mode right now, as evidenced by the fact that we're at the top of the Central, and holding Crede and trading fields makes us better if Crede is resigned at a reasonable amount. Btu with a Boras client...how many ever sign for reasonable amounts? What's a reasonable amount though? $8 million? I don't see how that's a steal when you have Fields, who can probably put up numbers at least 85% as good as Crede at one twentieth of the cost. You're then spending money even more inefficiently if instead of trading Fields for another young player, you acquire a good but not great veteran who makes a lot of money.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 15, 2008 -> 02:49 AM) I'm among those that don't think that the 3Bman will be either Crede or Fields, though Fields definitely is the most likely to be within the organization. I just don't think there's any way the money will be allowed to be spent on such a risky player in Crede, and Fields is far too much of an uncertainty to take over at the hot corner. I don't see Fields within the organization come 2009. I don't understand what's risky about Fields; it seemed we nearly had him penned in as our starting third basemen for the next several years entering spring training. Is it just that he's a high strikeout player and has had a down year so far this season? Neither seems like a huge concern to me. My next question would be, what type of player are we looking at as our next 3B? Fields has looked like a rock solid young player much of the time IMO and will make something like $400,000 next season. Do you really want to pay someone else $8 million or $12 million (if that's even in the budget) next season? I'd much rather spend it on a different position. QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 15, 2008 -> 02:49 AM) I also don't see any choice in Thome...you can't sit one of your best hitters, and his option will vest by the end of the year. Well if it's true that we'd only be on the hook for $6.5 million, it's a no brainer. Wouldn't you rather sign Texiera or Dunn for $15 million than bring back Thome for $13 million though? I certainly would. By my calculations, Thome is on pace to exceed the number of plate appearances he needs for the option to kick in by only 30, so I'd say it's far from a lock. QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 15, 2008 -> 02:49 AM) But yeah, they're spending money efficiently enough for me...first place come the all star break without much of a hole anywhere in the entire lineup. QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 15, 2008 -> 11:56 AM) As long as the Sox remain in first place, I will consider them spending their money efficiently. I'll never understand why some Sox fans are so incredibly sensitive about any amount of criticism directed at the organization, no matter how constructive. Look, I'm happy we're in first place and think we obviously made some smart moves to get there but I don't see why that would make the organization infallible. You don't think that even if we win 95 games it's not impossible we could've made more moves in the past or can make more moves in the future to win even more? I want the organization to make the best decisions possible whether we're on pace to win 100 games or 50. QUOTE (lostfan @ Jul 15, 2008 -> 07:28 AM) Also IMO Beckham is too far away from MLB to really consider him in this org's plans, especially knowing KW's tendencies. Let's say that hypothetically, Alexei moves to SS, we get Richar or Getz (or both) up to play 2B and they're doing a fine job. Then Beckham, being a top 10 draft pick, is ready for a call-up. What do you do then? Your middle IF is set. Well then, you trade him for something you need, like a 1B, C, or whatever they'll need in 2010... simple. I'd rather trade Getz or Richar, unless one of those guys suddenly looks like a perennial All-Star. Those types of players aren't too hard to come by whereas Beckham is the team's first top ten pick in many years. Let's give him a shot to stick with the organization. QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Jul 15, 2008 -> 04:12 PM) So you want them to spend their money wisely, while at the same time go after soon to be vastly overpaid guys like Tex or Dunn? Doesn't make much sense. Considering how some other teams in our 'league' spend, i'd say the sox are fine: Tigers (Cabrera, Dontrell, Shef) Yankees (almost entire roster) etc. -Swish, a guy comparable to and higher priced/younger Hunter and Rowand, for pennies. -Q - pennies, many years of service -Alexi - dirt cheap, 4 years -2 top 3 starters in Danks and Floyd for nothing -Guys waiting in the wings like Fields, Owens (a trade chip), Getz, Beckam. Based on that, I'd say we have much more "deals" than overpaid guys. Ok, well if we're saving money with those guys - which is the main thing that I advocated in my post - how would you like the save the money we spend if not on players like Texiera or Dunn? Those guys probably aren't even options if Thome's option is just $6.5 million, since Konerko is pretty much unmovable but I'd much rather spend $15 million on one of those guys and go with Fields, Getz, or Richar than spend $15 million combined to resign Cabrera and Crede.

