beck72

What other possible trading partners are out there, besides the Mets and Astros, who also would be in the market for Javy and have bullpen help? Texas? Cordero is in set up now--and he's had closer experience -----------------If these teams looked at Jeff WEaver, they should be interested in Javy Several teams eyeing Weaver July 5 Los Angeles Times (scroll down) (registration required): "The Dodgers, St. Louis Cardinals, San Diego Padres, New York Mets, Milwaukee Brewers, Boston Red Sox and Texas Rangers all are thought to have some interest. The Cincinnati Reds and Arizona Diamondbacks could consider Weaver too."

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 11:12 AM) I agree. I just don't see Houston trying to upgrade their rotation though. They still need more offense and if they're going to trade someone with good value like a Burke or a Qualls then I think it would be for some more offense. Bucholz has also started to pitch very, very well as of late and at least to me he is a pretty impressive pitcher. Like I said, I just don't see them trading for starting pitching but obviously I could be wrong. If the sox are willing to trade Javy or Freddy for top notch bullpen help, they probably will be able to get the best deal possible, whoever the trade partner is.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 11:04 AM) Another fit for Rob Machowiak, San Diego. Vinny Castilla currently has a .582 OPS and his would be replacement Mark Bellhorn only has a .701 OPS with a .199 BA. The price? How bout a reliever like Scott Cassidy? Just got demoted to AAA despite having a 2.79 ERA with a 42/17 K/BB ratio. This is only his 3rd full season in the majors as well which helps arbitration / contract wise. Another thing about all this--both Mack and JAvy are new guys. Trading them wouldn't affect the chemistry built in 2005.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 11:02 AM) True, but Houston doesn't need starting pitching help the way the Mets do. If these reports are true [which they probably are, as it's easy to confirm publicly the sox are calling clubs and saying what players are available], the sox can shop for the best deal. Either Javy or Freddy would be the best available SP this yr. for any team that needs help in the rotation QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 11:05 AM) Yeah they've got capable replacements in Fernando Nieve and Wandy Rodriguez (who I know has been terrible lately but he was good early). If anything, I'd thought they'd try to acquire another bat, offering Lane and prospects. Should go all out for Miggy Tejada. But Pettite and the other 2 SP's besides Oswalt and Clemens all have ERA's over 5.00. Better SP helps the offense. And strong pitching is Houston's M.O. With Clemens probably done after this yr, they'd also have Vazquez for two more yrs after this yr.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 10:58 AM) Ok so the N.Y Daily News is onto it; So that would be Sanchez and / or Heilman I am assuming (like I said earlier). EDIT: Would help if I read the whole article now; Which makes a Houston deal for Burke and Qualls more sensible

QUOTE(RibbieRubarb @ Jul 13, 2006 -> 10:55 PM) My question is why? http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/7057/news This would only make sense as part of a larger package, that would swap Burke and Mackowiak [who are near images of each other, very versatile type utility players] with guys like Chad Qualls and Javier Vazquez. Houston is last in the NL in BA, OBP and SLg vs RHP [but very strong vs LHP--5th in avg, 2nd in OBP, and 3rd in SLG]. Burke's splits vs RHP are poor, but strong vs LHP. Mackowiak's splits vs LHP are poor, but very strong vs RHP. The astros would be very familiar w/ Mack from his days at Pitt. Would a basic deal of Burke and Qualls for Mack and Javy work? I don't know. Houston is known to gamble and go for it [beltran deal], and may see a window to win w/ Clemens near the end of his career. But if the sox could get a decent 5th SP [like Tony Armas--will be a FA after this yr] why not.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 10:33 AM) Especially when there's really nothing wrong physically with Javy, it's all mental which is certainly fixable, it's just going to take time. The only question is whether or not Coop and Ozzie are able to or are willing to wait it out. With Javy's little "tantrums" on the mound when he doesn't get a call, they may not be willing to wait until he matures [which Javy is close to age 30, this shouldn't be an issue].

QUOTE(Capn12 @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 07:07 AM) So, am I way off base here in reading: 2006: ChiSox are only paying 7.5 mil of Javys salary this year 2007: ChiSox are only paying 6.5 mil of Javys salary this year I think that's about right. Vazquez at those numbers, locked up for three yrs [with him being arb. eligible in 2008 then he could be a free agent], would be decent for a team in need of an innings eater. He has value, esp. if you consider he'd be like signing a free agent. And judging at what other SP's have gotten-like Loaiza and his 3 yr deal for $8 mill per-Javy isn't that bad.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 05:53 AM) After seeing Houston trade for Huff, I can't really see them as sellers at the deadline, so the likes of Qualls will probably be staying put. If it's true the Sox were scouting Qualls in order to trade for him, the maybe/ are willing to give up current players on the 25 man roster [and I'm not just talking about bench guys]

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jul 13, 2006 -> 11:22 PM) Apples and oranges. Apples and f***ing oranges. You're talking about one guy who the Sox thought was going to throw 200 innings of a 4.00-4.50 ERA and another guy who the Sox though was going to hit 50 homers. Big difference than a reliever who's barely going to throw 70 innings a year... Sheesh... maybe Kenny should pull a Wayne Krisvky and trade two good young players (let's say, Brian Anderson and Juan Uribe) to Philly for a bunch of relievers. I'm sure they'd be willing to give us Arthur Rhodes AND Flash Gordon, along with eating a bunch of their salaries. Would that make ya happy, getting that 'veteran presence' into the bullpen? Relax pal.

QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 12:35 AM) why would the astros who just added Huff want to trade Burke or Qualls. they would only if the Astros wanted major league pieces back like Javy and Mackowiak.

Vazquez would only make sense if the Sox got a lock down set up guy in return [from whatever team, not just the MEts] and the sox were able to swing a deal for a #5. BMac isn't ready for the rotation this yr.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jul 13, 2006 -> 09:50 PM) Kent has a strained left Oblique, but according to the LAT was expected to be back in the lineup today. Mueller is out for the season in LA, but currently they're running with Izturis at 3rd. They also have some of their young guys capable of playing there. Izturis certainly isn't a power guy needed at 3B. IIRC, the guys from the minors aren't ready to play in the bigs right now. Yet LA would probably be one of the biggest suitors for Gordon and have a lot of prospects to trade [though they may need them to get the other holes filled].

I was thinking which teams would be looking at Gordon [besides the Yanks]. LA would need him the most. But they also have holes at 3b, their rotation and 2b [isn't Kent hurt?]. The yanks might be next. But they need a bat, and another SP. The sox ony real need is the bullpen.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jul 13, 2006 -> 12:02 AM) I just don't see how Philadelphia could sell Gordon for Broadway and lesser prospects to their paying customers. That's beyond a white flag trade. They are white flagging next season as well. If that's all it takes to get him, KW should have made this trade yesterday. One thing to remember is Gordon, if traded will be a veteran traded under a muti-year contract and IIRC may demand a trade after the season so he could go somewhere and close. You could get his contract off the books and pick up different prospects. Gordon is being mentioned in a lot of papers. Not all of them NY. The Philly papers seem to want to sell off anyone and everyone. Gordon is one of the few trading pieces who has value. Abreu and Burrell are strictly salary dumps

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jul 13, 2006 -> 12:05 AM) I don't think one trade sets the going rate for other players. Its individual teams that set the price for their players. Its a different regime in Tampa so you can't compare what they wanted last year, obviously totally unrealistic, and what they settled for this year. I should have put "Houston and TB set the going rate?" as a question more than a statement. Though I do think trends/ a market rate is set by other deals. Each yr is different. This yr teams may be more realistic about what they should expect by trading mediocre / veteran talent. Maybe not. We'll see when more deals are done.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Jul 12, 2006 -> 11:32 PM) The reason he went to Philly was 1) The 3 year deal, and 2) Spot to Close. Now, he is going to have the 3 year deal if he were to get traded, and now he gets traded to a contender, and is familiar with his surroundings. I would love Flash back with the Sox. I said it in the Rowand thread but a bullpen of... Thornton-Riske-7th Cotts-Flash-8th Jenks-9th It gives you alot of flexibility,you then have a shut down bullpen, and you still have Mac to fill in when need be. And the bullpen would be locked up for the next three years. Adding the veteran to the mix of Jenks, Cotts, Thornton, really makes sense. The bullpen is inexpensive, even with Flash, to offset the large salaries of the SP's [this of course with an offseason trade of Vazquez for prospects to put BMac into the rotation]. The difference in salaries between Flash and Javy [and no resigning Politte and Hermanson] can then pay for Crede's new contract. QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jul 12, 2006 -> 11:47 PM) I would love Gordon. It would also give the Sox an All Star closer if Jenks was unavailable or injured. I think the price to get him will be steep. I agree his acquisition would make the White Sox bullpen go from questionable at least in my mind, to a strength, something you probably need since the starters appear tired and probably won't be able to deliver the desired innings the second half. If you could pawn off Vazquez, that's even better. This guy hasn't been that strong post All Star break the past couple of seasons. His homerun allowed rate is down, chances are its going to go up, and so will his ERA if that is possible. It will be interesting to see if KW pulls the trigger on something major in the next few weeks. The quotes from Ozzie seem to indicate something is going to happen. Last year he kept saying he didn't want anything, and now he's talking about the asking price which indicates there has been shopping going on. Could a deal involving Broadway plus be considered steep for Gordon? QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Jul 10, 2006 -> 12:50 PM) Getting Gordon in this pen would be huge, but there is no reason Philly cant ask for a kings ransom for him, and im not sure its worth paying that. Fields, no. Anderson,no Mac,no.Sweeney,no. Would that be a yes for a Broadway? I could see Philly liking a solid SP prospect close to major league ready. Esp. seeing how many AA guys have started this yr in the majors for NL teams, including Mathieson from the Phills.

QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Jul 12, 2006 -> 10:49 PM) I would of thought Huff could at least land one good prospect instead of a couple of fringe prospects. I thought so too. If it really is an "inflated" market, I would have expected more than two avg at best major leaguers. I guess this is what one could expect to realistically pay for Huff. QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Jul 12, 2006 -> 11:13 PM) Weren't the Tigers interested in Huff? Who will they go after now? Were they looking for someone for LF or 3b? I know they want a lefty bat though.

