beck72

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Mar 31, 2006 -> 04:44 PM) I hate to say it but that rumored Dye + Contreras for Abreu + Gavin Floyd trade wouldn't look too bad right now either, minus Abreu's salary of course. Gavin Floyd had a great spring and is now the Phillies' 5th starter. They pushed Ryan Franklin to the pen because they think Gavin Floyd has finally "found it." [ Can you imagine the uproar if one of the SP's were hurt, and KW had traded Jose? This board would be going crazy. As it is, a lot of people are upset that KW didn't have a back up plan for Hermanson

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Mar 31, 2006 -> 04:34 PM) He didn't just overlook it, he pissed away the depth we had there. Trading for Vazquez is fine and dandy, but if your going to give up 2/6th's of our pen and lose another 1/3rd do to injury I expect to see quality replacements brought in. I have no problem developing a guy or so to start the seaosn or even 2 if we had 4 quality relievers that are proven, but this many, its flat out ridiculous. In this day and age bullpens are a key to not only making the playoffs but winning in the playoffs and I fear we will be blowing games left and right and well our farm system doesn't exactly have the depth to go out and acquire 3 GOOD relievers and hell possibly a closer. A few things: The Marte deal was insurance in case a few position players went down--Crede, Pods, Dye, Anderson goes bust. Seeing how no one trusted Marte, and he wasn't getting in games at the end, getting 8 guys to fill his specialist spot made sense. Much was made of Logan making it, but he earned the spot. A slight downgrade, intially. Yet probably an upgrade by season's end. Vazquez for Vizcaino could be debated. But BMac replaced Viz, and strengthened the rotation. An upgrade IMO. The only spot KW didn't fill was a backup for Hermanson. His outlook was decent, though, by all accounts. That's the biggest gripe. But there were few guys like Hermanson [set up/ closer] available this offseason. And it didn't make sense at the time.

In essence, you are saying the sox should have kept Luis Vizcaino as Hermanson insurance. Maybe that's the fault you could find with KW's moves. Yet it was probably the only way to swing getting Vazquez. IMO, the Sox are better with Vazquez in the rotation and BMac in the bullpen than having El Duque and Luis. [You are technically correct about BMac being a rookie. Yet he showed remarkable poise like a veteran late last year--he's certainly not a worry of mine helping out in the bullpen]. I liken McCarthy's role in the sox bullpen to that of Scot Shields. I don't expect him to replicate Shields success. Yet he should be able to approach 2/3 of what Shields can do--a mid 3.00 ERA, 80-90 IP, close to 5-10 wins, 5-10 saves. What else should have KW done, though, with the FA market outrageous [and not very good besides the few overpriced guys]? You didn't say what moves you would have made. You can mark me down as saying the bullpen will work out fine [barring two, three injuries of course]. The current cast of characters should hold up fine until the trade deadline and the sox can get reinforcements.

QUOTE(R.J. @ Mar 31, 2006 -> 09:33 AM) See I agree with you, or at least, I don't see why a team with bad pitching and an admittedly weak farm system would try and trade a first round pitcher with good (really good) stuff, and especially try and trade him for what we'd most likely offer them, more offensive players. But hey, if they really have soured on him to the point that they'd move him at this moment when his value is as low as its been, let's give it a shot. Can't hurt. (Unless he costs us Sweeney, Fields, Owens, or Liotta.) The Reds may be thinking they could deal him now while he still has "potential". Another yr of a 6.11 ERA and the Reds could expect little to nothing in return. The question is, are Wagner's problems fixable? From the sounds of his scouting reports, he seems to be worth a gamble. The sox do have the depth to deal prospects like Rogowski and Tracey, esp. as the sox bullpen prospects in the high minors are weak From BA's 2004 Prospect Handbook, the Reds #1 Prospect-- 'Wagner's 84-87 mph slider is downright unhittable and grades as a top of the scouting scale 80 pitch at times. It features sharp, late tilt in the zone and darts away from the barrel of the bat. Hitters have a difficult time identifying his slider, and often think it's a splitter or a true curveball because of its depth. Wagner isn't a one trick pony, however. His FB sits at 91-94 mph and fetaures hard sink and boring action to induce groundballs. His fastball movement is so good that hitters will have a tough time laying off his slider and sitting on his fastball. He showed enough resilency and durability to work multiple inning stints for Houston. Though he rarely needs it, Wagner shows a feel for an average changeup, leading some scouts to think he could hold down a rotation spot. Not many scouts project him as a starter, however because his delivery and arm action might not be conducive to a rotation workload. While he'll drop his arm slot at times to create more movement on his FB, that also causes additional stress on his shoulder--even more than when he relies heavily on his slider. The Reds would like him to become more consistent w/ his slot and repeating his delivery. Following Wagner's promotion to the majors, the reds discussed moving him to the rotation in 2004, but they now seem content to groom him as their future closer. College closers don't often duplicate their success in the majors but there's little doubt Wagner can overmatch hitters at any level. If he's not Cincy's closer coming out of spring training, he'll be one of the better set up men in the NL.'