I know it's just Rick Morrisey, but I was horrified to read this sentiment, which some fans must share, in his most recent column: http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sp...,1,43626.column I have a number of problems with Kenny's extreme willingness to move prospects for veterans but IMO the largest problem is that by favoring high priced vets over cheap young talent, we're spending money very inefficiently. Don't get me wrong, I laud Reinsdorf's recent willingness to spend money on this team but whether we have a large or small payroll, spending money wisely is crucial to winning games. While I realize the team would be worse off if Crede had been traded during the offseason, as many of us desired, I don't think that's a reason to consider retaining him beyond the season; the odds that he'll be fifteen times better than Fields (the likely difference between their salaries) or that Fields will experience another lost season are just too slim. Whether that means we'll avoid moving different, more valuable members of the team or that we'll have a large amount of money to add salary via free agency or in a trade, going with Fields over Crede next year should improve the team. Here are a couple more moves I think we can take to spend our money wisely: 1. Let Cabrera walk. First, signing him to a large contract will likely be a nightmare. Someone is going to do it, but it's a terrible gamble for a player who posts a middling OBP (.321 career), SLG (.364 this season), and is getting up there in age (33). Best of all, we finally have a great replacement available in Alexei and another in the pipeline in Beckham. Between Getz, who's having a stellar season in AAA, and Richar, who was recently consider our second basemen of the future, we should be able to find a cheap second basemen next season. 2. Don't pick up Thome's option. He's been much better than people give him credit for this season but $13 million is a ton of money to pay for a 38 year old DH. Agreeing to a lesser salary (if that's possible after declining the option) is one option. Another is to move Paully to DH and then pursue Texiera, Burrell, or Dunn in free agency.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 14, 2008 -> 01:51 PM) At the time the extension was given, I think you'd be hard pressed to believe he would have broken down this quickly. He was electric at the time of the deal and the financial figures were much smaller than what he would have gotten on the open market. I think if you're smart and cautious, a pitcher at that age breaking down is always on your mind. It's not something that always happens gradually. What's always struck me as insane is that we gave Jose the extension with a full season remaining on his previous deal. You have to think that Kenny would've been hesitant to sign Contreras for a lot of money through his 37th birthday after watching him put up a 5.4 ERA in the second half of '06. At that point though, the deal was already done.

Egbert and Haeger are on fire in Charlotte. I'd love to see either of them instead of Contreras but I'd be shocked if that happens. Be it the absurd extension we gave Contreras or the decision not to move him at all costs during the trade deadline last season, Kenny has shown that he's pretty dedicated to Jose.

I think mostly you just have to be patient. I'm pretty positive that Konerko, Thome, Cabrera, and Swisher won't all hit below .225 this season. Anyone who plays fantasy baseball can tell you that if you cut your best hitters when they get off to a bad start, you'll live to regret it something like 8 times out of 10. Firing Walker might not hurt. It's somewhat hard to see what we'd lose by firing him at this point. As others have noted, the one obvious quick fix is to pull Uribe from the lineup and replace him with Ramirez, Ozuna, Getz, or someone off the scrap heap. QUOTE (jasonxctf @ May 5, 2008 -> 09:08 PM) 5) you sit Thome against LHP starters (putting Dye at DH, move Swisher to RF and start Anderson/Owens in CF) and PH him in later in the game if needed Really there's just no reason to put Thome in the lineup against lefties. He can't hit them, the time off might actually help him at this age, and we can improve our defense with Paully or JD shifting over to DH. QUOTE (Gene Honda Civic @ May 5, 2008 -> 09:38 PM) Sure if you ignore the fact that you're sitting Thome, who is feeble against LHP, in favor of Anderson/Owens, who only hope to be feeble against LHP on their best days. When you look at how badly Thome actually hits lefties, I really don't think that's accurate. His three year splits ('05 to '07) have him at .209/.325/.344. That's really, really bad. The fact that Anderson isn't half the hitter Thome is, that doesn't keep him from basically matching those numbers. Anderson's three year splits are a similar .224/.280/.388 and that assumes that he's still as awful at the plate as he was in '06. When you account for how much better our outfield defense is with Anderson in CF, it doesn't seem like a hard decision to me.