Aubrey Huff was traded for 2 AA players--a 23 yr old RHP Mitch Talbot and a 25 yr old SS, Ben Zobrist. According to BA's 2006 Prospect Handbook, Talbot was Houston's 26th best prospect and Zobrist #16. Zobrist could be an everyday SS but more likely looks to be a utility guy. Talbot needs a 3rd pitch. Both are having good seasons, putting up good stats. But their long term outlooks aren't all that high I compare these two players to the Sox' Chris Getz and Sean Tracey, though BA has Tracey #11 and Getz #15. [FWIW-BA has the sox as the 12th best system and Houston as the 20th]. The sox players may be worth a bit more. Huff will be a free agent in 2007. Houston may try to re-sign him w/ Ensberg struggling, and Huff's ability to play LF,[ which could net them draft picks]. Houston is going for it, with it being Roger's "last year". This trade may be a barometer of what to expect this yr. as the sox look to add pieces. Thoughts on whether this is too much, too little, just right for a guy like Huff?

Has anyone confirmed this "possible trade" being anywhere in print or online?

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jul 11, 2006 -> 12:41 PM) Looking at both organizations, a Broadway and possible fringe prospect for Gordon probably makes the most sense. Broadway should be our main trading chip at the deadline. Despite the thoughts of some here on ST, SP is actually our most stocked position in the minors. Losing Broadway wouldn't hurt at all to win now when you've got the likes of Lumsden, Harrell etc. performing well. Philly needs good young arms. Looking at their current rotation, Jon Lieber and Corey Lidle probably won't be back. They've got Scott Mathieson and Gio Gonzalez in the minors, but not much else besides Gavin Floyd who's been struggling. This is the quandry right here, and the million dollar question for our GM right here. Do you want to trade prospects right now to improve this ballclub, and hope Javy gets it together (which looking at the case of Contreras could very well happen), or do you want to trade Javy now and move B-Mac into the rotation? There's pro's and con's for each side of the argument. Vazquez to the Phils? Their SP is the worst in the NL. And their bullpen is 3rd best. Ryan Madson would be solid--young and cheap. Though the sox might have to add an arm or take on salary Whether it's trading prospects or major leaguers, the sox have been good judges of their own talent. I trust the sox to make the right choice come the deadline

Sox castoffs like Adkins, Rauch and Majewski all have sub 4 ERA's in the NL. Politte would get some looks and return someone useful to the sox-if not someone for this yr's team then for a prospect

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jul 11, 2006 -> 12:12 PM) I don't want anyone to think I've given up on Javy because I haven't, but he's definitely one of my main worries going into the 2nd half. As far as Mac goes, I agree that's he's better suited for the rotation but I doubt that's going to happen this year but next year...yes. I'm actually pretty happy with what we got in the pen. We got a good(not great) bullpen but the back end of our bullpen I'll put up against anyone's. To be honest, I think the bullpen is set for the rest of the year minus maybe the addition of Dustin Hermanson. That being said, if we could add Flash some how, that makes our bullpen one of, if not the best in all of baseball. Like I said though, I think we're done acquiring bullpen help but that's jmo. I'm not that concerned about Javy myself. But Ozzie, Coop and Kenny may be. They may decide BMac could make the adjustment to the rotation better than Javy improving, while adding pieces elsewhere [bullpen, prospects] by trading Javy

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jul 11, 2006 -> 11:03 AM) I don't think there is a person here who wouldn't want Flash but obviously price is the key. To be honest, the bullpen doesn't worry me much. It definitely would be nice to get a right hander like Gordon but I have no problem at all throwing Neal and Matt out there in the 7th and 8th innings no matter who is hitting. The starting pitching is still my biggest concern, I have confidence in 3 starters going into the 2nd half(Count, Mark and Jon) the other two worry me a bit. I know Vazquez has been doing worse lately. He might still turn it around. But if the sox don't think he can turn it around ala Contreras and Thorton, they might be better off dealing him now before his value is nil in the offseason. BMac might be better off suited for the rotation from here on out [not just going by his last 4+ innings vs Boston]. He seems to need the regular work as a SP, as his inconsistent outings in the pen show. The Sox would need a solid bullpen piece in return though. IIRC, Vazquez's no-trade is gone and could be dealt anywhere. A few teams come to mind that could be partners [Dodgers, Astros]. Lidge for Vazquez? Broxton + from LA?

While this may seem like a Gordon for Fields thread, it really isn't. My main point is that if Philly has Gordon on the block, the Sox should go after him. [i see getting a lock down RH set up man as the key to the 2nd half and playoffs--the SP will come around. Also having Gordon could be vital IF Jenks went down. Jenks goes down and so do the sox chances of repeating]. Seeing how the Thome trade worked well for both teams, the good will could exist to work on another deal [not necessarily involving Fields]. Fields is the sox top prospect-hands down. Yet there are other pieces that could be a fit for Philly in a potential trade. Sweeney and Broadway have been mentioned.