QUOTE(LosMediasBlancas @ Mar 30, 2006 -> 02:44 PM) Not just because we ned him so badly, but he really seems to have the right attitude, is saying all the right things and is performing well so far. http://www.suntimes.com/output/sox/cst-spt-sox30.html I'm rooting for him as well. Hopefully he can last awhile. Any outs Boone can give the sox would be a great bonus.

To further make the Shields--BMac comparison, Shields threw 2+ innings 18 times during the reg. season, and 4 times in the playoffs; he had 10 wins and 7 saves. If Bmac can give the sox the 90+ innings that Shields went, I wonder how many innings the rest of the bullpen would have to go, factoring in how deep the starters go? That would certainly save the other guys from throwing a lot, particularly Neal and Cliff. The sox starters should at least equal the innings they went last yr, with El Duque not going as deep as the others.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Mar 30, 2006 -> 04:52 AM) http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sp...ack=1&cset=true Even with Hermie's injury and some drop off expected from CLiff and Neal, I think the sox bullpen will be stronger than last yrs. For one, BMac could be a Scot Shields--a one man bridge from the SP's to Jenks. I could also see him coming in for the 8th and closing games out. Secondly, Jenks as closer for the entire yr could keep the bullpen roles clear. Third, one of the two new lefties should take over Cott's 2005 role as lefty specialist. That pushes Neal into the 7th and 8th inning set up role, where he faces both lefties and righties.

QUOTE(AddisonStSox @ Mar 30, 2006 -> 01:16 AM) In the end, I think Williams, Hahn, and co. are thinking along those lines as well; so, my guess is this is all moot. Thornton has been looking awfully better. Even when he was having those rough outings, he still appeared to make some nice pitches in some tough spots. I'm ready to go. Play ball. No doubt. I'm ready to go as well. I love this time of year--Waiting for opening day and seeing a player break out and surprise with improvement. I'm just glad the Sox don't need as many guys to have surprise, break out years

QUOTE(JimH @ Mar 30, 2006 -> 12:43 AM) What some of you guys were saying has turned out to be true ... lots of bullpen guys are available at the end of spring training. The sox would be well served trying to get a project bullpen guy [like a Thornton with AAA options], and hope he can help if someone goes down rather than a veteran to start with the sox. Have the guy start off in AAA or even AA, converting a SP to reliever. I wonder if that's the plan for Sean Tracey, in AAA.

Even as I am on the look out for arms to help the sox, I get the sneaky suspicion none of these guys mentioned are the answer. I know no one is expecting these castoffs to help the sox more than Politte, Cotts or Jenks. And that these names are being thrown about in case of injuries these guys. But watching BMac, Logan and Thornton throw today, I came away feeling much better about how the sox bullpen is shaping up. BMac should be nasty coming from the pen with his 3 strong pitches. And if one of Logan or Thornton can pull a Vizcaino [eat innings,keep the sox in games and get a big out occasionally, all with an under 4.00 ERA] the sox should be in good shape.

QUOTE(Jimbo's Drinker @ Mar 29, 2006 -> 05:21 PM) I was saying if the giants needed a trade for a useless 40 year old, we got NOMO Gotcha

QUOTE(Jimbo's Drinker @ Mar 29, 2006 -> 05:03 PM) Hello, Hideo Nomo. I'm thinking someone with late inning experience. Walker closed games for SF. Nomo hasn't pitched in relief.

From today's Baltimore Sun: "Possible targets could include Detroit's Franklyn German, San Francisco's Tyler Walker, Pittsburgh's Ryan Vogelsong, Boston's Matt Ginter, Cleveland's Steve Karsay and the Los Angeles Angels' Kevin Gregg - all right-handers potentially available." If the sox added someone, they'd likely have to have a track record with some current Sox players, as they could vouch for that players ability to help the sox. Vogelson [mackowiak], And Tyler Walker [Hermanson, AJ] fit that bill. If the sox had any 40 yr olds to trade to SF, Walker would be a decent pickup for Hermy's late inning role.

