beck72

I haven't seen all 15 pages, but my guess is most people dislike this trade? I can't say I like getting rid of BMac. I think he'll be a good SP in the AL, with the ability to regularly post a sub 4.00 ERA. But I really like Danks. And Masset has a high ceiling as well. But for those people saying the sox are writing off 2007--step away from the ledge. The sox have gotten two probable top of the rotation SP's [ in Gio and Danks] and two very good arms [in Floyd and MAsset] for BMac and Freddy. And all four guys the sox have gotten should help the sox in 2007. With the sox top competition being heavy on lefty hitters [Mauer, Morneau, Hafner, Sizemore], getting guys like Danks and Gio into the sox rotation in the next yr or two will make that much better able to beat those teams.

Here's a good summary of Sisco prior to last yr from John Sickels: http://www.minorleagueball.com/story/2006/3/26/123534/751 The only reason Sisco was put in the pen by the Royals was to keep him on the roster the entire yr or they'd lose him back to the Cubs. The part where Sisco came back strong, prepared for spring after getting picked in the Rule 5 draft bodes well for the sox. It's likely he'll come prepared for this spring, pitching in either the rotation or bullpen, depending on his preference [per KW]. After being forced into the bullpen, he can now stay there if he wants. There's something to say about his makeup that he embraced the bullpen role in KC in 2005 and did very well there after being a SP.

QUOTE(joejoedairy @ Dec 17, 2006 -> 09:08 AM) We have enough slow power hitters. Gload could run, hit line drives and hit over 300. We won with good baserunning and clutch hitting. our 3-4-5 is too slow. Not sayin gload should hit 4th or anything but we need some speed in the middle of the lineup Gload's probable replacement for back up at 1B will be Casey Rogowski, who had 20 sb's in 2005 and 26 sb's last yr in AAA, or Mackowiak, who also runs well. Bottom line is Gload was replaceable. Arms like Sisco don't come around that often for the price of a backup 1b man.

QUOTE(shawnhillegas @ Dec 16, 2006 -> 02:46 PM) "top arms" like broadway and booooone? only in the white sox farm system could those be considered top arms. and we dont have any position player prospects at catcher or ss. donny lucy? robert valido? i dont think those guys will draw much, if any, interest. again, the rays have turned down some substantial deals for rocco. Broadway and boone are two of the sox best young pitchers. Are they best the sox have? No. Could the sox do without them? That's the point. Yet they have value. Valido had a bad 2006 but has been very solid prior and still has to be considered a good prospect. As far as deals the Rays have turned down, I haven't seen are heard any publicly. Do you have specifics or any links?

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Dec 17, 2006 -> 12:37 AM) I know people keep talking about another bullpen arm, but I think the Sox are done in that department. The top four spots are locked; Jenks, Thorton, MacD, Aardsma. The next two spots will be earned by two of Boooone, Perez, Floyd, Sisco, and Haeger. Hell, Phillips might even have a shot at the LOOGY job. Oh, and then there's any NRIs brought in. The best part is, Floyd, Sisco and Haeger can be in Charlotte's rotation if they don't make the Sox pen.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Dec 17, 2006 -> 12:00 AM) Love the trade, KW's best deal of the off-season so far IMHO. And I wouldn't use Sisco as a reliever. Have him start the year off at Charlotte as a starter, and let Boone Logan or a FA pickup be used as the lefty reliever out of the pen. Because if Sisco can get his stuff back and succeed as a starter down at Charlotte, it gives us another potential young SP to put into the rotation. I like the KW comment about checking with Sisco about him working as a SP. Shows the sox are confident about his talent. With the comments about his poor work habits, getting in the guy's head a bit and getting him motivated seems like a necessary first step. No one can get the guy to work out, to take his job seriously. That has to come from him. But having a quality organization like the sox take a chance on him has to be a bit of a boost over staying with the royals in 2007.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Dec 16, 2006 -> 10:50 PM) FWIW, here's an article from BP talking about the trade and some of Sisco's behavior problems: http://www.baseballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=104 Sure doesn't sound like he and Ozzie will get along. But worst case scenario, he improves a bit on his horrible 2006 and the sox can get some value for him later in the year. A young LHP who can throw some heat has a greater upside and more trade value than a 30 yr old bench guy.

Here's a question--would you be willing to part with a package starting with top arms like Lance Broadway and Boone Logan [and a 'throw in' such as Tracey or Heath Phillips, and probably a position player prospect such as a C or SS] for Baldelli? Normally, I'd say no, with Broadway close to helping the sox. Yet getting Baldelli would allow the sox to make two additional moves that could get the sox prospects to replace the ones they trade--Pods could be moved, as well as Anderson. Anderson would be moved very early, say to the Marlins having an arm to replace Lance in AA/ on the cusp of AAA in a guy like Jose Garcia. Pods might and could stick around, depending on how Sweeney does in Spring, and how Baldelli looks in the leadoff spot. Pods could be moved come spring if another team has an injury to their leadoff guy. The key IMO would be getting a SP prospect in return for Anderson, to replace Lance.