Swisher has slumped but I doubt it's because he's been batting leadoff. Speed from a leadoff hitter is drastically overrated IMO.

If people are convinced Richar is a very poor hitter based on the fewer than 200 at bats he had last season, I think that's poor valuation. Either way though, it doesn't remotely justify playing Uribe at 2B. If we don't have someone in the minors (Getz, Richar, Bourgeois) or on the bench (Ramirez, Ozuna) who can outperform Uribe, we should be able to get that type of player from another team at a low price.

I think Owens should stay in AAA not because the team's playing well, but because he's not that good.

Ozzie owes Boone a nice bottle of liquor or something.

Going with MacDougal in such a critical situation is suicide. I have no idea what Ozzie was thinking.

82.

I can't tell you how horrified I am to see one in four posters endorsing starting one of the worst hitting regulars in all of baseball to a position where offensive production is more important than his previous position.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Mar 22, 2008 -> 06:45 AM) And he can work on some things in AAA (e.g making he makes better contact, walks more and strikes out less) I think that's pretty much always true of every young major leaguer. That doesn't make sending them to the minors a good idea, especially when this team's mantra is that we will win games this year and Fields is our best third basemen.

Is the author a White Sox fan? The article sort of reads that way: "I know blaming a declining players struggles on mental issues is a weak excuse but it makes sense here"; "I know virtually ever pitcher develops a new pitch in spring training and impressive results rarely follow but this is different"; "Sure, the Sox look to be sending their best third basemen to the minors but more 'seasoning' won't kill him."

Owens out of the starting lineup and Swisher in the lead off spot? Whoa. I wasn't sure I could still get this excited about this team.

- The thought of Uribe as the starting 2B makes me want to vomit and doesn't get me excited about following White Sox baseball this season. A man can only take so much and this could break my spirit. - I'm a big Quentin backer but I actually wouldn't have a huge problem if Anderson won the starting CF job and Quentin started the season in AAA. Is Anderson really very different than Quentin? He's a guy who was formerly a very good prospect and has struggled in limited major league opportunities. Anderson's minor league resume isn't quite as good but you have to take the fact that he's an outstanding defender and that he plays CF into account. - This article seems to suggest that it's Owens, not Anderson or Quentin, who will be the third starting OF and that's by far the worst case scenario IMO.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Mar 6, 2008 -> 09:06 AM) So what you're telling me, is that IF the goal was to build the best farm system in baseball, you would not trade Swisher? I think you'd have to trade anyone you had with any value, and then anyone else you had whose value you foresaw decreasing. So, regarding Danks/Fields- if you saw their value improving, you'd hold them until their value might peak (probably a full 2 years or so from now). I'm talking about what your goal would be if you were rebuilding and that would be to assemble the most young talent possible, not the best minor league talent possible. You wouldn't turn down a deal for a 22 year old ready to play in the majors (with no service time) because you want to do well in farm system rankings written by members of the media. You'd want young talented players to rebuild so you wouldn't trade Fields or Danks. You'd hold onto them and rebuild with them. As far as Swisher he's 26 already so you'd trade him the way the A's just did. I've previously discussed trading him in this thread. QUOTE(iamshack @ Mar 6, 2008 -> 09:06 AM) But honestly, the A's went from a barren system to one considered to be one of the best systems. And guess how many White Sox prospects they just acquired? 5. So really, how bad was our system if Oakland's is now one of the best, by adding 5 of our prospects? Nah, they got more than just our current and former prospects. Carlos Gonzalez is the best prospect they received. QUOTE(iamshack @ Mar 6, 2008 -> 09:06 AM) You could move Vazquez/Buehrle/Jenks/Dye/OCab/Crede/Swisher/Dotel/Linebrink/Konerko/Contreras? for probably 25-30 new prospects, at least 5-7 of them being solid, top 50-75 prospects. And THAT would put us into the top 3 in farm systems, and still leave us with Danks/Quentin/Fields, who, just might develop into players like the A's just traded to vault from 23 to 2 in one offseason. I don't think they get much for Crede, Dotel, Linebrink, Konerko, and Contreras. Nothing like what the A's got for Swisher and Haren. My question is couldn't most other teams in baseball say this?