Here's another guy out there as AAA back up, Colter Bean. Though the Yanks may not be in the mood to help the sox with anything. The guy has thrown over 70 and 80 innings in the bullpen for the last 2 yrs, with over a K per inning, with good control. Bean may be a AAAA type, ala Bajaneru. http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/B/colter-bean.shtml

It would make a lot of sense to get like one or two of these guys [12th reliever types] for AAA. Now's the time to pick up a guy. The trade deadline is pretty far off and any help for the Sox MLB team must come from the minors. Lopez is one nice option for the bullpen. But Hermanson shouldn't be counted on. Esp. someone to groom for closer. I don't know who is set to close for Charlotte. Of course, the sox could use a SP like Liotta or Broadway as a last resort--esp. as they can throw more than 1 inning and pitch to both lefties and righties.

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Mar 26, 2006 -> 06:41 PM) Hmm, any chance we trade to get Vizcaino back? That's sarcastic, but yet not at the same time. I wouldn't discount it. Esp as Viz is due $1.75 mill, and the Dbacks have a lot of options in the bullpen now.

If Thornton can eat innings, he would be a huge pickup. Good to hear and see some progress on this front.

QUOTE(YASNY @ Mar 25, 2006 -> 11:50 AM) That's difficult to answer with questions aboiut Cruz's attitude toward relieving hanging over him. If he goes into a pout because he's not starting, we don't need him. Very true. I think the Sox usually do a good job looking into a player's background before getting them. At least the last few years KW and co. have done a good job. If Cruz is a headcase, the sox wouldn't want him. And they should be able to find out. While we fans might not see it, major league baseball is a rather small little fraternity. People move around so much, there is always someone who knows about another players background and makeup

Question though--Would people be willing to part with Jerry Owens for Cruz? It seems like the sox aren't as high on Owens as they should be [esp. after his 2005 season]. If Owens' defense isn't what it should be, and doesn't project as anything more than a LFer, trading Alex Escobar for Cruz, in essence, could make sense. With Ryan Sweeney's development, I don't see Owens helping the sox in 2006. And how many rookies come in as a leadoff man on a team with world series hopes for 2007? I say this knowing that Owens for Cruz would prob. favor the A's. But if the A's threw in a prospect in the 11-20 range, say a pitcher, then....

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Mar 24, 2006 -> 06:02 PM) I'd give up Broadway in a heartbeat. Not me. Only Broadway and Liotta are the SP prospects near ready to help the sox.

Re: Jenks If he was hurt, that would be more of a concern. He couldn't throw his curve ball for strikes. That should come around Re: Iguchi He should top his .278 avg from 2005. He'll be fine, whether he hits in the #2 hole or lower. With Cintron around, Iguchi will get a lot of rest.

Not that taking the odd man out for the Reds last bullpen job would be an upgrade over what the sox have, but here are some names: Danny Graves, Steve Karsay, Jason Davis or Andruw Brown. http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/sports/14157490.htm Never mind My bad. I thought for some reason these guys were with the Reds. I knew Davis sounded familiar.

QUOTE(jphat007 @ Mar 22, 2006 -> 02:02 AM) Absolutely. Reliever prices both in FA and trades are off the wall. Looks like little to no help from outside the sox organization for the bullpen anyways. I can't imagine what a decent SP would cost.

QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Mar 22, 2006 -> 01:49 AM) Id rather have a guy like Tracey in our bullpen than this scrub. I'd have liked to see Ray Liotta given more of a chance. He can throw strikes. Though someone posted that Phil Rogers in the new BA thinks Liotta could be called up mid yr ala Buerhle.

From the Contra Costra Times: http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctime...cs/14149209.htm "With the Seattle Mariners trading reliever Matt Thornton to the Chicago White Sox for outfielder Joe Borchard, the Sox interest in A's reliever Juan Cruz has diminished considerably, a person familiar with the talks said Monday. The A's were said to be interested in minor-league outfielder Brian Anderson. However, the A's, who are concerned about Jay Witasick's poor spring, might decide to keep Cruz as insurance..." I guess the A's can ask all they want. I would have liked to been a fly on the wall of KW's office, after he got off the phone with Beane.