An update. http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article...6&fext=.jsp If the Mets are offering a 5 yr, $70 mill. deal for Zito and not going beyond that, Zito will be pitching in Texas. In the article, Wilpon says the Mets are looking at trades with 2 or 3 teams. The sox are most likley one of those. Yet I can see the A's making a big push for Milledge and some arms.

QUOTE(mmmmmbeeer @ Dec 16, 2006 -> 02:06 AM) Chris James is the Braves' equivalent to BMAC. Would you trade Brandon AND prospects for Baldelli? I sure wouldn't. They're asking for too much. They have too many outfielders down in Tampa and unless they learn that no one outside of the Mets are going to overpay for one of their players, they'll continue to have a glut of young stud players sitting on their bunch or getting pissed off because they're still stuck in the minors. ATL isn't trading James. But if the Rockies have enough players to acquire Baldelli, the sox certainly could as well. If the sox have targeted Baldelli as their guy, the usually make the deal. Whether they will or not, who knows. But the D Rays should be familiar with the sox AA and AAA players, as the Drays have their minor league teams in the same divisions

QUOTE(Heads22 @ Dec 16, 2006 -> 12:15 AM) Valido also has the steroid issue. Wasn't that a pretty good case for testing positive for supplements, though?

Valido battled hand issues last yr, though and still would have to be considered a very good prospect. I'm not sure I'd want the sox to give him up, seeing how poor the sox are at SS in the minors. Valido's value would be pretty low in a trade, and probably more valuable to the sox if he's healthy in 2007

Found this blurb on what the Devil Rays are asking for Baldelli from the Denver Post: "Rocco Baldelli has been a primary target for the Rockies from the start of the offseason, but the Devil Rays would want two quality arms and a shortstop to give up the run-producing center fielder." I would suspect a quality SP and bullpen guy would count among the "two quality arms" and not necessarily two SP prospects. Robert Valido did go to school in FLA. And the sox could afford to part with two arms.

KW is pretty good friends with Omar, right. I'm inclined to believe that Omar knows Kw's asking price [which is better than what the Astros would have given for Javy, which was reported as the same as Garland] and could probably meet it. Any deal would have to include Pelfrey for the sox. If the mets would move Pelfrey soon, I'd expect them to put some whispers out in the media that he wasn't all that he was made out to be. Or at the least that he was replaceable with what they already have.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 14, 2006 -> 10:38 PM) If the White Sox are dealing away another starting pitcher, then they need a guy who is ready to step into the rotation right now. That means Pelfrey. And the Mets really don't want to give him up. And I would still love to get my hands on Lastings Milledge as a potential replacement for Podsednik, especially since he has no place on that Mets roster and the Mets veterans weren't to thrilled with his act last year (but which I think would work well alongside Ozzie, AJ, and our other guys) From looking at various mets boards, they seem inclined to think Pelfrey isn't the untouchable he once was. They seem to think one of the other pitchers like Maine, Humber, Perez etc would be able to step up as well.

With the Astros basically setting the "new" bar for trading SP's with the Jennings for Hirsh + deal, you have to think the Mets can and will offer a very good price if they want Vazquez. Seeing how bad their rotation is for a team with very realistic world series aspirations, the Mets should be looking to acquire a healthy innings eater like Javy. My question is, what is a realistic price in terms of talent? Who would or should the sox be asking for in a deal? And would it be enough for the sox to give up a guy who can throw 200 innings in his sleep, with room for improvement? IMO, Pelfrey would have to be included. He isn't the health risk that Humber is, and is ready to step into the 07 rotation. Heilman likely wouldn't be included as the Mets need him in their pen [and his crying about being a starter wouldn't fly with Ozzie]. If Pelfrey had a poor spring, Floyd or Haeger could be ready in his place. Also, I'd like the sox to get a top low level SP prospect. Deolis Guerra will turn 18 in april and will start in high A, probably ending the yr in AA. The young Venezuelan could replace the one the sox got rid of. Other peices would have to be included, as those two by themselves wouldn't be enough. Esp. as the sox don't need to move Javy. Only a deal that blows the sox out of the water--far better than the one the Astros got for Jennings. Thoughts?

QUOTE(shawnhillegas @ Dec 10, 2006 -> 04:25 PM) I think its all about return. If the Astros are willing to offer Hirsh, then the Mets need to be willing to deal Pelfrey or Humber if they want to make a deal with the Sox. I would consider the difference between Garland and Vazquez to be minimal, whichever deal brings the most back is the deal I'd take. I still think theres a shot the O's are willing to part with Daniel Cabrera too. I know hes a little bit older but hes one intimidating, hardthrowing dude. I think that's the key. Which SP gets the sox the return "they want", not necessarily the greatest return though. It's a subtle but big difference. One deal could get the sox set up for yrs--starting in 1, 2 yrs, though. Another could help the sox in 07 and for yrs down the road as well. It seems like the sox will make another move--as long as it helps the 2007 sox and the future. Any deal that weakens the 2007 in a drastic way will probably be scuttled.

QUOTE(SEALgep @ Dec 10, 2006 -> 02:50 PM) Pretty sure it was said by KW that the Yanks and Cards were not a match. But I guess you still never know... STL would have to include Reyes as the main peice. Other than that, they don't have much

QUOTE(RME JICO @ Dec 10, 2006 -> 01:19 PM) I would think Arizona, Houston, St. Louis and the Mets would be the primary teams, with others like the Rangers, Orioles, and Blue Jays. Houston lost Pettite and Backe, and probably Clemens for 2007. Those are some huge losses. St. Louis no longer has Marquis (no big loss) and Weaver (FA), so they seem pretty thin for World Series champs. You'd think St louis would have to consider Buehrle before Garland, though. Though with them wanting to repeat as champs, they may not want to wait until MB became a free agent next yr. The larger point of the sox letting teams know that Garland [the sox best trading chip, with a reasonable deal for 2 more yrs, young, durable] could be had would be for teams to come up with offers for all their SP's. Including MB.

It seems two prospects that teams were asking about from the dBacks were Dustin Nippert and Micah Owings. Don't know too much about them. http://www.azcentral.com/sports/diamondbac...dbacks1208.html

To answer my own question, by the looks of it, other teams who are looking for a top SP could include the Rangers, Mets, and Cardinals. With the talk about how the sox have heavily scouted the Rangers farm system, I could see the sox hooking up with them. And KW not too worried about seeing them in the playoffs. Re: the Mets, it was reported the sox asked for Humber and Heilman for Freddy. While it may have been too much for Freddy, it probably wouldn't be enough for Jon. Though Minaya would likely want Javy instead of Jon.

Cowley reports in this am's Sun times that the sox have been in contact with more than just the Astros, that the sox were just as close with 3 or 4 other teams besides the astros on a deal for Garland. http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/wh...T-sox10.article One of those would seem to be the DBacks. http://www.azcentral.com/sports/cheapseats...o/1208rant.html IMO, it seems that the sox put the word out that Garland could be dealt after trading Freddy. That means other teams can try and get a deal for Jon after the meetings. They come to KW and he can either yea or nea a deal. Or stand pat. There wasn't time to get a deal for Jon done as the sox dealt Freddy the night before they left I can't see the sox trading Garland to an AL team--why would KW want to help a team that the sox would likely have to face in the playoffs? But Besides the Astros and the DBacks who have reported interest--now it seems they've faded---what other teams may have been in on the discussions for Jon?

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Dec 8, 2006 -> 03:27 PM) Cmon now, people. I don't know which Runelvys several you have been watching, but starts against us club aside, he's no better than any soft-tossing scrub our minors may produce. There's really no use for him, at all. Runelvys isn't a soft tosser. The guy has far more upside than a AAAA scrub. At worst, they could turn him into a set up guy in AAA who could likely help the sox in 2007.

Ridiculous. These moves are about staying competitive for years not just a three yr run. Keeping all the SP's, all the position players no matter the cost, will make the sox run last far shorter than shoring up the pitching staff with top talent. Dye will likely depart after 2007. The sox have Sweeney probably ready to step in. Buerhle likely is a keeper--he's earned a 3, 4 yr deal. But these outrageous deals aren't going to last long. The money will come back down to earth Many teams are going to go broke and be rueing the day they signed mediocre guys to big money, long term deals. KW is ahead of the curve on this one.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Dec 8, 2006 -> 11:16 AM) I'm going to put this out there on Wells. The Sox are building with their young pitching. They are going to work more younger players like Sweeney and Fields eventually into the mix. That means if we're going to have a $100M payroll, we're going to have to spend it on someone. Is there a chance the Sox would rather sign a Vernon Wells to a bigger contract than say re-signing Jermaine Dye? Remote I know, but I'm trying to get an idea of what the future plans for this ballclub are. Apparently he wants a contract bigger than what Carlos Beltran got though, and if he has another season like he in 2006, he'll probably get it. I could see the sox spending a lot of money on a position player. However that player would have to be a guy who could hit leadoff. The sox have enough guys with pop. They need a guy who can hit for avg. and get on base, and preferably have speed. Wells, for that money, wouldn't be the kind of fit for the sox.